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A Spiritual Quest
- Thread starter sunsplash
- Start date
Willowmina
On a journey to the ocean
And how can we best achieve that?
Dearest friend zenzero,
More words? Do they help on our path?
Easiest is to talk from an high of intellectual zerozen…
Does a sustaining community spirit/vibe (sangha) play a major role in all this verbalization?
Have a look in http://www.the-aaahh.org
I do not quite understand it but they suggest a kind of practical approach
to people who can understand the vital role of sangha in our western culture.
I feel there is some zen there.
Love n light
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zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Willomina,
Your keenness is evident and personally this life has been devoted to the same [to be HERE-NOW] which still continues though moments of the mind swaying with *thoughts* still occur BUT what is important is to understand that the search has been as an individual human without taking anything for grated like the parents, family, culture and religion they follow, the country of living even the planet. Reading, understanding the essence of all reflections of TRUTH discarding all labels be they names of people, places, things in general as it is understood be it humans, planet or anything as merely forms and no-forms which keep changing according to karma till one as an individual is able to free himself through balancing his karma.
Your pointer towards sangha:
In *sociology* it is said that *society makes a man* likewise it must be understood that individual in a group makes a society which means when an individual is enlightened he changes the whole aura around existence which includes all those around him which includes a sangha and similarly when a group of people or sangha meditates together the energy/aura becomes stronger and that affects the whole existence including the members of the sangha itself.
Sangha can only be formed when when similar minded people of no-minds join together; and so far it has not happened personally.
Rgds your website: It appears fine from the outside but one has to go inside to understand their objective. It is for individuals who are interested to do so.
Best Wishes!
Love & rgds
Your keenness is evident and personally this life has been devoted to the same [to be HERE-NOW] which still continues though moments of the mind swaying with *thoughts* still occur BUT what is important is to understand that the search has been as an individual human without taking anything for grated like the parents, family, culture and religion they follow, the country of living even the planet. Reading, understanding the essence of all reflections of TRUTH discarding all labels be they names of people, places, things in general as it is understood be it humans, planet or anything as merely forms and no-forms which keep changing according to karma till one as an individual is able to free himself through balancing his karma.
Your pointer towards sangha:
In *sociology* it is said that *society makes a man* likewise it must be understood that individual in a group makes a society which means when an individual is enlightened he changes the whole aura around existence which includes all those around him which includes a sangha and similarly when a group of people or sangha meditates together the energy/aura becomes stronger and that affects the whole existence including the members of the sangha itself.
Sangha can only be formed when when similar minded people of no-minds join together; and so far it has not happened personally.
Rgds your website: It appears fine from the outside but one has to go inside to understand their objective. It is for individuals who are interested to do so.
Best Wishes!
Love & rgds
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Willomina,
Sorry your main point of how to be HERE-NOW, remained responded in the last post.
As mentioned before which is simply just by being AWARE.
Imagine someone approaching you from the back to attack you how do you know? by being aware. Awareness opens your third eye [mind's eye] which is when the mind stops to think on its own and that is simply HERE-NOW! only AWARENESS!
Love & rgds
Sorry your main point of how to be HERE-NOW, remained responded in the last post.
As mentioned before which is simply just by being AWARE.
Imagine someone approaching you from the back to attack you how do you know? by being aware. Awareness opens your third eye [mind's eye] which is when the mind stops to think on its own and that is simply HERE-NOW! only AWARENESS!
Love & rgds
Willowmina
On a journey to the ocean
Dear friend Zenzero,
We love you!
Love n light,
Willow mina
We love you!
Love n light,
Willow mina
sunsplash
Freckled
I've been finding myself angry and frustrated these last couple of days. I'm trying to be open minded and question every thing from every angle, yet keep finding myself held back by those pre-programmed Christian understandings of God. I'm trying to think of God in a new way, not form a new opinion, but rather see a new perspective. My current beliefs have been of God as an independent entity, outside of and bigger than myself, so complex that I'm incapable of understanding Him, or perhaps so simple that my mind overworks what He is. Does this representation of God, as an all-powerful, controlling parental figure make sense to me? Do I find this a comfort and that is why I am having a hard time setting this aside, even just momentarily to enlighten myself in a new way? Is it just that my brain has been trained for so long in one narrow view that it's like an addiction - coming off of that high of a belief is scary and makes me cling right back? Would viewing God on a more personal level sit better?
The last time that I attempted a relationship with God through prayer was 2008. My beloved dog had a recurring and strange lump the size of a softball, on his side right behind the forearm pit. It was filled with fluid and blood and within a day or two of drainage and compressed wraps, it would return. This dog was my baby, he was my first companion when I moved away from home, my closest friend in times of struggle, a source of unconditional love and commitment that never judged me no matter what, and the thought of not having him was barely fathomable. I had turned away from all spirituality at that time, having been frustrated and discouraged while seeking a few years prior, and like many in that last desperate attempt, I tried prayer. I never bargained with God, "spare my dog and I'll do _________," the way that I prayed was very much like me having a conversation with God, one on one, like you would have a discussion with a friend when in dispair. The talking turned into pleading. Needless to say, it was not a happy ending and almost 2 years later, I'm not yet healed from my loss.
For close to ten months after, each night before I went to bed, I tried to continue to pray to God and "understand" that there was a "purpose" for what had happened - and I also communicated with my dog, reminding him that I love him, am thankful for the time we had, and I hope he is around me always until we were reunited. The prayer never got me anywhere - but talking with my dog did give me comfort. I stopped talking to God around then. I received no signs of his presence, had no intuitive "He's listening" like so many others claimed to have experienced and was jealous and discouraged again, feeling like I had wasted my breath and anguish. I admit that I continued to (and still do occassionally
) talk to my dog - telling him I miss him, that I still feel guilt over what happened, that I didn't try hard enough or fight longer, and am all around sorry.
After a few days of not praying, I started to question if I had been praying wrong - like because I hadn't started off with a proper Biblical ritual or something, that I was being ignored until I got it right. Then I started to question whether the God I had been taught to trust in, even existed, perhaps God was God but as something else entirely and not a higher, controlling mind-spirit type of being, a similar question to what I'm now trying to contemplate.
As I've been reflecting back on that situation trying to find some insight into myself, the one thing that seems to be important to me is an afterlife of some sort, that allows me to be to be me, as I know myself now, and reunite with loved ones as I have known them in this lifetime - human and animal. This may be why I have a hard time accepting reincarnation - that once my cycle ends, the individuals that I've known and loved won't be how I knew them and have longed to see them again, and I won't be as I am now either. That depresses me. It makes me uneasy. I can accept that perhaps that's the way it is, but right now, I'm hoping for something more literal and immediate after death, I suppose.
So where does that put me? I want a God that is loving, protecting, understanding - that let's me know He's with me in those crucial moments of feeling alone and needing an uplift, hope, a reality check - anything as long as it's communication. Blind faith isn't enough for me, I'm just not that strong yet. Someday maybe I'll be able to accept that again, as I did as a child, but for now - no - I need more. Maybe that God is in myself, is myself...I do not know and hope to find out.
The last time that I attempted a relationship with God through prayer was 2008. My beloved dog had a recurring and strange lump the size of a softball, on his side right behind the forearm pit. It was filled with fluid and blood and within a day or two of drainage and compressed wraps, it would return. This dog was my baby, he was my first companion when I moved away from home, my closest friend in times of struggle, a source of unconditional love and commitment that never judged me no matter what, and the thought of not having him was barely fathomable. I had turned away from all spirituality at that time, having been frustrated and discouraged while seeking a few years prior, and like many in that last desperate attempt, I tried prayer. I never bargained with God, "spare my dog and I'll do _________," the way that I prayed was very much like me having a conversation with God, one on one, like you would have a discussion with a friend when in dispair. The talking turned into pleading. Needless to say, it was not a happy ending and almost 2 years later, I'm not yet healed from my loss.
For close to ten months after, each night before I went to bed, I tried to continue to pray to God and "understand" that there was a "purpose" for what had happened - and I also communicated with my dog, reminding him that I love him, am thankful for the time we had, and I hope he is around me always until we were reunited. The prayer never got me anywhere - but talking with my dog did give me comfort. I stopped talking to God around then. I received no signs of his presence, had no intuitive "He's listening" like so many others claimed to have experienced and was jealous and discouraged again, feeling like I had wasted my breath and anguish. I admit that I continued to (and still do occassionally
) talk to my dog - telling him I miss him, that I still feel guilt over what happened, that I didn't try hard enough or fight longer, and am all around sorry.After a few days of not praying, I started to question if I had been praying wrong - like because I hadn't started off with a proper Biblical ritual or something, that I was being ignored until I got it right. Then I started to question whether the God I had been taught to trust in, even existed, perhaps God was God but as something else entirely and not a higher, controlling mind-spirit type of being, a similar question to what I'm now trying to contemplate.
As I've been reflecting back on that situation trying to find some insight into myself, the one thing that seems to be important to me is an afterlife of some sort, that allows me to be to be me, as I know myself now, and reunite with loved ones as I have known them in this lifetime - human and animal. This may be why I have a hard time accepting reincarnation - that once my cycle ends, the individuals that I've known and loved won't be how I knew them and have longed to see them again, and I won't be as I am now either. That depresses me. It makes me uneasy. I can accept that perhaps that's the way it is, but right now, I'm hoping for something more literal and immediate after death, I suppose.
So where does that put me? I want a God that is loving, protecting, understanding - that let's me know He's with me in those crucial moments of feeling alone and needing an uplift, hope, a reality check - anything as long as it's communication. Blind faith isn't enough for me, I'm just not that strong yet. Someday maybe I'll be able to accept that again, as I did as a child, but for now - no - I need more. Maybe that God is in myself, is myself...I do not know and hope to find out.
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend sunsplash,
It is surprising that you do not know that everything is *god* including *YOU*; so when did you get separated from that god to speak as if you are separated??
Besides kindly try and read the posts between me and friend Willomina and see if you can follow parts of that.
Look forward to your response.
Love & rgds
It is surprising that you do not know that everything is *god* including *YOU*; so when did you get separated from that god to speak as if you are separated??
Besides kindly try and read the posts between me and friend Willomina and see if you can follow parts of that.
Look forward to your response.
Love & rgds
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Its not easy to answer questions like that and in many ways it's impossible to answer such intellectually and emotionally, and for a lot of people the resulting anger and frustration that follows is commonplace and very true.
A lot of it from what I find, stems from the questioning itself of which is further compounded by an array of intellectualizations and emotion all of which entails and comprises what your looking for by way of answers, all of which happens to contrast sharply with the directness of silence in manner of it's true response to your queries. As a suggestion, first explore that silence by dropping all the questioning, emotions, and intellectualizations at least temporarily, set them aside, and explore that responsive silence hand in hand, and insightfully notice all the "noise" that you happen generate as a result.
I regard people and animals that I had personally cared about in passing are still yet present in everyway. Every atom and every molecule still remains intact with the only thing missing is that of comprised form. It still hurts when I reflect yet not as much knowing that, and brings about comfort.
For close to ten months after, each night before I went to bed, I tried to continue to pray to God and "understand" that there was a "purpose" for what had happened - and I also communicated with my dog, reminding him that I love him, am thankful for the time we had, and I hope he is around me always until we were reunited. The prayer never got me anywhere - but talking with my dog did give me comfort. I stopped talking to God around then. I received no signs of his presence, had no intuitive "He's listening" like so many others claimed to have experienced and was jealous and discouraged again, feeling like I had wasted my breath and anguish. I admit that I continued to (and still do occassionally
After a few days of not praying, I started to question if I had been praying wrong - like because I hadn't started off with a proper Biblical ritual or something, that I was being ignored until I got it right. Then I started to question whether the God I had been taught to trust in, even existed, perhaps God was God but as something else entirely and not a higher, controlling mind-spirit type of being, a similar question to what I'm now trying to contemplate.
Meditate on that unresponsiveness. Guilt sucks, and holding conversations with those dear in passing remain valid enough.
There is something to be said in that everything everywhere happens to be comprised of the same "stuff" of which in wholeness there happens to be no real true separation to begin with. Always together, no matter what. :group:
Then be God, talk to God. -NM-
sunsplash
Freckled
It isn't that I'm unaware of the concept of God being everything and everyone, I just have a hard time taking a firm stance one way or the other, being so new on my personal spiritual quest. I view my Christian upbringing as almost oppressive - not allowing freedom of thought to understand God for myself, but rather directed and expected to accept that the sky is blue because that's what the majority agrees on, instead of looking behind the scenes to the cause of blue: atoms, molecules, light spectrum, and then questioning what "blue" even is or if it can exist without human cognitive affirmation.
There are so many different understandings of God, what "it" is or who "He" is - that I'm trying to figure out what feels right. Is there one universal Truth that blankets every human being, regardless of a specific faith? <-- One more question I'm thinking about...
If we look at God from our own perception or from that of other people we are bound to end up in chaos and confusion. Why ?
Because we are imperfect beings with limited understanding. That's just the way we are - nobody's fault.
From my own perspective (for what it's worth) there is only ONE WAY and ONE TRUTH to find and understand God and that is to give HIM FREE REIGN in your life. We need to hear what he says and follow those instructions blotting out all other Input from the world and from our own self whether that is emotional or intellectual baggage.
Few people are prepared to accept or follow such measures and so continue in their own quest for enlightenment. God allows us this freedom even though it is futile. He allows mankind free choice while giving us instructions (commandments) at the same time. We either accept his terms or we reject them.
sunsplash
Freckled
If we look at God from our own perception or from that of other people we are bound to end up in chaos and confusion. Why ?
Because we are imperfect beings with limited understanding. That's just the way we are - nobody's fault.
From my own perspective (for what it's worth) there is only ONE WAY and ONE TRUTH to find and understand God and that is to give HIM FREE REIGN in your life. We need to hear what he says and follow those instructions blotting out all other Input from the world and from our own self whether that is emotional or intellectual baggage.
Few people are prepared to accept or follow such measures and so continue in their own quest for enlightenment. God allows us this freedom even though it is futile. He allows mankind free choice while giving us instructions (commandments) at the same time. We either accept his terms or we reject them.
How do you do this? What is it that opens the mind and soul enough to "hear" God? I feel like I tried in the past, having nowhere to turn but to God, and still received no instruction.
Well, I could explain but I am not allowed. I'm currently in trouble for breaking 'posting rules'. Sad really since I have only the best at heart for peopleHow do you do this? What is it that opens the mind and soul enough to "hear" God? I feel like I tried in the past, having nowhere to turn but to God, and still received no instruction.
.
sunsplash
Freckled
Well, I could explain but I am not allowed. I'm currently in trouble for breaking 'posting rules'. Sad really since I have only the best at heart for people
Feel free to PM.
Just understand ahead of time that I consider all points of view so I don't jump from one conclusion to the next easily. I am looking to have a deeper understanding of whatever anyone feels is important enough to share.
No, I do not want to go behind the Moderators back.Feel free to PM.
Just understand ahead of time that I consider all points of view so I don't jump from one conclusion to the next easily. I am looking to have a deeper understanding of whatever anyone feels is important enough to share.
If I can't quote from the Word of God OPENLY I will leave .
Well, I could explain but I am not allowed. I'm currently in trouble for breaking 'posting rules'. Sad really since I have only the best at heart for people
Don't take it too personally
you aren't alone there
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How do you do this? What is it that opens the mind and soul enough to "hear" God? I feel like I tried in the past, having nowhere to turn but to God, and still received no instruction.
Personally the instruction (in my experience) came from without (external sources initially), from scriptures and a person who had already trod the path final sealed the deal. From then on "my" grasp relaxed and my inner-guru took over. Not in some hippy way, and not even something I feel comfortable to describe, but I have just come to accept that it isn't "me" doing the driving, and since then life has been full of wonder, learning and bliss. First I had to reaslise that negative emotions are false, they are not our real nature. Like weeds I turned my thoughts back to the positive, away from the doubts and circular questions, back to the answers I had found.
I also learnt it doesn't matter, everyone will find that inner-peace, with or without me shouting about it. I hope Beta and others can share some angles from their backgrounds
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Thank you friend but I think I'll stay on the sidelines for a while. Not that anyone would miss my contributions. This world is full of opinions, one more or less makes no difference.:no:Don't take it too personally
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend sunsplash,
Do get the picture or stage of your being.
Check this out:
Each and every being is in harmony with existence except humans.
This is because of the developed MIND that THINKS and takes decisions. Other beings only respond to external stimulus.
The MIND is the SATAN of the Bible to personal understanding as this mind is the place which thinks and the thinking comes from desires and thoughts develop according to the desires. The barrier of humans to harmonies with existence there is only one barrier which is the mind.
Presently too the confusion created in your mind is the same mind itself.
Once when the Mind [thoughts] are STILLED then humans too are in harmony as then they too respond and not react through their minds .
Humans are forms which came out of nothingness and returns to nothingness and so every form including humans are coming from the same source and so are all one.
God is only a concept developed by humans which came much much later.
Love & rgds
Do get the picture or stage of your being.
Check this out:
Each and every being is in harmony with existence except humans.
This is because of the developed MIND that THINKS and takes decisions. Other beings only respond to external stimulus.
The MIND is the SATAN of the Bible to personal understanding as this mind is the place which thinks and the thinking comes from desires and thoughts develop according to the desires. The barrier of humans to harmonies with existence there is only one barrier which is the mind.
Presently too the confusion created in your mind is the same mind itself.
Once when the Mind [thoughts] are STILLED then humans too are in harmony as then they too respond and not react through their minds .
Humans are forms which came out of nothingness and returns to nothingness and so every form including humans are coming from the same source and so are all one.
God is only a concept developed by humans which came much much later.
Love & rgds
sunsplash
Freckled
I think I've finally realized a huge obstacle in my search - one that I put there and never realized or perhaps never acknowledged was a problem, but it needs to be addressed.
Anytime someone brings up how you need Jesus to be saved or happy, posts scripture or talks about Christianity on facebook, I get extremely angry. A really deep rooted anger, and this isn't good. I don't like anger, especially persistent anger - it isn't healthy - and in this case I don't even know WHY I'm angry. No other religion makes me feel this way, in fact, I enjoy hearing about how others are spiritually fulfilled in their faith, how a deep meditation was soothing, or shabbat was so wonderful. But when it comes to Christians, I have a complete adverse reaction. I get ****** off to the point of having to consciously tell myself to shut up before I say something uncalled for, ignorant, and unbecoming of myself because I don't want those horrible feelings to be a reflection of who I am, because this is NOT the person I know myself to be!
Is it Christianity that I'm angry at? Or the arrogant Christians that make up the majority of friends and family in my life? I think it's a combination of both. My love and respect for Judaism and how it was twisted and contorted to fit this new breed of religion so far detatched from it's "origin" that it's hardly recognizable, causes me anger. Constantly hearing from people who have "found the way" and "know" that this one religion is right and true for all and others are false, and want to "educate" non-Christians and Christians alike, feeling the need to "remind" them of how to live correctly, almost like they think "they" are superior because they've figured it out and have to hold others below them "accountable" for things that should be none of their damn business, causes me anger. I really hate proselytization - and I try to never use the word hate.
I need to expell these feelings. I thought I was so completely open minded and really appreciated and respected every faith and practitioner, and while that is mostly true, I'd be lying if I attributed those towards the Christ Crew. I shouldn't get so frustrated and angry and feel physically ill when I hear people happy and proud in their spiritual walk - but when it is forced into my life, like I can't catch a breath without hearing about it, I don't know how to stop these feelings, to stop caring and live life for me.
Anytime someone brings up how you need Jesus to be saved or happy, posts scripture or talks about Christianity on facebook, I get extremely angry. A really deep rooted anger, and this isn't good. I don't like anger, especially persistent anger - it isn't healthy - and in this case I don't even know WHY I'm angry. No other religion makes me feel this way, in fact, I enjoy hearing about how others are spiritually fulfilled in their faith, how a deep meditation was soothing, or shabbat was so wonderful. But when it comes to Christians, I have a complete adverse reaction. I get ****** off to the point of having to consciously tell myself to shut up before I say something uncalled for, ignorant, and unbecoming of myself because I don't want those horrible feelings to be a reflection of who I am, because this is NOT the person I know myself to be!
Is it Christianity that I'm angry at? Or the arrogant Christians that make up the majority of friends and family in my life? I think it's a combination of both. My love and respect for Judaism and how it was twisted and contorted to fit this new breed of religion so far detatched from it's "origin" that it's hardly recognizable, causes me anger. Constantly hearing from people who have "found the way" and "know" that this one religion is right and true for all and others are false, and want to "educate" non-Christians and Christians alike, feeling the need to "remind" them of how to live correctly, almost like they think "they" are superior because they've figured it out and have to hold others below them "accountable" for things that should be none of their damn business, causes me anger. I really hate proselytization - and I try to never use the word hate.
I need to expell these feelings. I thought I was so completely open minded and really appreciated and respected every faith and practitioner, and while that is mostly true, I'd be lying if I attributed those towards the Christ Crew. I shouldn't get so frustrated and angry and feel physically ill when I hear people happy and proud in their spiritual walk - but when it is forced into my life, like I can't catch a breath without hearing about it, I don't know how to stop these feelings, to stop caring and live life for me.
DoctorAnswerMan
Resident Answer Man
Your doubts are well founded. There are answers. It is likely that I am not permitted to discuss the answers on this forum. Is there a personal message system on this forum? If so, drop me a line and I will direct you toward some reference material to assist you in your quest.