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Koldo

Outstanding Member
Just wanted to point out, it's not only the refusal to vote, but the refusal to participate in military service.... among other things, based on which country they reside.

My question here is: Are they being targetted or do they just happen to end up being screwed because they just happen to be the ones breaking the law?

The two things have completely different implications. In the first case, the laws were tailored with the intent to persecute them. In the second case, simply no religious exemption is being granted. So which one is it?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
We are not the only group that Russia persecutes. They're very good at taking measures against minorities they don't like. Gay people, for example, are heavily persecuted. People of dark color aren't treated very well either. Should all those people just be okay with the law, even if they are peaceful, decent human beings who are not causing harm to others?

As i said in post #18...
Let me clarify, it's not how i think it should go, but that's how it is.

Each of these countries with harsh laws designed to persecute minorities has independent sovereignty, they can create laws as they wish. Other countries and organizations can protest. But in the end its up to the individual country there is nothing we can do about it.

My view is if the laws impact so deeply then get out of the country.
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
My view is if the laws impact so deeply then get out of the country.

That's a choice many people can't make. And it increases migration, which is another source of problems.
If the issue can be addressed and resolved at the source, it is normally much better.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
That's a choice many people can't make. And it increases migration, which is another source of problems.
If the issue can be addressed and resolved at the source, it is normally much better.

Why can't they make the choice? There are several countries that will take in political refugees.

If only, in the current climate it's unlikely to happen.
 

Sgt. Pepper

Well-Known Member
So don't be a JW in Russia etc, the law is the law and no religion should be above the law

I agree with you, Christine, because I do not believe that religious people are above the law either. While I do not condone violence against religious people, those who violate the law should be held accountable and face the consequences of their actions, including imprisonment and a hefty fine. If a religious person or a sect of religious people break the law, such as an anti-discrimination law, because they dislike LGBTQ+ people and oppose homosexuality, then they should be held accountable and face the consequences. I believe that no one—person or organization—should receive preferential treatment on the basis of their religious beliefs. My opinion is that religious people who break the law should face the same or similar consequences as nonreligious people who break the law.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Yep the law is the law. That's why I never lt bad for Brittney Griner.
Reports in US media suggest imprisoned Russian arms trafficker Viktor Bout - known as the Merchant of Death - could be transferred by Washington to the Russian authorities as part of the deal.
Interesting deal... or should I say, bribe.

Viktor Bout, one of the world's most infamous arms dealers, has been released from US custody as part of a prisoner exchange with US basketball star Brittney Grine

So notorious are the exploits of the former Soviet air force officer that they inspired a Hollywood film, and garnered him an impressively fearsome nickname.

I wonder how the US Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), feels about that deal, after risking their necks in a sting operation, to bust the criminal.

So glad I am not involved in politics. ;)
Looks like the Gremlin is holding the bomb, and taking hostages... threatening to "blow this god forsaken land to bits, if anyone so much as breathes inside Russia."
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
USCIRF-report.jpg

A report by the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom describes persecution of [Jehovah's] Witnesses as a global phenomenon

In Eritrea, if you are a member of a certain religion you will be stripped of citizenship, lose all your civil rights, and probably end up in jail. If you try to practice the same religion in Tajikistan or Singapore, you may be arrested. In Russia, your religion is banned and, if taken to jail, you may even be tortured. Even in some democratic countries, as a member of that religion there is a risk you will be harassed in several different ways.

This is the situation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses...

It is not just if you are a Jehovah's Witness.

The 50 Countries Where It’s Most Dangerous to Follow Jesus in 2021
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Nope, its all about the law of certain countries, you dont like the laws in other countries then tough.

Let's all be sure to remember this next time there are any sorts of human rights violations regardless of whether or not it involves (ir)religion, right? Nothing to see here... persecution of any ethnic group, religious group, sex group, is a'okay so long as the law says so! We should all shut up about it already!
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Yes i know what the thread is about, if people followed the law state religious persecution would not exist.

Why should religion be above the law?

The law is made for all the people, religion should not give people a cop out

To be fair, such argument is really only valid when dealing with free secular societies where freedom of and from religion exists and is considered important.

In such case, it is okay to state religion is not above the law (as in, if your religious demands human sacrifice, then those religious rituals will be illegal and face murder charges).

But when talking about facist hellholes like russia.... not really.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Let's all be sure to remember this next time there are any sorts of human rights violations regardless of whether or not it involves (ir)religion, right? Nothing to see here... persecution of any ethnic group, religious group, sex group, is a'okay so long as the law says so! We should all shut up about it already!

Sheesh. You can demonstrate and complain as much as you want, it will make not the slightest difference to putin and co.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Sheesh. You can demonstrate and complain as much as you want, it will make not the slightest difference to putin and co.

The apathetic do-nothings certainly don't make the slightest difference.

The others who do the work, though, certainly do make a difference.

There's a trite saying - and I rather hate trite sayings - that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good women to do nothing. As annoying as the saying is, it holds its truth.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
The apathetic do-nothings certainly don't make the slightest difference.

The others who do the work, though, certainly do make a difference.

There's a trite saying - and I rather hate trite sayings - that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good women to do nothing. As annoying as the saying is, it holds its truth.


And of course you know nothing about me but thats the way it goes eh?

But true, ive never demonstrated in red square or mailed putin to stop killing people, have you?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
So don't be a JW in Russia etc, the law is the law and no religion should be above the law

A lot of people use that same argument to defend persecution of atheists in Muslim-majority countries, though, or persecution of Muslims in China.

Jeohavh's Witnesses shouldn't have to live in fear for their safety just because they belong to a specific religion. They have as much right to their belief as everyone else.
 
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