About Christmas.

[lewisnotmiller]

I think it's more of a myth it's a PC thing. Stores are probably more incline to avoid it simply for reasons of possible discrimination on religious grounds or the like.

That's what I suspected. Not having a go at Riverwolf or anything. It's a tale I've heard at least a dozen times here on RF in varying forms, but I am skeptical that it's illegal, and think it's more people avoiding hassle/negative business.

Conversely, you still get a far swag of 'Merry Christmas' in Australia, even from atheists like myself...I wonder if it's due to the holiday being almost totally secular, and the country itself being more secular than America? Dunno...not something I generally think about.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

That's what I suspected. Not having a go at Riverwolf or anything. It's a tale I've heard at least a dozen times here on RF in varying forms, but I am skeptical that it's illegal, and think it's more people avoiding hassle/negative business.

Conversely, you still get a far swag of 'Merry Christmas' in Australia, even from atheists like myself...I wonder if it's due to the holiday being almost totally secular, and the country itself being more secular than America? Dunno...not something I generally think about.

I feel like it's a rumour spread by Fundi Christians

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I feel like it's a rumour spread by Fundi Christians

Hmmm...but RW isn't a fundi Christian, and he just spread the rumour.
*slaps RW just in case*

Errr...sorry, that was kinda uncalled for. But to be fair to me, FMV.3 told me to do it. Sorta. Ahem...




:run:

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Hmmm...but RW isn't a fundi Christian, and he just spread the rumour.
*slaps RW just in case*

Errr...sorry, that was kinda uncalled for. But to be fair to me, FMV.3 told me to do it. Sorta. Ahem...




:run:

! LIBEL !

But it's more that they would spread tales of it, to the point that people assumed it was a thing. Best way to make something into reality is to just say it a lot.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Best way to make something into reality is to just say it a lot.

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You're sure about this, right?

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

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You're sure about this, right?

Yup, how do you think I got this nifty hat?

 

[Riverwolf]

To be fair, lawsuits here don't always end up with something being illegal (I'm pretty sure, anyway.)

I understand that a guy was in the process of robbing a house, and sprained his ankle. He then successfully sued the guy he was robbing.

 

[metis]

If someone wishes me a "Merry Christmas", I certainly don't take offense to it. Once in a while I'll wish them "Happy Hanukkah" back just to get their reaction, but the funniest reaction is when you wish "Happy Kwanzaa" to a white person. Try it-- it's fun to see the reaction.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If someone wishes me a "Merry Christmas", I certainly don't take offense to it. Once in a while I'll wish them "Happy Hanukkah" back just to get their reaction, but the funniest reaction is when you wish "Happy Kwanzaa" to a white person. Try it-- it's fun to see the reaction.

In Australia, I can pretty much guarantee the reaction would be confusion.

 

[Tarheeler]

If someone wishes me a "Merry Christmas", I certainly don't take offense to it. Once in a while I'll wish them "Happy Hanukkah" back just to get their reaction, but the funniest reaction is when you wish "Happy Kwanzaa" to a white person. Try it-- it's fun to see the reaction.

The best is wishing someone "Happy New Year!" in the late summer/early fall.

It tends to leave them dazed and confused.

 

[ChristineES]

I say "Merry Christmas" on Christmas, Happy Chanukah (Hanukkah) during Chanukah, Happy Kwanzaa on Kwanzaa, and Happy New Year on New Year. No one has EVER shown any offense that I'm aware of.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I say "Merry Christmas" on Christmas, Happy Chanukah (Hanukkah) during Chanukah, Happy Kwanzaa on Kwanzaa, and Happy New Year on New Year. No one has EVER shown any offense that I'm aware of.

Nor should they. And if they did, they'd be the exception, rather than the rule. I hereby give you permission to slap them.

I sometimes think the biggest failing in society is lack of empathy. Why you'd get mad at someone basically wishing you a good day is beyond me.

 

[Cephus]

Business logic. If something isn't going to make you a profit, you don't sell it. Why aren't Christian-themed decorations sold during Christmas in general stores? For that reason. Probably also for the same reason that they're not allowed to say "Merry Christmas" or they'd get sued by the overly-sensitive (also bad for business).

I understand that, I'm questioning your general assertion. You're saying that most people already have religious decorations, thus they don't need to buy new ones. Where is your evidence that they already have religious decorations? After all, don't people already have secular decorations? Why would they need so many in retail stores? Don't religious decorations ever need to be replaced? Why do they not need to be replaced at the same rate as secular decorations? Look at this logically.

It's the same reason you don't see a lot of Christian-themed merchandise throughout any of the year in general stores (though ironically, they're sold in Pagan stores. lol)

That's because there isn't a significant call for them. There are a few Christian bookstores and gift shops out there, but they are not the norm.

Remember that well over 3/4ths of Americans are part of a Christian church of some sort or another. California is not representative of the rest of the country, being one of the least religious states.

Yes and no. Lots of people claim to be Christian, most of them don't actually practice Christianity. Most of them claim to be Christians for social reasons, they think it's expected of them, but most rarely, if ever, step foot in a church, read the Bible or even have any understanding of what Christianity is beyond a vague notion they heard in Sunday School.

 

[Cephus]

True enough, but some of us do. I think more do than you would think.

And that's fine, but the original question was that Christmas was a Christian holiday, which I think we both agree isn't the case. It's a secular holiday that a minority of people practice some form of religious celebration during, and the vast majority of those people still celebrate it as a secular holiday as well. I'd bet there aren't more than a minuscule percentage of people who totally reject all of the secular trappings and only celebrate Christmas religiously.

 

[ChristineES]

And that's fine, but the original question was that Christmas was a Christian holiday, which I think we both agree isn't the case. It's a secular holiday that a minority of people practice some form of religious celebration during, and the vast majority of those people still celebrate it as a secular holiday as well. I'd bet there aren't more than a minuscule percentage of people who totally reject all of the secular trappings and only celebrate Christmas religiously.

I guess for once I actually agree with you.

 

[Riverwolf]

I understand that, I'm questioning your general assertion. You're saying that most people already have religious decorations, thus they don't need to buy new ones. Where is your evidence that they already have religious decorations? After all, don't people already have secular decorations? Why would they need so many in retail stores? Don't religious decorations ever need to be replaced? Why do they not need to be replaced at the same rate as secular decorations? Look at this logically.

Logically, then, there ought to be another source for all the Christian-themed decorations I see every year on lawns. Even my mom, an agnostic, has nativity decorations. (Which, I might add, are as old as I can remember, and I'm 26.)

Churches, perhaps, give them out. Or there's dedicated Christian stores around. Perhaps the Dollar Tree, Good Will, or Salvation Army, which are Christian organizations.

That's because there isn't a significant call for them. There are a few Christian bookstores and gift shops out there, but they are not the norm.

Not in these parts.

Yes and no. Lots of people claim to be Christian, most of them don't actually practice Christianity. Most of them claim to be Christians for social reasons, they think it's expected of them, but most rarely, if ever, step foot in a church, read the Bible or even have any understanding of what Christianity is beyond a vague notion they heard in Sunday School.

That's the case in California. 'Tis not necessarily the case throughout the rest of the country. CERTAINLY not the case in the Bible Belt, and I doubt it's the case in the Midwest.

Point is this: Christmas is both a secular holiday AND a religious holiday for a large number of people (either a small majority or a large minority, depending on the state.)

 

[Cephus]

Logically, then, there ought to be another source for all the Christian-themed decorations I see every year on lawns. Even my mom, an agnostic, has nativity decorations. (Which, I might add, are as old as I can remember, and I'm 26.)

Churches, perhaps, give them out. Or there's dedicated Christian stores around. Perhaps the Dollar Tree, Good Will, or Salvation Army, which are Christian organizations.

Then maybe you should do some research and answer this question that you're so convinced is valid. Maybe you just live in an area where this is prevalent and you're projecting on all other areas of the nation. I've been to just about every state, a lot of them around Christmas and have not seen this to be the case. I guess your mileage varies.

Point is this: Christmas is both a secular holiday AND a religious holiday for a large number of people (either a small majority or a large minority, depending on the state.)

Let me know when you actually have numbers to back that up and are not just making assertions.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I've heard that Santa Claus is based loosely on St. Nicholas.

However, as I recall, Nicholas was de-canonized recently as apparently being more of a superstition than an actual person.

And I'm pretty sure Valentine got the same treatment.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Ingledsva]

I've heard that Santa Claus is based loosely on St. Nicholas.

However, as I recall, Nicholas was de-canonized recently as apparently being more of a superstition than an actual person.
And I'm pretty sure Valentine got the same treatment.
Peace,
Bruce

St. Nicholas was just another attempt by the church to make ancient traditions appear to have Christian origins.

*

 

[Riverwolf]

Then maybe you should do some research and answer this question that you're so convinced is valid. Maybe you just live in an area where this is prevalent and you're projecting on all other areas of the nation. I've been to just about every state, a lot of them around Christmas and have not seen this to be the case. I guess your mileage varies.

Actually, I live in California, just like you. Furthermore, the San Francisco Bay Area. It's probably less the case here then where you are. (Though I live down the street from a rebel Catholic-ish church that still holds mass in Latin. ^_^)

But states are big. One city per state does not a good sample make. A lot of the American population is still made up of rural communities.

BTW, I'm not my argument.

Let me know when you actually have numbers to back that up and are not just making assertions.

30% of Americans interpret the Bible literally. Pretty large number. In any case, it's still a large number (62%) that thinks America is a Christian nation. Small majority.

These two numbers together tell me that my "assertion" (which isn't all that important to me, anyway) is likely to be true.

In any case, if Christmas is only a secular holiday, what, then, would you name the Christian celebrations that occur on this day?