“God loves you anyway” – does He really?

[dfnj]

Sin neglects the community. In fact, some sins destroy communities. Sinning raises the opinion of the sinner over others. Sin causes pain and death.

Maybe the right question should be; why does the knowledge of sin matter? If people would just care about each other there would be no need to have rules and penalties to prevent sinning.

I meant why does sin matter to God. God is omnipotent and needs absolutely nothing from us. You don't accept God has omnipotent powers?

 

[InChrist]

Why does sin even matter. After you die and you face God you would think our omnipotent God would use his omnipotent powers to rehabilitate even the very worse sinner who could have ever existed. No one would be able to resist God's omnipotent powers of persuasion to light side of the force. An omnipotent God certainly has the power to save everyone. And I think we can assume an omnipotent creator God loves every piece of His creation equally so He would want to save it all.

I never understood why salvation is so important to God. It's not like God will die if not enough people make it into Heaven. Christianity is mental chewing gum for weak minded people.

I think sin matters because sin is destructive and therefore it must be eliminated in God's ultimate plan. Salvation is important for us rather than God. As you say He doesn't need enough people or anyone in heaven, yet because He desires to share His love He offers to save any who wants freedom from the destruction of sin. Though God is omnipotent, I believe He only has the power to save those who willing choose to change and respond to His love...for the simple reason that true love cannot be forced.

 

[dfnj]

i disagree. men are full of flaws, they can't be good judges.

Secular justice is all we have. Why would you abdicate your responsibilities to clean up your own sins? You want justice then it's up to us to get it. Take Hitler for example. Every person Hitler sinned against is enjoying eternal heavenly bliss. So what difference does it make what Hitler did during his finite life really matter on the bigger scale. Everyone Hitler hurt is doing better than just fine.

 

[dfnj]

I think sin matters because sin is destructive and therefore it must be eliminated in God's ultimate plan.

I wish I was able to speak for God. What is God's ultimate plan?

 

[savagewind]

And that still falls in line with human jealousy. I grow so tired of this "wordplay" game, as it never does anything. If your god is "god-jealous" rather than "human-jealous", then perhaps he shouldn't have used the word "jealous".

Yet my point on love and parents still stands.

I can't agree with you that the kind of jealousy which is protective of its love is the same as the human jealousy which is envious and suspicious. I am not saying that humans can't also exhibit that god-like jealousy too. But human jealousy is selfish. The jealousy of God is only for the benefit of humankind. I think it means that God will never abandon God's will for our eternal benefit.

 

[syo]

Secular justice is all we have. Why would you abdicate your responsibilities to clean up your own sins? You want justice then it's up to us to get it. Take Hitler for example. Every person Hitler sinned against is enjoying eternal heavenly bliss. So what difference does it make what Hitler did during his finite life really matter on the bigger scale. Everyone Hitler hurt is doing better than just fine.

we are responsible for our actions and based on our actions we will live in the afterlife. hitler won't have a happy afterlife, his own lifetime was that of misery, so he is going to hell. people forget that our time on earth is limited and not more important than our afterlife.

 

[InChrist]

I wish I was able to speak for God. What is God's ultimate plan?

Have you read the Bible?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Ok...ok...I'm admittedly guessing. But here's what the guess is based on: So far as I believe, there is a kind of experience, which I call "the mystical experience", that is often (but not always) described as an experience of god by people who have undergone it.

Got it. I get the same thing when I think of MysticSang'ha.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I can't agree with you that the kind of jealousy which is protective of its love is the same as the human jealousy which is envious and suspicious. I am not saying that humans can't also exhibit that god-like jealousy too. But human jealousy is selfish. The jealousy of God is only for the benefit of humankind. I think it means that God will never abandon God's will for our eternal benefit.

Jealousy is jealousy, and it is petty and possessive. There is no such thing as "protective jealousy".

 

[savagewind]

Jealousy is jealousy, and it is petty and possessive. There is no such thing as "protective jealousy".

Yes, there is. God, of course, is able to take perfect care of what God possesses. God possesses the knowledge of the way in which each person might go. That is what God is jealous of, imho.

 

[savagewind]

Jealousy is petty and possessive. .

Why not imagine that you have a child and that child was taken from you. Petty and possessive?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

God possesses the knowledge of the way in which each person might go. That is what God is jealous of, imho.

Then your god is petty and possessive of a person's spirituality. Just because Christians have spiritual Stockholme Syndrome doesn't mean the rest of us need play along with Christian wordplay.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Why not imagine that you have a child and that child was taken from you. Petty and possessive?

I'm not your god's child, though.

 

[savagewind]

Then your god is petty and possessive of a person's spirituality. Just because Christians have spiritual Stockholme Syndrome doesn't mean the rest of us need play along with Christian wordplay.

You can imagine that I mean a person's spiritual life, but what I mean is a person's whole life. God knows what is best for each one of us. All of it.

 

[savagewind]

I'm not your god's child, though.

I have children. When they were young there was a lot on the news about child abduction. I was terrified. I was jealous for them which just means that they are mine and the thought that someone might take them away from me made me so much more protective of them it wasn't healthy for them or for me. Playing outside alone like we used to do as children? Nope. It wasn't going to happen. Why? Because I was jealous for them,

 

[pearl]

a parent's love never stops regardless of the sins.

And in various passages the love of God who cares for his people is shown to be like that of a mother:
"But Zion said, 'The Lord has forsaken me, my Lord has forgotten me'. 'Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you'".

God knows exactly who we are and all we will ever be.

Because past and future are present to God at once.

It's not really free-will unless you have omnipotent powers to control your choices in life. Since we are all finite and have no control over what choices are presented to us, there's has to be a bit of forgiveness when it comes to human behavior.

Its true we do not have control over choices presented to us. Life is a roll of the dice, a crap shoot. We hope and believe in God given strength to overcome what ever hand we are dealt. But we do have control over the choices we make to act in response.

The real purpose of this thread is Christians like to judge other people.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing? Sounds like judgment to me.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

You can imagine that I mean a person's spiritual life, but what I mean is a person's whole life. God knows what is best for each one of us. All of it.

That fits so many indications of an abusive relationship that it's not really even funny.

I have children. When they were young there was a lot on the news about child abduction. I was terrified. I was jealous for them which just means that they are mine and the thought that someone might take them away from me made me so much more protective of them it wasn't healthy for them or for me. Playing outside alone like we used to do as children? Nope. It wasn't going to happen. Why? Because I was jealous for them,

No, you were protective of them against predators. Jealousy in regards to children would be the mother who hates their souls son's girlfriend because she's "taking him from her" or some such nonesense.

If your god is "protective of his children" then perhaps that word should have been used. It wasn't.

And I'm still not a child of your god. As with all cases of jealousy, he has no right to be jealous of me. (Or protective, for that matter.)

 

[savagewind]

That fits so many indications of an abusive relationship that it's not really even funny.


No, you were protective of them against predators. Jealousy in regards to children would be the mother who hates their souls son's girlfriend because she's "taking him from her" or some such nonesense.

If your god is "protective of his children" then perhaps that word should have been used. It wasn't.

And I'm still not a child of your god. As with all cases of jealousy, he has no right to be jealous of me. (Or protective, for that matter.)

I do not doubt that you are just thirty.

God is not jealous of anyone else. Simply put, God is jealous of God. Since God is the source of all life God protects the source as though jealous of it. Jealousy is like multiplying times two how God deals with soul.

I didn't even say that God protects God's children. Did I? There will always be The Way because God's jealousy is with it.
God created it. God protects it AND God is jealous for it. See? Can you possibly see the difference between jealous for and jealous of?

 

[savagewind]

That fits so many indications of an abusive relationship that it's not really even funny.

Is tutoring an abusive profession, in your opinion? How about the job of a life coach, is that evil? Is to trust in medicine stupid? How about special diets? Dumb?

Actually, it is funny. You are making me laugh.

 

[osgart]

I don't see selfish motives being a bad thing. How are you going to love others if you can't love yourself? And if you dont take care of yourself, how are you going to care for someone else.

I think also jealousy is different than envy. With jealousy comes deserved belonging; what truly belongs to you you will be jealous over. Envy is the evil thing where someone wants what ain't there's to begin with, or they wish they were somebody else, or someone else's life.

Now the bible declares that all humans are undeserving and sinful. And all must repent. Sin is evil from what I understand. Like going down the road toward Hell. I don't know if there are different degrees of sin or it's all to the same degree.

This doesn't seem like a healthy view of the world. It ignores the power of heart choice to choose good that people have.
While it's true that many people gravitate toward evil desires, is that really true of all humanity?

In reality we all must have defenses for this reason. Evil leads toward destruction, and goodness leads to life civilization. America has qualities of goodness in it still after all these years. Why? Because we don't believe in unrestrained power and might, and we have a wise foundation of law. Everyone is subject to the law, and our freedoms ensure that nothing is immune to judgment and criticism, and scrutiny. And where does the love of mercy fit into this? In reality wrongdoers can repent and some do.

I guess we all need to assess the value of our souls, or lives in terms of justice and
The nature of intention. I ask myself this very thing, do I have good intentions that promote peace and freedom? And I ask it about others as well.

So I think it's a fact that freedom and civilization itself is built on love, mercy, wisdom, and the power of those three things. I realize some people are beyond mercy. But clear lines of justice and compassion must be defended. After all what do we all want for ourselves? We want safety, and peace, love and to contribute, or perhaps many just want power, control, and pleasure, and renowned reputations. I think the moral push and pull will always be there. And the fight for right and what's good is always more than worth it.