God= Higher states of Consciousness

Unveiled Artist said:

I'll be honest CT that a synonym rather than a definition. It's like using mystical jargon to talk about a concept it's hard for you to define.

Why do you use spiritual jargon to describe a state of mind without ego. I think people would understand the latter than the words god, divine, etc. These are vague subjective terms...not so much a group of people can't understand it just the way it's understood (say God) is different.

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The OP and the other answer was given was an attempt to explain what has become a realization of what God is. If your understanding of God is different it means you have a different understanding, nothing wrong with that.

Why use spiritual jargon? Because everything about life is spirituality and is is the theme of the OP

Sirona said:

1. I know you're not a Hindu so I can't expect you to accept the rules for the Hinduism DIR, but IMHO the basis for a civilized spiritual discussion is the basic acceptance that the other's spiritual experience is valid. Not "higher", not "lower", but equally valid.

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Someone can appreciate that all states of consciousness, both lower and higher states are equally valid for what they are, and why they are. But we have to be careful to do that by denying that there are such things as lower and higher states, or that that higher is better than lower in certain regards. That is unfactual. A state of love, is energetically a higher state of consciousness than hatred is. Compassion is higher, and of greater value than indifference is. Sacrifice is a higher state than greed is. And so forth.

There is nothing wrong with saying that love is better than greed. It is more life-affirming, and therefore of greater of higher value than that which is life-denying. If we are worried about the ego saying "I am better than you, because I love and you don't", then address that directly. Address pride and arrogance as a distortion, or a co-opting of higher states for a lower state's benefit (the ego). Don't fallaciously try to say that those who love and those who don't are of equal value. They are not.

Sirona said:

2. On a personal level, it's getting somewhat tiresome to always hear the same loop of tape about how exceptionally high one's spiritual training/experience allegedly has become. Maybe some people get a kick out of such a statement, but I think its totally useless.

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It is useless because that's the ego trying to bolster itself. But to try to deny that there is such a thing as higher states vs. lower states, is actually a subtle way for the ego to protect the ego, by denying it needs to move beyond itself. "I'm ok just as I am, leave me alone", is the ego. Yes, get rid of boastings about being at higher states, because that is the ego speaking. But keep the higher states as valid reality, and let go of the ego to actually exist at those higher states, beyond the ego itself.

You may want to read post #14 I just posted above, as that might help clarify some of this: God= Higher states of Consciousness

PureX said:

I think we need to be wary of assuming that "higher" states of consciousness are superior states of consciousness. Especially when the higher state we are referring to is our own.

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I know very well that it is not a level I have reached in my current understanding

PureX said:

I think we need to be wary of assuming that "higher" states of consciousness are superior states of consciousness. Especially when the higher state we are referring to is our own.

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We need to be wary that the ego is not getting in there, trying to imagine that higher state is something it accomplished. We do not need to wary that higher states are an actuality, which they are. We need to be wary of the ego. It is a sly creature, bent on self preservation at all costs. "I am spiritual" can be a statement of fact on the one hand, and a boast of the ego on the other. It depends what the source of the claim is.

Windwalker said:

We need to be wary that the ego is not getting in there, trying to imagine that higher state is something it accomplished. We do not need to wary that higher states are an actuality, which they are. We need to be wary of the ego. It is a sly creature, bent on self preservation at all costs. "I am spiritual" can be a statement of fact on the one hand, and a boast of the ego on the other. It depends what the source of the claim is.

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And that there is always a "higher state" than the one we have attained.

Conscious thoughts said:

The OP and the other answer was given was an attempt to explain what has become a realization of what God is. If your understanding of God is different it means you have a different understanding, nothing wrong with that.

Why use spiritual jargon? Because everything about life is spirituality and is is the theme of the OP

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Spiritual jargon, when talking to a group of people of various religions and lack thereof, isn't understood by all people. So when understanding words like higher consciousness and god its foreign or others have a negative history behind it. So, a state of mind without ego is much clearer from the get-go. Unless you're asking believers and not people in general?

Conscious thoughts said:

This OP will probably make some believers angry at the OP starter, and that is totally fine But when there is a deeper realization of what God is and others who have not yet had the realization, read it, they will maybe try to defend their own understanding of God. That is also ok to do,

So to say out aloud God is a higher state of consciousness and God is within everything. What happens to your thoughts when reading this? (no it is not a challenge)

Is this topic even possible to discuss in a gentle manner?

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You believe God is "within everything" right? What do you mean "within everything"? Does that mean God is not everything but is within everything?

Do you understand the question?

Unveiled Artist said:

Spiritual jargon, when talking to a group of people of various religions and lack thereof, isn't understood by all people. So when understanding words like higher consciousness and god its foreign or others have a negative history behind it. So, a state of mind without ego is much clearer from the get-go. Unless you're asking believers and not people in general?

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the OP was meant for everyone, but there is a reason why it was mention that some people would have a reation to the text in the OP, I did not expect it to be the atheists who would react

firedragon said:

You believe God is "within everything" right? What do you mean "within everything"? Does that mean God is not everything but is within everything?

Do you understand the question?

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God is everything and with that, God is within everything.

I argue that a higher state of consciousness combined with a higher state of intellect will NOT equal God, or any other ambiguous and vague concept.

Conscious thoughts said:

God is everything and with that, God is within everything.

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Okay. So God is everything and within everything right? This is your theology. Correct?

PureX said:

I think we need to be wary of assuming that "higher" states of consciousness are superior states of consciousness. Especially when the higher state we are referring to is our own.

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I suggest any sort of "higher state of consciousness" would be how a person can access their subconscious better the the average person. The subconscious is where most of out decisions take place.

firedragon said:

Okay. So God is everything and within everything right? This is your theology. Correct?

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Theology?
the OP is an attempt on explaining something that I realized, That does not mean it is a final answer to what God truly are, it also does not mean other people has to understand it is the same way that I do.

Conscious thoughts said:

Theology?
the OP is an attempt on explaining something that I realized, That does not mean it is a final answer to what God truly are, it also does not mean other people has to understand it is the same way that I do.

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I didnt say that others have to agree with you or you have to agree with others or anything of the sort. It was just a clarifying question from you.

But it seems like you are not willing to engage in discussion. So I shall withdraw from it. Have a great day.

Unveiled Artist said:

Spiritual jargon, when talking to a group of people of various religions and lack thereof, isn't understood by all people. So when understanding words like higher consciousness and god its foreign or others have a negative history behind it. So, a state of mind without ego is much clearer from the get-go. Unless you're asking believers and not people in general?

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It's always a bit of a conundrum. There are 'higher states pf consciousness', for sure. But are they necessarily better states of consciousness? That question brings up criteria, which is a gumbo of subjective relativism.

Also, what is the relationship between higher states of consciousness and lower states of consciousness? Because it seems to me those lower states of consciousness will resist acknowledging any other states but those considered to be lower, still. Everyone thinks everyone else knows less than they do about the truth of what is. And so will tend to resit any implication to the contrary.

I am smarter than a lot of the people posting here. I know this. But not one of the people I am smarter than, here, is going to acknowledge this. And if I dare to suggest to them that I am smarter than they are (about anything), and I try to show them why, they will stoop to any and every idiotic means they can muster to reject learning anything from me. Which is why they are not very smart in the first place. And this makes me question the value of being smarter than most people around us. The world we live in is not much interested in how smart we are because it's populated by people that tend to reject intelligence for comfort, and out of an unfettered ego, when they should be embracing it out of humility and curiosity.

I see the term "higher consciousness" as an expression of expanded awareness. Of gaining a broader and more expansive view of 'what is'. And the greatest impediment to attaining this higher consciousness is assuming that, when we encounter it, it's false, because our ego is pricked by any implication that our current state of consciousness is in any way inadequate. Which places all our various states of conscious awareness at enmity with each other, foolishly and unnecessarily.

The idiot insists that for you to be right, you must prove him wrong, even as he fights tooth and nail, and quite irrationally, to stop you from doing so. It's exhausting, and nearly always pointless. Like banging one's head against a brick wall hoping it will somehow cease to be made of brick. So what is the superior advantage of obtaining this higher state of consciousness? Is it really a higher state of consciousness if it only brings added difficulty? "Superior", compared to what?

"Compared to what?" is a very important question to ask when we're presuming value, I think. Unfortunately, it always seems to bring us back to that gumbo of relative and subjective criteria.

Conscious thoughts said:

This OP will probably make some believers angry at the OP starter, and that is totally fine But when there is a deeper realization of what God is and others who have not yet had the realization, read it, they will maybe try to defend their own understanding of God. That is also ok to do,

So to say out aloud God is a higher state of consciousness and God is within everything. What happens to your thoughts when reading this? (no it is not a challenge)

Is this topic even possible to discuss in a gentle manner?

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I have no idea what a "higher stateof consciousness" actually means. To be conscious to be aware, and to be aware of being aware. What comes after that? And would whatever that is come to "equal" God?

Conscious thoughts said:

It is the other way around, It seems like some people are allergic to the word God, so instead of saying God, it is an attempt to explain what @Conscious thought realized what the "God thing" really is.

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Why would God be "higher consciousness"?

When I hear that sort of language, I usually assume that the person is trying to make their habitual drug use out to be a religion, but my impression is that you don't do drugs... so I'm not sure why you would use that language.

Windwalker said:

Someone can appreciate that all states of consciousness, both lower and higher states are equally valid for what they are, and why they are. But we have to be careful to do that by denying that there are such things as lower and higher states, or that that higher is better than lower in certain regards. That is unfactual. A state of love, is energetically a higher state of consciousness than hatred is. Compassion is higher, and of greater value than indifference is. Sacrifice is a higher state than greed is. And so forth.

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Thanks for your insight. However, I didn't have that in mind at all. I rather thought about the problems of different religions, rather like "You may have spiritual insight into the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but I have spiritual insight into the Pink Invisible Unicorn, and thus my spiritual insight is better because the Pink Invisible Unicorn is the God that I do believe in and you don't." Maybe I'm wrong, but I think genuine spiritual training may lead to some common ground of experience between different religions.

As for "higher and lower states of consciousness", I understood @Conscious thoughts in such a way that he was referring to states which can only be achieved after prolonged meditation or whatever practice he follows (opposed to our "everyday mind") as this is what he usually writes about. But in internet communication forums, context can often be lost.

One ironic thing I find about religious claims that "higher states of consciousness = God" is what is the underlying motive of this suggestion or claim. I'm typically suspicious of theists and what they say as many tend to reveal that they are seeking ways to validate their irrational beliefs, and doing so to exploit those who have more profound experiences. For example I've seen some theists suggest that even atheists have faith, or that the freedom from religion means they aren't protected from the things religion states are problems, like hell. Atheists have more freedom.

But what is a higher state of consciousness, just more fervent belief and the euphoria from a religious experience? Those are chemicals in the brain induced from the power of the imagination. In my experience a higher state of consciousness includes stripping away beliefs to have a more authentic and unencumbered conscious experience. So when I see theists trying to take these non-ideological experiences and abduct them for religious purpose I'm thinking fraud, greed, insecurity, theft, etc. It only makes religion look more desperate, that it can't meet the spiritual needs to believers, and that it is essentially a fraud at its core.

I find little spiritual about a head full of religious concepts. That creates illusion, not clarity. The person becomes an agent for a set ideas, not free to explore the experience of mind.

Conscious thoughts said:

This OP will probably make some believers angry at the OP starter, and that is totally fine But when there is a deeper realization of what God is and others who have not yet had the realization, read it, they will maybe try to defend their own understanding of God. That is also ok to do,

So to say out aloud God is a higher state of consciousness and God is within everything. What happens to your thoughts when reading this? (no it is not a challenge)

Is this topic even possible to discuss in a gentle manner?

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I don’t agree with God being a higher state of consciousness. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. (See Isaiah 55:8-9 )

I’m not sure how you interpret God as within everything. I see God as the source of all life. As a person, I am dependent on God for life and breath.