A Global Phenomenon

[nPeace]

A report by the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom describes persecution of [Jehovah's] Witnesses as a global phenomenon

In Eritrea, if you are a member of a certain religion you will be stripped of citizenship, lose all your civil rights, and probably end up in jail. If you try to practice the same religion in Tajikistan or Singapore, you may be arrested. In Russia, your religion is banned and, if taken to jail, you may even be tortured. Even in some democratic countries, as a member of that religion there is a risk you will be harassed in several different ways.

This is the situation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses...
​

 

[ChristineM]

So don't be a JW in Russia etc, the law is the law and no religion should be above the law

 

[nPeace]

Crimes Against Peaceful People
In one of the homes they raided in Irkutsk, 31-year-old Anatoly Razdobarov lived with his wife, Greta, OMON agents forced Anatoly to the floor, and handcuffed him with his arms behind his back. They asked him to confess that he had committed criminal acts, and to inform them on other believers. When Anatoly refused, they started torturing him, kicking him in the head and kidneys. Then they grabbed his handcuffed hands, and wrenched him up off the ground, so that his body hyper-extended his shoulders.

As Anatoly continued to resist, the OMON officers threatened to sodomize him, and tried to force a glass bottle in his buttocks. He was in the power of OMON for some eight hours, after which he was released.

His wife Greta was dragged by her hair into another room, handcuffed with her arms behind her back, and beaten. Only after thirty minutes, she was untied and allowed to get dressed.

There's more.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

A report by the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom describes persecution of [Jehovah's] Witnesses as a global phenomenon

In Eritrea, if you are a member of a certain religion you will be stripped of citizenship, lose all your civil rights, and probably end up in jail. If you try to practice the same religion in Tajikistan or Singapore, you may be arrested. In Russia, your religion is banned and, if taken to jail, you may even be tortured. Even in some democratic countries, as a member of that religion there is a risk you will be harassed in several different ways.

This is the situation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses...
​

Wanted to do some further digging into Eritrea and it's policies regarding JW's. Here's what I found:

"... NGOs estimated authorities continued to detain from 130 to more than 1,000 people due to their faith. Authorities reportedly continued to detain 24 Jehovah’s Witnesses for refusing to participate in military service or renounce their faith. At least 20 Muslim protesters reportedly remained in detention following protests in Asmara in October 2017 and March 2018. Authorities continued to confine former Eritrean Orthodox Church Patriarch Abune Antonios to house arrest, where he has remained since 2006. The government continued to deny citizenship to Jehovah’s Witnesses after stripping them of citizenship in 1994 for refusing to participate in the referendum that created the independent state of Eritrea.
(...) Authorities reportedly continued to detain 24 Jehovah’s Witnesses, more than half of whom had been in prison for more than 20 years, for refusing to participate in military service or renounce their faith. At least 20 Muslim protesters reportedly remained in detention following protests in Asmara in October 2017 and March 2018.
(...) The government continued to single out Jehovah’s Witnesses for particularly harsh treatment because of their blanket refusal to vote in the 1993 referendum on the country’s independence and subsequent refusal to participate in mandatory national service, for which the government stripped them of their citizenship in 1994. The government continued to detain Jehovah’s Witnesses and other religious prisoners for failure to follow the law or for national security reasons and continued to deny them citizenship.
(...) Jehovah’s Witnesses were largely unable to obtain official identification documents, which left many of them unable to study in government institutions and barred them from most forms of employment, government benefits, access to bank accounts, and travel."
SOURCE: https://www.state.gov/reports/2021-report-on-international-religious-freedom/eritrea/#:~:text=The Pew Foundation in 2016,population is predominantly Eritrean Orthodox.

So it sounds like the persecution of JW's in Eritrea is linked with them refusing to vote in the referendum to establish Eritrean independence (I was only informed recently that JW's don't vote, though I welcome anyone to correct me if this is not strictly the case) and then just spiralled from there. They obviously don't seem to be the only persecuted religious group, but they are certainly singled out for "special treatment". Pretty abominable stuff.

 

[nPeace]

Wanted to do some further digging into Eritrea and it's policies regarding JW's. Here's what I found:

"... NGOs estimated authorities continued to detain from 130 to more than 1,000 people due to their faith. Authorities reportedly continued to detain 24 Jehovah’s Witnesses for refusing to participate in military service or renounce their faith. At least 20 Muslim protesters reportedly remained in detention following protests in Asmara in October 2017 and March 2018. Authorities continued to confine former Eritrean Orthodox Church Patriarch Abune Antonios to house arrest, where he has remained since 2006. The government continued to deny citizenship to Jehovah’s Witnesses after stripping them of citizenship in 1994 for refusing to participate in the referendum that created the independent state of Eritrea.
(...) Authorities reportedly continued to detain 24 Jehovah’s Witnesses, more than half of whom had been in prison for more than 20 years, for refusing to participate in military service or renounce their faith. At least 20 Muslim protesters reportedly remained in detention following protests in Asmara in October 2017 and March 2018.
(...) The government continued to single out Jehovah’s Witnesses for particularly harsh treatment because of their blanket refusal to vote in the 1993 referendum on the country’s independence and subsequent refusal to participate in mandatory national service, for which the government stripped them of their citizenship in 1994. The government continued to detain Jehovah’s Witnesses and other religious prisoners for failure to follow the law or for national security reasons and continued to deny them citizenship.
(...) Jehovah’s Witnesses were largely unable to obtain official identification documents, which left many of them unable to study in government institutions and barred them from most forms of employment, government benefits, access to bank accounts, and travel."
SOURCE: https://www.state.gov/reports/2021-report-on-international-religious-freedom/eritrea/#:~:text=The Pew Foundation in 2016,population is predominantly Eritrean Orthodox.

So it sounds like the persecution of JW's in Eritrea is linked with them refusing to vote in the referendum to establish Eritrean independence (I was only informed recently that JW's don't vote, though I welcome anyone to correct me if this is not strictly the case) and then just spiralled from there. They obviously don't seem to be the only persecuted religious group, but they are certainly singled out for "special treatment". Pretty abominable stuff.

Yes, that information is accurate.
Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral.

 

[Quintessence]

So don't be a JW in Russia etc, the law is the law and no religion should be above the law

... are you sure that's how it ought to go?

This is a thread about religious persecution. Let's take a moment to think about that for a second and the implications of "no religion should be above the law" when we are dealing with religious persecution, specifically.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yes, that information is accurate.
Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral.

Thank you for the clarification.

Yeah, this is pretty horrendous stuff. To be honest, I looked up these countries and their policies expecting I would find that JW's were less of an exception and that a lot of these prohibitions on religion actually applied to a large number of different religions, but it really does seem like the JW's are being picked out for particularly bad treatment in a lot of cases.

 

[nPeace]

Wanted to do some further digging into Eritrea and it's policies regarding JW's. Here's what I found:

"... NGOs estimated authorities continued to detain from 130 to more than 1,000 people due to their faith. Authorities reportedly continued to detain 24 Jehovah’s Witnesses for refusing to participate in military service or renounce their faith. At least 20 Muslim protesters reportedly remained in detention following protests in Asmara in October 2017 and March 2018. Authorities continued to confine former Eritrean Orthodox Church Patriarch Abune Antonios to house arrest, where he has remained since 2006. The government continued to deny citizenship to Jehovah’s Witnesses after stripping them of citizenship in 1994 for refusing to participate in the referendum that created the independent state of Eritrea.
(...) Authorities reportedly continued to detain 24 Jehovah’s Witnesses, more than half of whom had been in prison for more than 20 years, for refusing to participate in military service or renounce their faith. At least 20 Muslim protesters reportedly remained in detention following protests in Asmara in October 2017 and March 2018.
(...) The government continued to single out Jehovah’s Witnesses for particularly harsh treatment because of their blanket refusal to vote in the 1993 referendum on the country’s independence and subsequent refusal to participate in mandatory national service, for which the government stripped them of their citizenship in 1994. The government continued to detain Jehovah’s Witnesses and other religious prisoners for failure to follow the law or for national security reasons and continued to deny them citizenship.
(...) Jehovah’s Witnesses were largely unable to obtain official identification documents, which left many of them unable to study in government institutions and barred them from most forms of employment, government benefits, access to bank accounts, and travel."
SOURCE: https://www.state.gov/reports/2021-report-on-international-religious-freedom/eritrea/#:~:text=The Pew Foundation in 2016,population is predominantly Eritrean Orthodox.

So it sounds like the persecution of JW's in Eritrea is linked with them refusing to vote in the referendum to establish Eritrean independence (I was only informed recently that JW's don't vote, though I welcome anyone to correct me if this is not strictly the case) and then just spiralled from there. They obviously don't seem to be the only persecuted religious group, but they are certainly singled out for "special treatment". Pretty abominable stuff.

Just wanted to point out, it's not only the refusal to vote, but the refusal to participate in military service.... among other things, based on which country they reside.

 

[ChristineM]

... are you sure that's how it ought to go?

This is a thread about religious persecution. Let's take a moment to think about that for a second and the implications of "no religion should be above the law" when we are dealing with religious persecution, specifically.

Yes i know what the thread is about, if people followed the law state religious persecution would not exist.

Why should religion be above the law?

The law is made for all the people, religion should not give people a cop out

 

[nPeace]

Thank you for the clarification.

Yeah, this is pretty horrendous stuff. To be honest, I looked up these countries and their policies expecting I would find that JW's were less of an exception and that a lot of these prohibitions on religion actually applied to a large number of different religions, but it really does seem like the JW's are being picked out for particularly bad treatment in a lot of cases.

The case in Russia is a good example of that.
If you read the article in the OP through, you would realize that Jehovah's Witnesses are targeted, for other reasons than is claimed. They are being framed.
Many people in Russia, realize this, as well as nations around.

U.S. and European Officials Denounce Russia’s Systematic Persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses
Ms. Murray concluded the UK’s statement by calling on Russia to end the persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Ms. Bahl urged Russia to: (1) cease criminal investigations against Jehovah’s Witnesses, (2) halt the seizure of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ headquarters property in Russia, and (3) immediately release all imprisoned Witnesses.

 

[Quintessence]

Yes i know what the thread is about, if people followed the law state religious persecution would not exist.

You... you do understand that the law is one of the major (if not the primary) means through which persecution happens, right? That it is the primary tool of oppression and institutionalized prejudice? That laws are crafted with the specific intent of throwing minorities and other unfavored groups under the bus and legitimizing persecution? You... do understand this, right?

Why should religion be above the law?

Gee, I don't know... maybe because the law is what is routinely used to persecute religious groups and throw them under the bus by the powerful majorities?

The law is made for all the people, religion should not give people a cop out

That's not what this thread is about. It's about religious persecution. Which is when laws are being made that throw someone under the bus because they are the wrong religion.

 

[Quintessence]

To add to the discussion about the problem of religious persecution, PEW does a regular global review of this across religious groups and nations. It... it's not pretty.

International Religious Freedom & Restrictions Archives

They look at it from multiple angles, too. Not just persecution of religions, but religions doing persecution.

 

[nPeace]

You... you do understand that the law is one of the major (if not the primary) means through which persecution happens, right? That it is the primary tool of oppression and institutionalized prejudice? That laws are crafted with the specific intent of throwing minorities and other unfavored groups under the bus and legitimizing persecution? You... do understand this, right?



Gee, I don't know... maybe because the law is what is routinely used to persecute religious groups and throw them under the bus by the powerful majorities?



That's not what this thread is about. It's about religious persecution. Which is when laws are being made that throw someone under the bus because they are the wrong religion.

You put it so accurately.
People... if they had their way, would get rid of certain religious groups, simply because they don't like that group... but they can't. It's out of their hands.
They don't have such authority... The government does.

 

[nPeace]

To add to the discussion about the problem of religious persecution, PEW does a regular global review of this across religious groups and nations. It... it's not pretty.

International Religious Freedom & Restrictions Archives

They look at it from multiple angles, too. Not just persecution of religions, but religions doing persecution.

I really appreciate this information.
It means a lot to me because of what the Bible says, concerning the events related to religion, and government in the final part of the days of this system of things.
Thank you kindly.

 

[Quintessence]

Looks like PEW has their own article mentioning that Jehovah's Witness are among the most persecuted groups worldwide.

"Jehovah’s Witnesses were banned in eight countries spanning the Asia-Pacific region, Europe and the Middle East-North Africa region. In Russia, for example, a 2017 decision by the nation’s Supreme Court banned Jehovah’s Witnesses, criminalizing their activities as being “extremist.” In 2019, hundreds of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia faced detentions, travel restrictions, investigations and raids on their homes."
41 countries ban religion-related groups; Jehovah’s Witnesses, Baha’is among the most commonly targeted​

Just... weird. In some respects it's hard for me to have sympathy for JW's given their proselytization techniques, but still.

 

[ChristineM]

You... do understand this, right?

Yes, what I don't understand is why any religion should consider itself above tje law.
I am atheist and pacifist, some countries i cannot visit because just being there breaks their laws. Some countries conscript women into their armed forces, If my country called me up for national service i would refuse and expect jail for my troubles.

Gee, I don't know.

Neither do i.

That's not what this thread is about. It's about religious persecution.

Using the law of the country to persecute when certain religions do not abide by the law

 

[nPeace]

Just... weird. In some respects it's hard for me to have sympathy for JW's given their proselytization techniques, but still.

We still love you. ...and you will be seeing more of us.
In fact, that "proselytizing" you mentioned... that will increase, and it's going to become more "unwelcomed", in a short time.

 

[ChristineM]

are you sure that's how it ought to go?

Let me clarify, it's not how i think it should go, but that's how it is.

 

[Eddi]

@nPeace

I totally reject your religion

However, I don't think your (or any) religion should be persecuted by any government so long as you are peaceful, which you appear to be

So yes, the persecution of JWs is morally wrong

 

[Vee]

So don't be a JW in Russia etc, the law is the law and no religion should be above the law

We are not the only group that Russia persecutes. They're very good at taking measures against minorities they don't like. Gay people, for example, are heavily persecuted. People of dark color aren't treated very well either. Should all those people just be okay with the law, even if they are peaceful, decent human beings who are not causing harm to others?