• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

God= Higher states of Consciousness

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So to say out aloud God is a higher state of consciousness and God is within everything. What happens to your thoughts when reading this?

Nothing. The words have no meaning to me. It's not just that I don't know what you mean by either God or a higher state of consciousness, whatever meaning I give those terms, I still end up with an idea that I can't use for anything.

God is everything and with that, God is within everything.

This, too. Whatever this means, let's stipulate to it. OK. God is everything and within everything. Great. How is that knowledge useful? How would one use that information if it were correct? How has it helped you?
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Nothing. The words have no meaning to me. It's not just that I don't know what you mean by either God or a higher state of consciousness, whatever meaning I give those terms, I still end up with an idea that I can't use for anything.



This, too. Whatever this means, let's stipulate to it. OK. God is everything and within everything. Great. How is that knowledge useful? How would one use that information if it were correct? How has it helped you?
Exactly!

This seems to be what religious discussion largely consists of -- using words that sound "big" and "mysterious" and "magical," but which don't seem to convey much meaning when you actually try and parse the sentences they're used in.

I think of the frequent use of the term "higher power." Okay, I can suppose that there are things more powerful than I am, or nations more powerful than Canada, and so forth, but if those things decide never to exercise their power -- to keep it hidden from me -- then what does it mean to me?

It's like the "Prime Directive" of Star Trek -- non-interference. So it may be that this planet is being observed by some species with just such a Prime Directive, and if so -- well, so what? If their highest motive is to be hidden from us, then it has no meaning for us.

Same with God. Higher Power? Okay, maybe -- but if He's not exercising it, then He is totally inconsequential down here where us lower powers operate.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
the OP was meant for everyone, but there is a reason why it was mention that some people would have a reation to the text in the OP, I did not expect it to be the atheists who would react

Some atheists have ill opinions about the word god so their definitions would be more critical than yours would or those who agree with your line of thinking with spirituality. For me vagueness frustrates me in conversations. The word god (and higher consciousness) are vague words. Conversations about vague words and subjective experiences you'd expect more questions and critiques.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
the OP was meant for everyone, but there is a reason why it was mention that some people would have a reation to the text in the OP, I did not expect it to be the atheists who would react

@Evangelicalhumanist and @It Aint Necessarily So articulated my points better than me.

However, to me the words can mean something for others if their spirituality is dependent on language and things of that nature. It doesn't work in a general discussion unless you "translate" or give context to what you mean by some of the words used.
 

ameyAtmA

~ ~
Premium Member
2. On a personal level, it's getting somewhat tiresome to always hear the same loop of tape about how exceptionally high one's spiritual training/experience allegedly has become. Maybe some people get a kick out of such a statement, but I think its totally useless. Those who "have seen", "have seen". There's no need to prove this to each other.

However the problem lies in the reader's interpretation, comprehension and making conclusions more often than not.

1. Suppose for a moment that your observation is accurate about posts you read, even if so, why does it bother you? If it is tiresome, don't read. Simple. But then how else are people to share their knowledge and experience to those who repeatedly ask about it?

2. My experience is the opposite. If someone does appear to have seen , no matter how much they disguise it, it gives me great pleasure and delight , to know they have seen, and in fact I might pester them to tell me more! It just makes me very happy! I am happy for those who are not on the same external path as I may be on.

3. Somehow this surprisingly common trait of feeling a dislike towards another person's apparently involuntarily visible favorable position (be it in the material or quasi-spiritual area) is exactly right in the center of mAyA, and that is what has to be transcended. It is seen everywhere unfortunately.

4. Did you know this is why the Adi yogis loved ekAnta? Because the moment they go into the world they face jealousy, envy and hostility. In Treta, dvapar and Satyug, it was not so bad.
So the best is to bypass the world. This is why some paths advice seclusion and not congregation, which becomes an unnecessary overhead.

5. How much more are those people (who according to you are on the other side of the fence for the sake of this discussion) required to walk that tight rope of guiding you without getting judged the way some people interpret & judge them? How else are they supposed to bring to you the message that yes, there is something out there?

In fact, it should be their turn to say "it is tiresome to say or post anything to anyone without getting accused or labeled" is it not?

Just think, all those spiritual masters who give discourses, have to spend a huge amount of energy , which I would call a huge overhead, in explaining to their audience, or doing what is good for them, without leaving any trace. What a waste of their energy!

This is nothing personal directed towards you, @Sirona, I think you have a very good understanding of spirituality, but I am just encouraging people in general to think in this angle.
 
Last edited:

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And that there is always a "higher state" than the one we have attained.
I would rather term it "realized" than attained. Attained sounds like it's done through effort, which the ego can pat itself on the back of having accomplished. The only thing necessary is to get out of the way, and that's not an accomplishment. It's giving up effort.

In a certain sense yes, there is always a "higher" state, since Consciousness is Infinite. But as far as human experience goes, there are maps that show what the highest possible currently are. Which is the nondual at the top, at this point in human evolution. Once we get out of this body altogether, then 'skies the limit' as they say. :)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Here's a definition of the word higher consciousness: “Higher consciousness is a state of elevated awareness and perception in which a person has a deeper understanding of the nature of reality, the self and various spiritual aspects of life that play an important role in one’s personal evolution and psychological development.” 6 Phases of Higher Consciousness (First resource that came up in Google)

"Deeper understanding of the nature of reality"

I wouldn't equate this to the term god since common abrahamic use of the world speaks of it as a person or being that acts, feels, and has ethics and edicts. Elevated state of mind and awareness isn't a being but an experience (using these terms to comment).
 

ameyAtmA

~ ~
Premium Member
I'm not sure how slapping the label "God" on "a higher state of consciousness" would be coherent or meaningful. Using the term this way would be likely to cause confusion, IMO.
It is coherent in this field because the understanding is that God is that highest state of being that descended from the highest into slightly lower and even lower states to manifest the world. So when beings here transcend at least a few of those layers, they are moving towards that state. It is all relative.

|
|
|
V
A
|
|
|
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thanks for your insight. However, I didn't have that in mind at all. I rather thought about the problems of different religions, rather like "You may have spiritual insight into the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but I have spiritual insight into the Pink Invisible Unicorn, and thus my spiritual insight is better because the Pink Invisible Unicorn is the God that I do believe in and you don't." Maybe I'm wrong, but I think genuine spiritual training may lead to some common ground of experience between different religions.
Absolutely I agree. It's when we move beyond our concepts of the Divine into actual realized experience, then we have common ground in Unitive Consciousness. I'm going to make a statement from Meister Eckhart my mantra, "I pray God make me free of God, that I may know God in his unconditioned being".
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Have you guys (those appropriate) considered knowing or experiencing god/higher consciousness through what you do rather than what you know?

If you wanted someone to experience higher consciousness would you want them to understand it as a clear state of mind and/or does it also make sense to look at it as an action or expression (what you do on a daily basis for example)?

Which is stronger-clear state of mind or action?
If to entertain another perspective than the common definition of the term
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Have you guys (those appropriate) considered knowing or experiencing god/higher consciousness through what you do rather than what you know?
It's not conceptual, if that's what you mean. Those that intellectualize the Divine, are looking at an image of their minds, which is conditioned through language, which is dualistic in nature, not nondual, or nonlinear. "Knowing God" is more like knowing the taste of an orange. If someone says "I believe in God", what is the source of that belief? The mind, or experience?

It is knowledge through experience, not through intellectualizing. It's a knowledge of the heart, which both precedes and transcends the rational mind. It is nonverbal in nature, non-rational, but not irrational or in violation of reason.

If you wanted someone to experience higher consciousness would you want them to understand it as a clear state of mind and/or does it also make sense to look at it as an action or expression (what you do on a daily basis for example)?
Yes. Letting go of seeking confirmation of our ideas is key. Nothing wrong with having an image in your mind, so long as you are willing to set that aside and let Knowledge inform.

It's like that story of the Zen master teaching a student by pouring tea into his cup and letting it overflow the cup all over the place. The lesson is you have to empty your cup in order to receive truth. So if you have an idea already which you "believe in" your cup is already full. You have to empty it in order to receive.

I think the best rule of thumb is to have a receptive mind, one which allows Truth, without judgements, without labeling it. I say that meditation practice is an exercise in learning how to allow, to get out of the way and receive, to be open.

Which is stronger-clear state of mind or action?
If to entertain another perspective than the common definition of the term
I like how the Buddhist describe it, something to the effect of opening a windowless window. It's an effort, or action, to make no effort or action. That's why it's not an accomplishment. It's nothing you 'attain", or 'achieve' which are done through effort. It's something you already are. You don't 'attain' or achieve your lungs, do you?

The only effort, is to make no effort. To seek to not seek. To untrain the egoic self to seek to achieve. It's all about simply learning how to allow. And that is a state of Openness.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
This OP will probably make some believers angry at the OP starter, and that is totally fine :) But when there is a deeper realization of what God is and others who have not yet had the realization, read it, they will maybe try to defend their own understanding of God. That is also ok to do,

So to say out aloud God is a higher state of consciousness and God is within everything. What happens to your thoughts when reading this? (no it is not a challenge)

Is this topic even possible to discuss in a gentle manner?


You have only to use the word God on this forum, and no matter what the context, you will anger someone. Don’t ask me why, I’ve no idea. But there it is.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I would rather term it "realized" than attained. Attained sounds like it's done through effort, which the ego can pat itself on the back of having accomplished. The only thing necessary is to get out of the way, and that's not an accomplishment. It's giving up effort.
I agree, but for a lot of folks, that, in itself, is an accomplishment. :) It's probably the single most difficult thing to do for addicts in recovery: to just let go, and follow the path of recovery, instead of trying to 'control' it.
In a certain sense yes, there is always a "higher" state, since Consciousness is Infinite. But as far as human experience goes, there are maps that show what the highest possible currently are. Which is the nondual at the top, at this point in human evolution. Once we get out of this body altogether, then 'skies the limit' as they say. :)
I suspect that once one has achieved that "oneness", they will realize that they started there, long ago. :)
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I agree, but for a lot of folks, that, in itself, is an accomplishment. :) It's probably the single most difficult thing to do for addicts in recovery: to just let go, and follow the path of recovery, instead of trying to 'control' it.
It's an ironic thing, that addicts in recovery are probably much closer to the Truth, than those who imagine they are in control of their lives. The 1st step is about surrender, and that's something few without a state of despair come to the place to do. As they say, it usually takes some form of trauma to wake folks up out of the illusion of control.

I suspect that once one has achieved that "oneness", they will realize that they started there, long ago. :)
Yes, that's a common realization. "It's never been anywhere but fully here". Enlightenment is our fundamental Nature. The only thing hard about it is to let go of all the obstacles that get placed in front of it, either by culture or our own selves, fearing letting go, or "dying to self". That's why "letting go" is key. Practice living as if we are dying, I think is a good way to realize that. In death, all that stuff falls away. So do it now. Those who lay down their lives, shall find Life.
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
This OP will probably make some believers angry at the OP starter, and that is totally fine :) But when there is a deeper realization of what God is and others who have not yet had the realization, read it, they will maybe try to defend their own understanding of God. That is also ok to do,

So to say out aloud God is a higher state of consciousness and God is within everything. What happens to your thoughts when reading this? (no it is not a challenge)

Is this topic even possible to discuss in a gentle manner?


Dear Conscious thoughts,

What do you mean by what happens to my thoughts when I read this…? Do you mean; what do I think about what you wrote… or is this a “bigger” question?

Humbly
Hermit
 

PureX

Veteran Member
It's an ironic thing, that addicts in recovery are probably much closer to the Truth, than those who imagine they are in control of their lives. The 1st step is about surrender, and that's something few without a state of despair come to the place to do. As they say, it usually takes some form of trauma to wake folks up out of the illusion of control.
Absolutely! In fact, that is what "the bottom" is for those who have succumbed to addiction: it is the realization that no matter what we do, or how badly we want it, or how hard we try, we simply cannot control our addiction. It is controlling us. And it will take away everything we love, and then kill us, by our own hand. Once that delusion that we will somehow manage to gain control over it is broken, we can finally look outside ourselves for help, and be willing to take it. Because we can see that we have no other option.

It is an excellent example of how religious faith works for people, and why so many people turn to it. It's also why atheists really don't understand it, and why they feel no need for it.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
This OP will probably make some believers angry at the OP starter, and that is totally fine :) But when there is a deeper realization of what God is and others who have not yet had the realization, read it, they will maybe try to defend their own understanding of God. That is also ok to do,

So to say out aloud God is a higher state of consciousness and God is within everything. What happens to your thoughts when reading this? (no it is not a challenge)

Is this topic even possible to discuss in a gentle manner?

Very few people believe that cartoon character Fred Flintstone is real.

However, when there is a "deeper realization of what Fred Flintstone is" and "others who have not yet had the realization, read it, they will maybe try to defend their own understanding of Fred Flintstone.

Fred Flintstone is a higher state of consciousness, and Fred Flintstone is within everything.

Anything that could be said of God can also be said of leprechauns, the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, et al.

Some say that it is blasphemy to compare God to a cartoon character. Or they might think that they are being mocked. But, this is not mocking. Rather, it is an exercise in logic. It shows that religion programs people to think in certain ways. Religion makes a mystique and awe about God, and fear that one must not question God or question anything written about God. Thus, people will start to believe that God exists, and no one will be brave enough to say that God doesn't exist.

We could develop other characteristics about God (such as saying that God is love, mercy, and peace). Yet, look at the Religious Right.

The Religious Right wants guns, wars, torture camps (thou shalt not kill.....turn the other cheek). The NRA is supposed to be for gun rights, but rejected war hero Senator John Kerry (who had a hunting trip during his campaign), merely because he is a Democrat. So, the NRA isn't really a gun advocacy group, they are merely a pawn of the Republicans, who use guns and religion to get their way.

The Religious Right accepts sex scandals (Jennifer Fitzgerald and George Herbert Walker Bush) but not sex scandals of Democrats (Bill Clinton and Monica).

The Religious Right wants to end abortion (which, in some people's minds, is merely the elimination of a few cells in the early term), yet they are fine with killing 18 year old men who fight their unprovoked wars. You'd think that they would be certain who the enemy is before fighting them--and they should have a plan for terminating wars. Eternal war for peace makes no sense at all. Killing a million Iraqis to fight a horrible monster dictator who killed a few of his own people also makes no sense.

Theists don't realize that they are being programmed--brainwashed into losing their logic. It is illogical to want to follow God but want guns and killing. It is illogical to want to follow God then destroy God's nature (environment) so that some oil company can get and worship mammon (thou shalt not worship mammon more than God--I paraphrased....but no one can question that the bible actually says this).

Some Christians are so programmed that they drink the poison Koolaid (Jonestown), or kill themselves to have their souls ride around the solar system on a passing comet (Reverend Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles, Heaven's Gate Cult). Sometimes I wonder if God is playing games with names and words....nettles are thorns.

Means spirited Christians go after Gays....yet only God is supposed to judge.

The Religious Right fought against condoms in schools (claiming that they encourage sex), yet, during an AIDS and STD crisis, you'd think that they would go to great lengths to stop it. Condoms stop many (but not all) unwanted pregnancies.

Are the Religious Right so convinced that God will prevent the spread of AIDS that they don't need condoms? Actually they have very little faith that God will protect them. The Vatican closed its borders during the COVID pandemic. However, there were some theists who thought that God would protect them, and they got and passed COVID. (Do unto others...). God tells us to look after other people, and not be focused on our own desires.

Jesus healed the sick...the Religious Right fought against Obamacare (universal health care to keep us all healthy). Sick poor people can spread sickness to healthy rich people. Preventive care keeps people working and productive.

When theists are so focused on their beliefs that God is everywhere and God is a higher state of consciousness, they somehow miss God's whole point....be kind...be loving....do unto others.

Alex Haley's Roots showed this. While Kunta Kinte was being bull whipped into accepting a new name (Toby), the master was inside reading the bible, and couldn't be disturbed (because he was too pious).

It isn't enough to gain an understanding of God and the bible.....one must practice God's laws and follow in the footsteps of Jesus.

When you apply the same logic to Fred Flintstone that you apply to God, you begin to understand that you are brainwashed. Though some are so brainwashed that they can't even see the flaws in their logic when they see it applied to a cartoon character.
 
Last edited:

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Absolutely! In fact, that is what "the bottom" is for those who have succumbed to addiction: it is the realization that no matter what we do, or how badly we want it, or how hard we try, we simply cannot control our addiction. It is controlling us. And it will take away everything we love, and then kill us, by our own hand. Once that delusion that we will somehow manage to gain control over it is broken, we can finally look outside ourselves for help, and be willing to take it. Because we can see that we have no other option.

It is an excellent example of how religious faith works for people, and why so many people turn to it. It's also why atheists really don't understand it, and why they feel no need for it.

Swapping one addiction for another. Addicted to meth....addicted to religion. Both consume minds.
 
Top