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A religion more dangerous than Islam?

Jim

Nets of Wonder
As I understand it, the danger that some people see in Islam is because of the way it deifies the Quran, and because allegedly multitudes of Muslims everywhere in the world want their laws to be part the law of the land.

The Baha'i Faith deifies the Quran as much as Muslims do, and multitudes of Baha'is everywhere in the world might believe that all Baha'i laws will some day be part of the law of the land in every country of the world. Could the Baha'i Faith be even more dangerous than Islam?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
As I understand it, the danger that some people see in Islam is because of the way it deifies the Quran, and because allegedly multitudes of Muslims everywhere in the world want their laws to be part the law of the land.

The Baha'i Faith deifies the Quran as much as Muslims do, and multitudes of Baha'is everywhere in the world might believe that all Baha'i laws will some day be part of the law of the land in every country of the world. Could the Baha'i Faith be even more dangerous than Islam?

Anything is possible, but the Bahai Faith has a few advantages that Islaam denies itself.

Chief among them, the very tolerance of inner disagreements and the acknowledgement that there are changes in relevance of message as time goes by.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Chief among them, the very tolerance of inner disagreements and the acknowledgement that there are changes in relevance of message as time goes by.
Do you think that, in practice, Baha'is disagree openly with their leaders more than Muslims do, or that that they have more freedom to try to reform their religion in ways contrary to the interests of their supreme leaders? If so, what are your reasons for thinking that? Acknowledgement that there are changes in relevance of the message of their prophet, or his authorized interpreters? Where do you see any Baha'i leaders or institutions acknowledging that

Apart from that, the view that all the words of the Quran are the words of God is explicit in their scriptures, that has never been questioned by any Baha'is, and I don't see any reason for anyone to think that it ever will be questioned.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
And how consistent is it when it does?
It says that all the words in the Quran are the words of God Himself.
(edit)That's in answer to the question of what the Baha'i Faith says about spreading a religion by violence.(end edit)
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Could you please rephrase or explain that? English isn't my native language and I have difficulties to understand what you're trying to say.
I see your point, but the standard reply when the question is presented to Muslims is that "There is No Compulsion in Religion".

That is a direct quote from the Qur'an, Surah 2 (Al Baqarah), verse 256

Al-Baqara 256 - Wikipedia


However, beyond being at odds with numerous other passages of the Qur'an and very hard to reconcile with Islaamic doctrine in general, that excerpt is also subject to the context of the verse itself and of the Surah more generally. It is hardly a call for religious tolerance, and it can not really be reconciled with the Qur'an if understood as such a call.
 

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
As I understand it, the danger that some people see in Islam is because of the way it deifies the Quran, and because allegedly multitudes of Muslims everywhere in the world want their laws to be part the law of the land.

The Baha'i Faith deifies the Quran as much as Muslims do, and multitudes of Baha'is everywhere in the world might believe that all Baha'i laws will some day be part of the law of the land in every country of the world. Could the Baha'i Faith be even more dangerous than Islam?


No - and I am going to be blunt here - there are not enough of you and the world is a lot more connected now

Both are needed - IMO

You will face opposition from mainstream Islam and Christianity not to mention Dharmics who will resist
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Do you think that, in practice, Baha'is disagree openly with their leaders more than Muslims do,

I feel certain of that, although I will not place any bets on how large the extent of the difference is.

If nothing else, Bahais do not have a claim that capital punishment befits apostasy. Even "convenant breaking" can hardly lead to anything that severe.


or that that they have more freedom to try to reform their religion in ways contrary to the interests of their supreme leaders?

You probably have such an advantage, although that feels less certain and less decisive. Word reached me that this is a thorny subject matter for Bahais.

Even so, there is simply less room for violent extremism in your scriptures.


If so, what are your reasons for thinking that? Acknowledgement that there are changes in relevance of the message of their prophet, or his authorized interpreters? Where do you see any Baha'i leaders or institutions acknowledging that

Isn't that the core of the doctrine of progressive revelation? Or, at least, a fairly automatic extrapolation from it?

Progressive revelation (Bahá'í) - Wikipedia

Apart from that, the view that all the words of the Quran are the words of God is explicit in their scriptures, that has never been questioned by any Baha'is, and I don't see any reason for anyone to think that it ever will be questioned.

That is however far less central to Bahais than it is for Muslims. And I don't think it has to have much in the way of practical consequence, either.

Bahais also claim Buddhism and Hinduism to be revelations from Messengers of God, after all, despite direct incompatibilities with those very doctrines.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
A religion can only be as dangerous as it's followers.

And its followers are only as dangerous as their practices.

Ideologies, when not translated into real world actions, are functionally meaningless outside of their bearer.

Dont-Worry-What-People-Think-bumper-sticker-600x315.jpg
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
The Baha'i Faith deifies the Quran as much as Muslims do, ...

Really? Would you happen to have a widely-held, written Baha'i authority for that claim?

Could the Baha'i Faith be even more dangerous than Islam?

How far would a devout and committed Baha'i go to punish a perceived non-Baha'i's insult to a Baha'i spiritual leader or scripture?
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Even so, there is simply less room for violent extremism in your scriptures.
A point that you might be missing is that the Quran is counted as part of Baha'i scriptures, as being entirely the words of God Himself, as much as the words of Baha'u'llah.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
A point that you might be missing is that the Quran is counted as part of Baha'i scriptures, as being entirely the words of God Himself, as much as the words of Baha'u'llah.
And yet you are not even accepted as Muslims, nor expect to be recognized as such, among other reasons because you disagree to some extent with the Qur'an. At the very least, with the claim that Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets.

There is of course contradiction in that. I assume that Bahais with more of a proximity to Muslim communities may feel more strongly about the Qur'a nevertheless. But even there I feel that once it is realized that questioning and change are not sins the worse of the blow will be avoided.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I think the true test of a religion or philosophy is to see hat happens when it has power. In today's world, that usually means when you're in the majority in a country. Ethnic cleansing generally happens then. I've been personally disappointed with Buddhism both in Myanmar, and in Sri Lanka. Tibet wasn't much better.

Buddhist doctrine celebrates peace for the most part, but look what happened. So who knows what would happen if any seemingly pacifist group got into power? Fortunately, many groups are so small we'll never know.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
@LuisDantas I might be proving your point more than mine. My point was that it's possible for a population of people to honestly say that they believe in the Quran as the word of God, without being a danger to society. Your point was that a population like that would no longer be Muslims.

"You got to know when to hold up,
Know when to fold up,
Know when to walk away,
Know when to run."
- Kenny Rogers

I'll be back later for another hand, if you're in for it.
 
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