Air France to charge the Obese

[Ciscokid]

I think there's a line between the reasonable business interest of recouping the cost of carrying additional weight and wanting to punish / embarrass / humiliate and/or generally make life difficult for obese people. It doesn't really matter whether it's the result of willful overeating or an underactive thyroid, does it?

So what's fair to you, paying %50 for the other ticket or %25 or what?

I don't see how they are being humiliated or punished, I'm not sure what you mean by that. If the flight isn't fully booked they don't get charged extra at all.

 

[Alceste]

So what's fair to you, paying %50 for the other ticket or %25 or what?

I don't see how they are being humiliated or punished, I'm not sure what you mean by that. If the flight isn't fully booked they don't get charged extra at all.

What I said earlier seems fair - a portion of the seats are 25% or 50% wider, based on the average proportion of overweight passengers. These seats cost 25 to 50% more, and if you don't book them in advance you pay a much higher rate at the check-in for a mandatory upgrade.

 

[Tiapan]

All postage is by weight so why not?
Does this mean you get a discount if you are skinny?

Cheers

 

[Ciscokid]

What I said earlier seems fair - a portion of the seats are 25% or 50% wider, based on the average proportion of overweight passengers. These seats cost 25 to 50% more, and if you don't book them in advance you pay a much higher rate at the check-in for a mandatory upgrade.

If there are no obese passengers at all? Thin folks still have to pay the extra cost?

 

[Humanistheart]

Apparently obese people who cannot fit into one seat will have to purchase 2. My local news is claiming that this is discrimination against fat people? What do you think?

Personally, discrimination should be a motivation to lose some weight and be healthy.

Article: Air France-KLM to charge obese flyers almost double

How could that possibly be discrimination? If they take up two seats they should pay for two seats. I'm tired of squeezing into my own chair because other people can't fit theirs!

 

[Alceste]

If there are no obese passengers at all? Thin folks still have to pay the extra cost?

Nope. If the skinny seats are full and the fat seats are undersold, you can wrangle a free upgrade, just as they do now with first class. I've been upgraded to first class more than once.

 

[Alceste]

How could that possibly be discrimination? If they take up two seats they should pay for two seats. I'm tired of squeezing into my own chair because other people can't fit theirs!

But they don't take up "two seats". Maybe a seat 10 to 20 % wider would accommodate most of them comfortably. 50 % wider for the extreme cases.

Anyway, when I win the lotto I'll launch the "fair to fat people" airline of my dreams. Until then, it's Air France's business what they do.

I would like to point out, though, that the ruthless ticket price competition has caused most airlines to trim and trim and trim the seat proportions to squeeze more people into the plane so they can compete. Maybe this is time to pay the piper. I'm not fat at all, but I'm pretty tall for a chick and I am damn sick of having my knees jammed up against the seat in front of me everywhere I go. Airlines will have to learn to accommodate different body types. Either that or talk us into being anaesthetised and stacked up like logs.

 

[MissAlice]

What I can't get is how people can be so fat enough to take up 2 seats unless the seats are built to only fit a certain size because it's cheaper?


What they should just do is make an air line that comes in extra size....

They could call it Le' Obèse Air France.

 

[DallasApple]

What I can't get is how people can be so fat enough to take up 2 seats unless the seats are built to only fit a certain size because it's cheaper?


What they should just do is make an air line that comes in extra size....

They could call it Le' Obèse Air France.

I would hope the standard to build the seats would be based on an average height man at a "healthy weight".But as has been mentioned not everyone who is taller than that or weighed more than they should would be the problem.

For example Im 5'2 and would be considered "obese" at starting at about 145lbs and I dont think I would have a problem fitting in an airline seat without spilling over to the next seat or needing to use the seat belt fastener of the seat next to me at that height and weight.But if I weighed 200 llbs I think I would.But if you take a person who is 5'9 that weighs 200lbs albeit they are overweight because of the height they are more poroportioned and I wouldnt imagine them spilling over into the next seat.

I think its just they can only go so far obviously and more and more people these days it seems are in what you call the "morbid " obese catergory.

My BIL has a relative that is about 6'3 but he weighs 450lbs(Im not trying to be mean Im serious he woudl need 3 seats ).My other(EX) BIL is 6ft tall and weighs about 300lbs.My sons ex-grilfreind 5"11 350lbs..a close friend of my sisters..again tall for even a man 6'ft but over 300lbs...I mean and I dont live in a camp for the obese and I personally know that many big people .(very big people).

I would venture to suggest thats why its even on the table for airlines is that its a growing % of the clientale.If it was a "rare" occurence to have to accomaodate I think it wouldnt be biting into the profits significantly enough to even raise a stink about.

Because its a delicate topic and feelings are involoved I dont think they would want to appear "insensitive" if it wasnt causing a real issue as far as expense as well as Im sure they have to deal with "unhappy" thin or normal size peoples complaints about being squished.

Love

Dallas

 

[MissAlice]

Yes I would hate to the idea of being squarshed by big fat biggn' especially if he or she hadn't had a shower.

Now that would be my nightmare of traveling.
Besides the seats I wonder how they fit into those little bathrooms without breaking anything...

 

[Alceste]

I would hope the standard to build the seats would be based on an average height man at a "healthy weight".But as has been mentioned not everyone who is taller than that or weighed more than they should would be the problem.

For example Im 5'2 and would be considered "obese" at starting at about 145lbs and I dont think I would have a problem fitting in an airline seat without spilling over to the next seat or needing to use the seat belt fastener of the seat next to me at that height and weight.But if I weighed 200 llbs I think I would.But if you take a person who is 5'9 that weighs 200lbs albeit they are overweight because of the height they are more poroportioned and I wouldnt imagine them spilling over into the next seat.

I think its just they can only go so far obviously and more and more people these days it seems are in what you call the "morbid " obese catergory.

My BIL has a relative that is about 6'3 but he weighs 450lbs(Im not trying to be mean Im serious he woudl need 3 seats ).My other(EX) BIL is 6ft tall and weighs about 300lbs.My sons ex-grilfreind 5"11 350lbs..a close friend of my sisters..again tall for even a man 6'ft but over 300lbs...I mean and I dont live in a camp for the obese and I personally know that many big people .(very big people).

I would venture to suggest thats why its even on the table for airlines is that its a growing % of the clientale.If it was a "rare" occurence to have to accomaodate I think it wouldnt be biting into the profits significantly enough to even raise a stink about.

Because its a delicate topic and feelings are involoved I dont think they would want to appear "insensitive" if it wasnt causing a real issue as far as expense as well as Im sure they have to deal with "unhappy" thin or normal size peoples complaints about being squished.

Love

Dallas

That's exactly it - there seems to be a desire to punish, embarrass or humiliate fat people underlying a lot of these comments that is totally unnecessary.

You know a lot of obese people because one in three Americans is obese according to the World Health Organization. In Canada it's only one in ten, so in a way you DO live in a special compound for fat people.

 

[DallasApple]

That's exactly it - there seems to be a desire to punish, embarrass or humiliate fat people underlying a lot of these comments that is totally unnecessary.

You know a lot of obese people because one in three Americans is obese according to the World Health Organization. In Canada it's only one in ten, so in a way you DO live in a special compound for fat people.

Yeah and I didnt even name them all.And I love them they are my friends and family.Its just once you get into the 300 + range it can cause some seating problems and not even just on an ariplane unless you are 7 or 8ft tall which is not the case.

So I do live in a compound for the heavy people?That would explain it.There must be something in the meat and Im not kidding I have wondered.My youngest son who is 13 is 5'9 already and weighs 200 lbs.My oldest is 6'3 and weighs 250lbs at least he is done "growing he is 27)..Their feet?Their feet are bigger than both mine put together and then some.They started getting big at around 8 or 9..I dont think they ran around in the yard enough.Like we did when we were little.My middle son is 20 and he is "overweight" but not "BIG)..He's 5'8 and about 190..

So Im sensitive to it myself because my own kids are "big people".I mean they tower and out weigh my husband and I by a lot.

Im 5'2 and weigh 120lbs and I feel like I need to lose 5 or 10 lbs.(well I probably do on the BMI index)..

Oh well Im rambling..

Love

Dallas

 

[Alceste]

Yeah and I didnt even name them all.And I love them they are my friends and family.Its just once you get into the 300 + range it can cause some seating problems and not even just on an ariplane unless you are 7 or 8ft tall which is not the case.

So I do live in a compound for the heavy people?That would explain it.There must be something in the meat and Im not kidding I have wondered.My youngest son who is 13 is 5'9 already and weighs 200 lbs.My oldest is 6'3 and weighs 250lbs at least he is done "growing he is 27)..Their feet?Their feet are bigger than both mine put together and then some.They started getting big at around 8 or 9..I dont think they ran around in the yard enough.Like we did when we were little.My middle son is 20 and he is "overweight" but not "BIG)..He's 5'8 and about 190..

So Im sensitive to it myself because my own kids are "big people".I mean they tower and out weigh my husband and I by a lot.

Im 5'2 and weigh 120lbs and I feel like I need to lose 5 or 10 lbs.(well I probably do on the BMI index)..

Oh well Im rambling..

Love

Dallas

Yes, there is something in the meat. (I just read The End of Food, so that's where the following comments are coming from.) Most of what we eat is processed to until much of its natural flavour is lost. To replace this lost yumminess, food manufacturers rely almost entirely on three additives: fat, sugar and salt. Quite a lot of commercial food contains all three, and all three make you fat.

The human body evolved during cycles of food scarcity and as a result of this, holds onto any fat it can get its hooks into as a kind of "snack" for times of famine. We also evolved to eat a very small amount of meat - about a twentieth of what the average American eats today.

Apart from the meat, there's the problem of high-fructose corn syrup. I can't remember the exact details, but the most commonly used sweetener in most of our food is one that does not penetrate the part of our brain that tells us whether or not we are satisfied, or "full". So we tend to consume endless amounts of sweets and sugary drinks because we never get that message. Unfortunately, it's also a type that the body can not metabolize very well, and makes us fat.

I don't know why Americans are getting fatter than Canadians though - we get a lot of the same products, but I don't know anyone who isn't into some kind of physical activity. Even my 90 year old grandma potters around in the garden all day. So maybe that helps. I also don't know a lot of people (besides teenagers) who like to drink pop. (We prefer beer. )

 

[Humanistheart]

But they don't take up "two seats". Maybe a seat 10 to 20 % wider would accommodate most of them comfortably. 50 % wider for the extreme cases.

If they take up more than their seat, which they do, my statment stands. So you want to accomidate obese individuals? The entire plane system should be redesigned because some people can't put down the twinkies? What next, would you like extra spacing between the chairs for women with big boobs so they don't bump people getting in and out? Perhaps the mirrors in the bathroom's can be removed for the ugly people? Hey I'm bald, maybe they can do complimentary surgery in the coach section or pass out tupee's for us. Sheesh.

 

[Alceste]

If they take up more than their seat, which they do, my statment stands. So you want to accomidate obese individuals? The entire plane system should be redesigned because some people can't put down the twinkies? What next, would you like extra spacing between the chairs for women with big boobs so they don't bump people getting in and out? Perhaps the mirrors in the bathroom's can be removed for the ugly people? Hey I'm bald, maybe they can do complimentary surgery in the coach section or pass out tupee's for us. Sheesh.

There's that needless maliciousness. "Some people can't put down twinkies". Jeez. What's a fat person ever done to you? There are a lot of reasons a person's weight might get out of control, a lot of them medical. I would accommodate obese individuals because it makes good business sense in a country whereone in ten potential passengers is obese, and because I can charge a premium for extra-wide seats and make some money.

 

[DallasApple]

Yes, there is something in the meat. (I just read The End of Food, so that's where the following comments are coming from.) Most of what we eat is processed to until much of its natural flavour is lost. To replace this lost yumminess, food manufacturers rely almost entirely on three additives: fat, sugar and salt. Quite a lot of commercial food contains all three, and all three make you fat.

The human body evolved during cycles of food scarcity and as a result of this, holds onto any fat it can get its hooks into as a kind of "snack" for times of famine. We also evolved to eat a very small amount of meat - about a twentieth of what the average American eats today.

Apart from the meat, there's the problem of high-fructose corn syrup. I can't remember the exact details, but the most commonly used sweetener in most of our food is one that does not penetrate the part of our brain that tells us whether or not we are satisfied, or "full". So we tend to consume endless amounts of sweets and sugary drinks because we never get that message. Unfortunately, it's also a type that the body can not metabolize very well, and makes us fat.

I don't know why Americans are getting fatter than Canadians though - we get a lot of the same products, but I don't know anyone who isn't into some kind of physical activity. Even my 90 year old grandma potters around in the garden all day. So maybe that helps. I also don't know a lot of people (besides teenagers) who like to drink pop. (We prefer beer. )

Maybe thats why Im "thin"..I rpefer dark chocolate and beer for a snack."Captan Crunch " repulses me.

I never let my kids drink coke but I gave them a lot of orange juice .(Floridas natural)..

Here is the "weird thing" ..I have put on 10lbs (suddenly) and I dont want much meat.

My granmother too!!! She is here now from out of town(she turned 96 in Nov)..She wants to eat a salad with no dressing like lettuce tomatos totally blank..with of all things CORN bread and BUTTERMILK.

She is driving my mother up the wall.she wants to eat fruit too but Mama got her bananas and pears and apples..Then she will say "I want some GRAPES and you dont have any)..LOL!!!

Mama said "just give me a bolagna sandwich and I wont complain" ...

Grandmother MADE me drink buttermilk last night ..Its was sour but not too bad.

She must know what she is doing so I cant argue with her.

Love

Dallas

 

[Humanistheart]

There's that needless maliciousness. "Some people can't put down twinkies". Jeez. What's a fat person ever done to you? There are a lot of reasons a person's weight might get out of control, a lot of them medical..

That's a common misconception these days. Much more people are obese from the way they live than from any medical problem. If medical issues were a leading cause you'd see obesity around the world as a problem. But no, america's the only nation that's dumb enough to call obesity an epidemic. Imagine telling your grandchildren about the great obesity epidemic of 2010. Oh it was terrible suzie, there were pork chops and doritoes everywhere! Come on.

I would accommodate obese individuals because it makes good business sense in a country whereone in ten potential passengers is obese, and because I can charge a premium for extra-wide seats and make some money.

Then what are you doing here? Run! Go start that buiness! And why stop with fat people, by not cater to the ugly, the bald, the extra busty? Maybe a seperate plane for children, lets face it, we all hate children on flights! Oh, you hadn't thought about helping other's with problems besides obesity? That's descrimination! Ughly people unite!

 

[Alceste]

That's a common misconception these days. Much more people are obese from the way they live than from any medical problem. If medical issues were a leading cause you'd see obesity around the world as a problem. But no, america's the only nation that's dumb enough to call obesity an epidemic. Imagine telling your grandchildren about the great obesity epidemic of 2010. Oh it was terrible suzie, there were pork chops and doritoes everywhere! Come on.

Did I say it was "a leading cause"? Or "THE cause"? Did I offer any opinion at all as to what proportion of people have weight problems due to diet as opposed to medical conditions? No. I simply pointed out that your hostility is unwarranted. Even if only one in a thousand obese people has a medical reason for it, you do not know whether the individual you are dealing with falls into that category.

One in three Americans is obese - I can understand why people would call it an "epidemic."

S: (adj) epidemic (especially of medicine) a disease or anything resembling a disease; attacking or affecting many individuals in a community or a population simultaneously

S: (n) disease an impairment of health or a condition of abnormal functioning

Then what are you doing here? Run! Go start that buiness! And why stop with fat people, by not cater to the ugly, the bald, the extra busty? Maybe a seperate plane for children, lets face it, we all hate children on flights!

Yeah, you got a plane you want to sell me for... let's see here... forty bucks?

 

[DallasApple]

That's a common misconception these days. Much more people are obese from the way they live than from any medical problem. If medical issues were a leading cause you'd see obesity around the world as a problem. But no, america's the only nation that's dumb enough to call obesity an epidemic. Imagine telling your grandchildren about the great obesity epidemic of 2010. Oh it was terrible suzie, there were pork chops and doritoes everywhere! Come on.



Then what are you doing here? Run! Go start that buiness! And why stop with fat people, by not cater to the ugly, the bald, the extra busty? Maybe a seperate plane for children, lets face it, we all hate children on flights! Oh, you hadn't thought about helping other's with problems besides obesity? That's descrimination! Ughly people unite!

I agree with you seen it done it..

My husband recently lost 20lbs in two months after being diagnosed with diabetes.

He didnt even add in excersize just stopped eating crap and it melted off of him like butter.

He actually eats MORE often ..He eats so much it drives me crazy because he is always crunching on something ..

He eats like a " bird" ..all the time small nutritous snacks and meals and dropped 20lbs in two months.

He eats almonds and bananas and eggs )for breakfast) ..lean turkey on wheat with an apple(for lunch)..green tea with a lemon squeeze with no sugar instead of cofeee with sugar and cream...Dinner is something like a few ounces of beef with a salad..He eats beans like been soup..crunchy green beans..asparugus

Its what he DOESNT eat ..or drink I think that has made the difference..

Before he ate fast food like hamburger and fries several times a week..and he kept those apple pies that are in the package around that he ate at 3 oclock in the morning in a "sleep eat " way...

He would also eat a HUGE steak with a chessy baked potato..(and this wasnt on occasion it was staple)..

OH PEANUT BUTTER and JELLY with DORITOS!!! YUK!

I could never figure him out..

Love

Dallas

 

[challupa]

Well there is one thing I noticed. I travel to the States often and I can't believe the size of the portions of food that come with orders. My husband and I have started just ordering one order and sharing because we never could eat it all. I would take mine with me and it lasted me for 2 more meals. Yet when I looked around the restaurant, there were people with the same portions finishing their plates AND ordering dessert. I honestly don't know where they put it all. I don't mean I don't see that were I live too, but we just don't get the same serving sizes for the most part. I think that must have something to do with the larger proportion of the population being obese. I think we have just gotten too used to these big portions and now think they are normal.