“God loves you anyway” – does He really?

[osgart]

Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion. The ideology of “do whatever you feel like and God will love you anyway” makes things easier, doesn’t it?

But from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t make any sense. Christians base their belief in the Bible, and the Bible contains a number of laws and principles that God himself requires people to follow. If it wasn’t important how people behave, He wouldn’t have bothered in the first place.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God? If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

One can talk about forgiveness, which is mentioned frequently in the Bible, but forgiveness applies when people repent and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?

According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.

Mercy is a far different kind of love than approval. So the question becomes should we be merciful as the bible commands?

 

[Mister Emu]

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion.

Or if you struggle with your failings as a human and you have a deity who is always willing to push and aid you in being better because He wants the best for you because he, you know, loves you.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God?

Pretty much the whole premise of Christianity is that no one deserves God's love.

If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

Because, He is greater than that.

I'm no scholar, and I could be wrong about this

You are. The bible is replete with confirmations that God's love is above and beyond our actions and comes before any acceptance of Him.

 

[Sunstone]

You are. The bible is replete with confirmations that God's love is above and beyond our actions and comes before any acceptance of Him.

Could you cite a few, please?

 

[syo]

Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims it must be cool to belong to that kind of religion. The ideology of “do whatever you feel like and God will love you anyway” makes things easier, doesn’t it?

But from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t make any sense. Christians base their belief in the Bible, and the Bible contains a number of laws and principles that God himself requires people to follow. If it wasn’t important how people behave, He wouldn’t have bothered in the first place.

So, for example, does a person who is violent towards others, a person who steals or someone who commits adultery deserve to be loved by God? If they are not obeying God’s commands, then they don’t care about Him, so why would he care about them?

One can talk about forgiveness, which is mentioned frequently in the Bible, but forgiveness applies when people repent and stop doing whatever they were doing wrong. If someone acts against God’s principles, apologizes and then goes back to doing the same thing, would it make any sense for God to overlook their behavior and just love them anyway?

According to what I’ve learned in the Bible, I don’t think so.

these people will be punished in the afterlife.

 

[Mister Emu]

Could you cite a few, please?

John 3:16
Ephesias 2:4-5
1 John 4:8, 10, 19
Romans 5:8
Titus 3:4

 

[metis]

I think that metaphor only goes so far. Rather, it doesn't go very far at all. If a person or god is jealous or hateful (and we at least know that the god of the bible self-identifies as jealous), there's not a lot of love there - even for their children. My wife's mother was like that, to the point where literally everyone left her. She didn't love her children, she possessed them and expected of them. Or more generally, look at that couple in California; can it be said that they loved their 13 children?

I think we can agree that if anyone abuses their children, they really don't love them.

As for the first part of your post, the Bible tends to portray God in anthropomorphic terms, so I personally don't get into that. There are many parts of scripture that I just reject out of hand, such as God supposedly ordering the Angel of Death to slaughter innocent children in the Passover narrative.

 

[Sunstone]

John 3:16
Ephesias 2:4-5
1 John 4:8, 10, 19
Romans 5:8
Titus 3:4

I'm afraid I don't find those passages indicative of unconditional love.

 

[dfnj]

Unlike us, God knows the heart, it is God's forgiveness that was the question.

Is it me or do people just have a complete lack of faith in God's omnipotence? Think about this very carefully. God knew exactly what was going to happen to the apple in the garden with naked woman prancing about. God knows exactly who we are and all we will ever be.

It's not really free-will unless you have omnipotent powers to control your choices in life. Since we are all finite and have no control over what choices are presented to us, there's has to be a bit of forgiveness when it comes to human behavior. As someone said in a previous post, a parent's love never stops regardless of the sins.

The real purpose of this thread is Christians like to judge other people. It's just what they do. They call it love but it's really hate.

 

[savagewind]

I'm afraid I don't find those passages indicative of unconditional love.

The World and sin are synonymous so because God loves a sinning world, it proves that God's love is unconditional.

 

[dfnj]

these people will be punished in the afterlife.

Why would God carry out man's justice. I think the opposite will happen. God will love and embrace even the worse sinners. You want justice then it's all up to secular laws.

 

[dfnj]

The World and sin are synonymous so because God loves a sinning world, it proves that God's love is unconditional.

Who are we to judge God's creation. We can only judge ourselves. I act morally because of the golden rule. I have empathy because I am not a psychopath. So I don't like hurting people. It has NOTHING to do with God. As far as I can tell God is completely indifferent to the affairs of man. Hurricanes are acts of physics not acts of God.

 

[savagewind]

Who are we to judge God's creation. We can only judge ourselves. I act morally because of the golden rule. I have empathy because I am not a psychopath. So I don't like hurting people. It has NOTHING to do with God. As far as I can tell God is completely indifferent to the affairs of man. Hurricanes are acts of physics not acts of God.

I am a Bible believer so I can't also believe that God is indifferent to the affairs of Humankind. In fact, I think that God's Name is all about what humankind is becoming.

 

[dfnj]

Why does sin even matter. After you die and you face God you would think our omnipotent God would use his omnipotent powers to rehabilitate even the very worse sinner who could have ever existed. No one would be able to resist God's omnipotent powers of persuasion to light side of the force. An omnipotent God certainly has the power to save everyone. And I think we can assume an omnipotent creator God loves every piece of His creation equally so He would want to save it all.

I never understood why salvation is so important to God. It's not like God will die if not enough people make it into Heaven. Christianity is mental chewing gum for weak minded people.

 

[syo]

Why would God carry out man's justice. I think the opposite will happen. God will love and embrace even the worse sinners. You want justice then it's all up to secular laws.

i disagree. men are full of flaws, they can't be good judges.

 

[dfnj]

I am a Bible believer so I can't also believe that God is indifferent to the affairs of Humankind. In fact, I think that God's Name is all about what humankind is becoming.

Based on human experiments, there is no amount of unnecessary evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will. Have you ever heard God policing people to act morally by bellowing commands from the clouds? I haven't.

I get that a lot people believe in a personal God who is like an imaginary friend. But as far as I can tell, associating events and experiences in our lives as being caused by God is just silly superstitious thinking.

As far as I can tell, God created the Universe and the laws of physics. And now He is just a passive observer. Nature is relentless in executing the laws of physics. I have not seen God directly intervene in front of my eyes. Have you?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

God is not jealous like humans get jealous. God is jealous for love in that God knows there is one just way for Earth's souls and that is what God is jealous of.

And that still falls in line with human jealousy. I grow so tired of this "wordplay" game, as it never does anything. If your god is "god-jealous" rather than "human-jealous", then perhaps he shouldn't have used the word "jealous".

Yet my point on love and parents still stands.

 

[Mister Emu]

I'm afraid I don't find those passages indicative of unconditional love.

I would hope you acknowledge that they plainly state what I've said, that God's love comes before we love/accept Him and while we are "dead" and sinners(and therefore irrespective of our actions).

 

[savagewind]

Why does sin even matter.

Sin neglects the community. In fact, some sins destroy communities. Sinning raises the opinion of the sinner over others. Sin causes pain and death.

Maybe the right question should be; why does the knowledge of sin matter? If people would just care about each other there would be no need to have rules and penalties to prevent sinning.

 

[savagewind]

Based on human experiments, there is no amount of unnecessary evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will. Have you ever heard God policing people to act morally by bellowing commands from the clouds? I haven't.

I get that a lot people believe in a personal God who is like an imaginary friend. But as far as I can tell, associating events and experiences in our lives as being caused by God is just silly superstitious thinking.

As far as I can tell, God created the Universe and the laws of physics. And now He is just a passive observer. Nature is relentless in executing the laws of physics. I have not seen God directly intervene in front of my eyes. Have you?

Yes.

 

[dfnj]

Over the years I’ve heard a number of religious personalities from different so called Christian religions say that God loves everyone, He loves people no matter what. The last time I heard that was very recently.

I understand that from the perspective of people who don’t like to obey anything except their own whims

It really is a religion of authoritarianism. It is MORE important to obey than anything else. Worship authority fore authority's sake. The religion is designed to be a complete dislocation of one's own inner authority. Always listen to someone else because they know better. Always listen to someone else because they are in charge. It's a really sick religion. I'm not sure there is anything more evil than manipulating the weak minded for the purpose of power and control.