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Discussion in 'Religious News' started by nPeace, Jan 24, 2023 at 9:10 AM.

  1. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Yes i know, there is persecution across the world.

    Of course JWs should not have to live in fear but the fact is, in certain countries they do have to live that way or emigrate
     
  2. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    That's the current situation, yes. I just don't see the fact that it happens as a reason we should approve of it or be indifferent.
     
  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Nor do i though there is little anyone can do about it short of those effected moving out of the danger zone
     
  4. Exaltist Ethan

    Exaltist Ethan Synverse Shaper

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    Fighting intolerance with intolerance. Like fighting fire with more fire. This doesn't make either group look good.
     
  5. Sgt. Pepper

    Sgt. Pepper RF's resident Beatlemaniac. ☮ and ❤

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    I am aware that you are not an American, but I believe there are some Americans who are unaware that religious freedom does not exist in every country and may even take their religious freedom for granted. We may not agree with the repressive laws in other nations, but there is nothing we can do about it, and it is highly unlikely that the federal government of our country will interfere with the sovereignty of other nations and demand that there be religious freedom in every country in the world. I am not sure if religious freedom is considered a fundamental human right or not, but I believe that the national leaders of our country (France and the U.S.), as well as those of other countries in the UN, should condemn and speak out against any form of violence against religious people who live in countries where religious freedom is restricted or prohibited by the laws of the country. We should condemn the violence.
     
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  6. The Kilted Heathen

    The Kilted Heathen Crow FreyjasmaðR

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    If the nation you lived in changed their laws unanimously tomorrow that Atheism was illegal, and punishable by up to $50,000 and a minimum of 15 years in prison, would you comply? Would you move? As Quin put it, it is not about religions being "above the law", it is about laws being specifically predatory.

    Perhaps not the best way to garner sympathy.
     
  7. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    That's quite a lot of read information.
    While it's interesting, it's questionable regarding its accuracy, especially in relation to what the source considers persecution.

    For example it reads...
    Four countries dropped off the list: Sri Lanka (formerly No. 30), Russia (formerly No. 46), United Arab Emirates (formerly No. 47), and Niger (formerly No. 50).

    Yet...
    Multiple Nations Issue Joint Statement Calling for an End to the Persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses
    On December 17, 2021, multiple member nations of the International Religious Freedom or Belief Alliance a (IRFBA) issued a joint statement of support for Jehovah’s Witnesses who are being persecuted for their faith. The statement called for the immediate release of all imprisoned Witnesses as well as the end of torture and physical abuse, home raids, and discrimination.

    ARTICLE 19 with the NGO coalition Civic Solidarity Platform, express our deep concern for the deprivation of the right to freedom of religion or belief towards Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia and the persecution of the Community members. We urge the Russian authorities to stop deprivations, interrogations and criminal investigations for peaceful religious activity of Jehovah’s Witnesses. We ask the international organizations and governments of the democratic states to call on the Russian government to end the persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF)
    “USCIRF is appalled by Russia’s treatment of Dennis Christensen,” says Chair Gayle Manchin, in a statement released on October 27, 2020. “There is clearly an official vendetta against this poor man, who is guilty only of peacefully practicing his faith. Instead of showing mercy, the state is treating him like a dangerous criminal. This is an egregious miscarriage of justice.”

    Officials from Europe and the United States continue to decry the ongoing persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia.​


    This would suggest that the source either does not understand what it means to follow Jesus, or they don't realize that it's not about being Christian... or both.
    Since religions in Russia are allowed to practice their "Christian" worship freely.
    Only, not those, singled out for 'special attention'.

    Hence, the title of the article, probably should not include the phrase "Where It’s Most Dangerous to Follow Jesus".
     
  8. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    I would say that Jehovah's Witnesses would be included in the figures in the article I posted.
    Most of the persecution of Christians is not reported in the mainstream media of course.
    Maybe JWs are persecuted in Russia but the persecution is not very severe and so Russia is not on the list.
    I think Russia does persecute Christians but not severely and so it is not on the list.
    Russia is included in the map for example of where Christians suffer violence for their faith.
     
    #48 Brian2, Jan 24, 2023 at 9:09 PM
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023 at 9:19 PM
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Seems everyone, but Putin, sees through his fabricated scheme.

    The UN officials explain that Russia’s vague extremism laws have “been invoked to prohibit any religious activity by Jehovah’s Witnesses, instill fear among them, interfere with their privacy through police interventions and searches at their homes, to take some of their members into custody for the purpose of interrogation, and in some cases to convict and imprison them.”

    “The right of the Jehovah’s Witnesses to religious practices and manifestations is provided by article 18 (1) of the ICCPR,” a assert the officials. Thus, they call on the Russian Federation “to ensure that the 2002 Federal Law on Combating Extremist Activity does not unduly infringe upon the constitutional rights of individuals to freedom of thought, conscience, religion or belief.”

    Seems Putin had a plan. Not only for Jehovah's Witnesses, but Ukraine as well.

    “In the time of the end the king of the south will engage with him in a pushing, and against him the king of the north will storm with chariots and horsemen and many ships; and he will enter into the lands and sweep through like a flood. He will also enter into the land of the Decoration, and many lands will be made to stumble. But these are the ones that will escape out of his hand: Edom and Moab and the main part of the Ammonites. And he will keep thrusting out his hand against the lands; and as regards the land of Egypt, she will not escape. And he will rule over the hidden treasures of gold and silver and over all the desirable things of Egypt. And the Libyans and the Ethiopians will be at his steps.
    - Daniel 11:40-43

    Let's see how far he goes.
     
  10. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Russia made international headlines when they attacked the known peaceful community of Jehovah's Witnesses, back in 2017.

    This was world news. Hard to see how they could have missed?
    That's why their accuracy is questionable. It calls into question what their focus is on, where persecution is concerned... at least from my point of view.
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Normally I would agree with you. And you should know that I think that the Jehovah's Witnesses are about as close to being insane as is possible. But even so that does not justify abuse and torture. If a person is supposed to serve in the military or face prison time, then give them prison time. One cannot add torture into the mix.
     
  12. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Yes Putin might be the King of the North. Interesting times.
    It is not just JWs who are persecuted in Russia however. In 2019 Russia was on the list of 50 and was 41st. It is not that Russia has decreased persecution but others have increased.

    Russia Named in List of 50 Countries in Which Christians Face Persecution
    Living as a Persecuted Christian in Russia – Arrive Ministries

    You may be more interested in the following article which seems to concentrate on the JWs. But it also shows that others are targeted by Russia. It could be that the JWs are seen as more extreme in their activities.
    Relentless Religious Persecution in Russia - Religious Freedom Institute
     
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  13. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it's a relative list and so being out of the top 50 does not mean that persecution does not happen there, for other groups also.
     
  14. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    No. I'm aware that Russia persecutes religions that are not in its wife's bedroom. We have reported that as well.
     
  15. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    I see your article identified Russia's wife. :D
    The ever-increasing religious persecution by the Russian government has caught the attention of governments worldwide. In February 2021, the U.S. Department of State released a statement via their spokesperson, Ned Price, urging Russia to lift the ban on Jehovah’s Witnesses and to respect the right of free exercise of religion. Since the release of this statement, other religious groups have spoken out about the intensifying persecution in Russia. One example is Russia’s Old Believers, an Orthodox Christian group that separated from the mainline Russian Orthodox Church in 1666. The Old Believers have called on the Russian Government change course, emphasizing that “Freedom of religion is one of the inalienable rights of the person, which humanity has conquered over the course of many years.” Furthermore, the Old Believers called attention to the inevitable civil unrest to which religious repression so often gives rise, as evidenced through their own experience with the czarist and Bolshevik regimes. Civil aggression, they argued, could be avoided “if the authorities adhere to the principle of freedom of conscience and religious confession.”

    The persecution the Old Believers referenced occurred during the Czarist Russian regime at the beginning of the twentieth century when the government restricted all expressions of Christianity apart from Russian Orthodoxy, the church of the state. Among the religious groups afflicted were Protestants, Roman Catholics, and Old Believers. The Russian government justified its extensive measures of religious intolerance against Christians outside of Russian Orthodoxy and people of other faiths through an ideological amalgam of xenophobia, nationalism, and Orthodox triumphalism. The respective ruler at the time, Nicholas II, the last Russian czar, lived in great fear that non-Orthodox expressions of faith would undermine the viability of the Russian nation. As a result of rampant government corruption, costly economic regression, and the de-establishment of the Duma, the Russian Parliament, moderates, and Russian radicals joined forces with the intention of overthrowing the Russian czar, a movement known today as the February Revolution (1917).

    Curious. Do you see this increase activity against religious entities, as part of Bible prophecy? :)
     
  16. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    I expect more persecution of Christianity as the world turns from Jesus. Jesus did say that Christians should expect it. In the West it is Christianity's involvement in Governments which may have prevented it but that influence seems to be lessening these days.
     
  17. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Lessened significantly, I would say.
    Sounds exactly like this.
    (Revelation 17:1-2) 1 . . .the great prostitute who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality, and earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.”
    Religions' powerful influence over people, and government.
    Religion involved in politics, and starving millions of people spiritually, even misleading these god seekers.


    (Revelation 17:3) . . .I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast . . .
    Religions' role in jockeying government.

    (Revelation 17:15-18) 15 He said to me: “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. 16 And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire. 17 For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished. 18 And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”
    Religions losing her grip on the people, who are leaving by the numbers.
    Religions losing her grip on the governments.
    Tables turned - Government turns on religion to completely wipe them out.


    Fits perfectly to me.
     
  18. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    It could be seen that way.
     
  19. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I'm on the opposite side of this one to you as well. There are countries where being an atheist is illegal, or persecuted.

    If a person breaks a specific law, then the consequences should be the same for them as others, regardless of religion. But that cuts both ways. There are countries where belonging to a religion results in more negative consequences than others receive, and I stand against that for the same reason I stand against persecution for the non-religious, homosexuals, women, etc.
     
  20. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Yes I'd move.

    You mean religion being above predatory law... It is still the law.
     
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