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Why I believe in Christ

U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Mitty said:
The word fornication is a synonym for prostitution, and is not a synonym for adultery as you claim.
A biblical marriage is simply an agreement between two people to shack up together and doesn't require a legally signed marriage contract or a wedding celebrant or witnesses.
And Jesus condemned ALL remarried divorcees to hell unless they remain celibate and repent their adulterous marriages (Mark 10:11-12 Matt 5:27-30). And it's your choice if you don't believe what the bible says................
Click to expand...

Fornication comes from the Greek word Porneia. This is even where we get the word pornography.
Because porneia ( fornication ) is more comprehensive that adultery is why Jesus gave fornication as scriptural grounds for divorce.
Fornication can include having sex with an animal as scriptural grounds for divorce.
Please see Matthew's parallel account found at Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9.

P.S. 'Biblical hell' is just mankind's temporary grave for the dead - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
 
Mitty

Mitty

Active Member
URAVIP2ME said:
Fornication comes from the Greek word Porneia. This is even where we get the word pornography.
Because porneia ( fornication ) is more comprehensive that adultery is why Jesus gave fornication as scriptural grounds for divorce.
Fornication can include having sex with an animal as scriptural grounds for divorce.
Please see Matthew's parallel account found at Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9.

P.S. 'Biblical hell' is just mankind's temporary grave for the dead - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Click to expand...
Wrong. The word fornication comes from the Latin word fornicari or brothel which are the arches where the prostitutes solicited their clients, and as defined in the Oxford English Dictionary.
Fornix - Wikipedia

In other words Jesus said that all remarried divorcees will go to hell unless the reason for divorce is prostitution and obviously not just for adultery in general.
 
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R

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Jesus taught his Father and Mother were Holy. They own the creative birth of all human babies.

If he did a biological DNA thesis on his ownership DNA baby life returned and healed due to cosmological gas cooling/wandering star theme, then he did.

So he would discuss his male self, personally as a variation to the sexual conception of a female ovary. For he was not discussing the female life in genetics, he was discussing his male Father human being self.

The DNA genetic story would then place his concept not in a female natural sexually conceived womb....for he was discussing human being and adult male DNA history....from his owned returned/reincarnated and healed baby DNA holy land life.

Why you all got it wrong.
 
OtherSheep

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Mitty said:
The word fornication is a synonym for prostitution, and is not a synonym for adultery as you claim.

And it's your choice if you don't believe what the bible says.
Click to expand...

As it's your choice not to believe what the Bible says in Greek.

Here it is in Greek and English.

πορνεία
πορνεία | billmounce.com
Most often, sexual immorality has been the translation.

What prostitution is... in the OT... was not even then accompanied by stoning.
The question remains.

Matthew 19:8-9
"Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts,
suffered you to put away your wives;
but from the beginning it was not so.
And I say unto you,
Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for sexual immorality,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery:
and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

Jesus says "put away his wife" (Matthew 19:8-9), not stone her to death.
Whose law is the stoning part, since Moses never wrote it?

If the hardhearted were allowed by Moses to put away their wives,
what happened after Moses was gone? Did they learn to be better people? Or worse?
The Prophets say they got worse and worse.
Is the stoning part written in the traditions that Jesus hated?
Who else had their hand in writing the Bible down?
No one.
 
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OtherSheep

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Aupmanyav said:
What Jesus said was for his time and not valid after 2000 years. The world now goes by different rules.
Click to expand...

God changes not. So, no matter how much the world changes, the law stays the same. The only time law changes is when man adds or subtracts. And the penalty for that is almost unimaginable.

What should be done to people who set God's word at naught? And worse, make the Bible the source of all wars... because the same God who loves the sparrow is pretended to command, Kill everything that breathes. Thus saith God, when God never said it... it ain't gonna be pretty.
 
OtherSheep

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Mitty said:
That's your issue if you've never read the bible. Or perhaps you could seek professional help with your problem.
Click to expand...

Whew... lets me off the hook, then.

If were to dog you around and asked you the same question... over and over again... which you'd already answered more than once... what would your reaction be? I am just about to the point of letting you show it, because you unfailingly fail to answer the simplest questions.

Instead, you pretend that money changed hands... at some point, apparently off screen... and call her a hooker and start checking the ground around you for the pointiest stones. ... All the while, complaining about Jesus for not beating you to the biggest and pointiest.

What part of thou shalt not kill don't you get?
 
OtherSheep

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
metis said:
If one is a Christian, this is not true. Here are the 613 Commandments found in Torah, including the verses whereas found: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

OTOH, Jesus narrowed it down to two, and they are...
Click to expand...

You seem to be laboring under that falacy that Judaism gave birth to Christianity. It did not.

The bits and pieces that Jesus quotes... those are what God said to Moses and the Prophets.

"But I say unto you..." (Matthew 5) sets forth the commandments from which not a jot or tittle will fall until all is completed... it's certainly not the 613. The only people who needed that sort of fence weren't being good to their neighbors in very specific ways. And a lot of those 613 are specifically harmful to their neighbors, families, and probably family pets.


In Matthew 19, Jesus says Moses had allowed what wasn't allowed in the beginning; so how much more and worse would Babylonian Talmudists allow? They are the guys who had control of the Bible and what got written in it. Jesus says their traditions wrecked the Bible.

So, unless you can find someone who has the pre-invasion-of-Canaan texts... in the original manuscripts... Christians don't have to think about those points-adding late-date people.

In fact, the oldest Old Testament (known of by me), is the one they wrote in Greek, at the libraries of Alexandria, where a whole lot of scriptures of many nations were kept. That alone ought to make you scratch your head. Coupled with the tablets from Babylon, Ugarit, etc., which match... sometimes very closely... what the Babylonian compilers came up with.
 
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Mitty

Mitty

Active Member
OtherSheep said:
As it's your choice not to believe what the Bible says in Greek.

Here it is in Greek and English.

πορνεία
πορνεία | billmounce.com
Most often, sexual immorality has been the translation.

What prostitution is... in the OT... was not even then accompanied by stoning.
The question remains.

Matthew 19:8-9
"Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts,
suffered you to put away your wives;
but from the beginning it was not so.
And I say unto you,
Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for sexual immorality,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery:
and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

Jesus says "put away his wife" (Matthew 19:8-9), not stone her to death.
Whose law is the stoning part, since Moses never wrote it?

If the hardhearted were allowed by Moses to put away their wives,
what happened after Moses was gone? Did they learn to be better people? Or worse?
The Prophets say they got worse and worse.
Is the stoning part written in the traditions that Jesus hated?
Who else had their hand in writing the Bible down?
No one.
Click to expand...
Doesn't change the fact that biblical law, including the ten commandments, is just man-made and changed as society changed.

And doesn't change the fact that the word "fornication" is a synonym for prostitution and is derived from the Latin word fornicari - brothel.

And doesn't change the fact that the bible says that Jesus didn't stone the adulteress since he wasn't without sin either (Mark 10:18).

And doesn't change the fact that Jesus condemned all remarried divorcees to hell (Matt 5:27-30 Luke 16:18 Mark 10:11-12).
Or are you just pointing out some of the numerous biblical contradictions and inconsistencies.
 
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B

Baseer

New Member
mmarco said:
The fundamental reason why I believe in Jesus Christ, is that I find that the christian concept of God and of divine love is the highest possible concept. I find that the idea itself that God loves us so much that He chose to assume the human nature and accepted to suffer crucifission in order to save us, expresses such a high concept of God and of divine love that it can comes only from God. I believe that Chirst suffered His Passion to help us to have faith in Him and trust Him, to make us understand that God loves us infinitely, that God is good and mercifull and that God is near to us so that we may open our heart to Him, be in communion with Him and be saved.
Click to expand...
Although this story may appeal to you, it is intellectually wrong on multiple levels. How could God, an all powerful almighty being be killed by his own creation. How could God an immortal being be killed by his own mortal creation. The idea is fundamentally false. Similarly the idea of Jesus being God also makes no sense. In the Bible, Jesus himself makes multiple statements which clearly point to the fact that he and God are not one and the same. For example Jesus says that "the father is greater than I." Now how could Jesus and God be one when Jesus clearly differentiates himself from God and says that God is greater than he.
 
Mitty

Mitty

Active Member
OtherSheep said:
What part of thou shalt not kill don't you get?
Click to expand...
So why does the bible command the killing of adulterers and disobedient children?

And why does the bible command the abortions of adulteresses (Numbers 5:20-28)?

Or are those laws just man-made since it wasn't morally wrong for Abraham to kill his son as a blood sacrifice? Nor was it morally wrong for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel, or for Noah's father to kill a young man (Gen 4).
 
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Mitty

Mitty

Active Member
Baseer said:
Although this story may appeal to you, it is intellectually wrong on multiple levels. How could God, an all powerful almighty being be killed by his own creation. How could God an immortal being be killed by his own mortal creation. The idea is fundamentally false. Similarly the idea of Jesus being God also makes no sense. In the Bible, Jesus himself makes multiple statements which clearly point to the fact that he and God are not one and the same. For example Jesus says that "the father is greater than I." Now how could Jesus and God be one when Jesus clearly differentiates himself from God and says that God is greater than he.
Click to expand...
And why did Jesus curse his god when he unsuccessfully appealed for help while being executed by the Romans for sedition and then had a last swig of wine (Matt 27:46-49)?
 
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Sundance

Sundance

pursuing the Divine Beloved
Premium Member
Valjean said:
Don't other religions claim the same thing? Doesn't literature from all over express similar sentiments? Heroes and altruists are a dime a dozen in literature. There's nothing unique about Christian mythology. God as a Strong-Father figure is a comforting idea and appeals to the inner child.Why do you believe this Christ narrative at all, other than your aforementioned admiration of Christian values?
Do you have any hard evidence, or is it all emotion?
Click to expand...


Hi, Valjean. Allow me, if you will, to answer these questions you have, though they were not addressed to me.

While in various religions, there are sects which preach about the love and compassion that x central figure has for the devotee, it is rarely taught that that love is manifested through a voluntary self-sacrifice.


I agree with you that heroes and altruism occur a dime a dozen in literature, and there are aspects of Christian teaching echoed in many world religions, this does not detract from Christianity’s appeal. Actually, I would counter that these strengthen its very wide appeal. There is nothing objectionable about Christian teaching from this viewpoint. I can only wonder, then, why the animosity towards Christianity because of these commonalities.


Assuming that by “hard evidence”, you mean an empirical basis for the legitimacy of the Christian faith, oh boy, this argument has one fatally inherent flaw:

As a religious system, the questions for which Christianity (like any other religion or philosophical system) poses answers do not establish themselves upon empirical foundations, but rather philosophical speculations. Consequently, any attempt at establishing credibility for or, conversely, discrediting Christianity or any other religion or philosophical system using empirical means is destined to lead to results that are either inconclusive or inaccurate.
 
mmarco

mmarco

Member
Baseer said:
Although this story may appeal to you, it is intellectually wrong on multiple levels. How could God, an all powerful almighty being be killed by his own creation. How could God an immortal being be killed by his own mortal creation. The idea is fundamentally false.
Click to expand...
God is omnipotent and He can assume the human nature, and as a human being, He can suffer and die.
God is out of time, and in "out-of-time" existence He is always alive.
In His out-of-time existence God is always one in three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; God can however also enter time and assume the human nature.
You must understand that our intelligence is finite, so we cannot fully understand God, because God is beyond our capacities of understanding.


Baseer said:
Similarly the idea of Jesus being God also makes no sense. In the Bible, Jesus himself makes multiple statements which clearly point to the fact that he and God are not one and the same. For example Jesus says that "the father is greater than I." Now how could Jesus and God be one when Jesus clearly differentiates himself from God and says that God is greater than he.
Click to expand...

The fact that Jesus is God is clearly written in the Bible. However, when the Son assumed the human nature, He renounced to His infinite knowledge and power, and therefore, as a human being, He was not as great as the Father.
 
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Mitty

Mitty

Active Member
mmarco said:
God is omnipotent and He can assume the human nature, and as a human being, He can suffer and die.
God is out of time, and in "out-of-time" existence He is always alive.
In His out-of-time existence God is always one in three persons, the Father, the Sson and the Holy Spirit; God can however also enter time and assume the human nature.
You must understand that our intelligence is finite, so we cannot fully understand God, because God is beyond our capacities of understanding.

The fact that Jesus is God is clearly written in the Bible. However, when the Son assumed the human nature, He renounced to His infinite knowledge and power, and therefore, as a human being, He was not as great as the Father.
Click to expand...
But where did Jesus say that he was a god, given that he unsuccessfully asked for help from his god when he was being executed for sedition by the Romans, which is hardly a god-like trait (Matt 27:46)?
 
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