ElishaElijah
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He’s coming to get His Bride, take her to the Wedding
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God is disproven by science? Really?
- Thread starter MrIntelligentDesign
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
In those verses, Jesus did not say that HE was going to return to earth.
Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?
That is what you do. When you don't like what the Bible says you white it out or twist it to fit your views.
How do you explain the following verses?
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
ElishaElijah
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”And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.“
Zechariah 14:16-21 NKJV
The thousand years when Jesus come to dwell on the earth in Jerusalem. When Jesus comes from Heaven to the earth for His Bride before that, you must mean something else by the way you’re talking.
”Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.“
Revelation 20:1-10 NKJV
That "definition" (description) does not reflect general usage, and certainly our usage in this epistemic discussion. It fails the substitution test used by linguists. It cannot be substituted for "faith" in normal, colloquial or technical usage, without confusing the meaning of the sentence.
Substituting "unfounded belief" or "unevidenced belief," on the other hand, leaves the meaning clear. In technical usage it can even make it clearer, removing any ambiguity in the word "faith."
ElishaElijah
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When I say coming to the earth but not to stay but in the clouds:
”For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.“
I Thessalonians 4:16-18 NKJV
But there will be a time after that he will come and stand on Mt Olives and it will split in two:
”Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord— Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light. And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward the eastern sea And half of them toward the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur. And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The Lord is one,” And His name one.“
Zechariah 14:1-9 NKJV
And what tested, peer reviewed textbook are these quotes from?
Audie
Veteran Member
Try "Egypt"
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Bible, dontcha know?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus is not a King. Jesus never claimed to be a King. Christians made Jesus into a King by misinterpreting scriptures.
John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Jesus is not the Lord of hosts. Baha'u'llah was the Lord of Hosts.
“The fear of God is the shield that defendeth His Cause, the buckler that enableth His people to attain to victory. It is a standard that no man can abase, a force that no power can rival. By its aid, and by the leave of Him Who is the Lord of Hosts, they that have drawn nigh unto God have been able to subdue and conquer the citadels of the hearts of men.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 272
In the Baháʼí Faith, the "Messianic Age" refers to a 1000-year period beginning with the Declaration of Baháʼu'lláh in 1863. Baháʼís believe the period of peace and prosperity is gradually unfolding and will culminate in the appearance of "The Most Great Peace".
Messianic Age - Wikipedia
Jesus is not coming to dwell on earth because Jesus finished His work on earth and there is nothing more for Jesus to do here.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
The God-given mission of Jesus was to reveal His teachings and die on the cross for the sins of humanity. As soon as Jesus died on the cross His mission on earth was finished. There was nothing more for Jesus to do, and Jesus did not do anything on earth after that, nor did Jesus ever promise to come back to earth and do any more work or anything else.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
The Christian dispensation is over. It ended when God sent Baha'u'llah to usher in a whole new dispensation.
- the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
- an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
- a divinely appointed order or age:
Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com
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ElishaElijah
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You got some messed up theology:
”The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.“
Revelation 1:1-3 NKJV
”Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.“
Revelation 19:11-16 NKJV
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
ElishaElijah
Return
Jesus Christ is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and the only One Worthy to take the scroll and open the Seals. No other like Him.
As for the timeline of Prophesy and End Times, God showed this in Daniel, where do you think we are? For sure not at the end otherwise the one world government of the feet of the statue wouldve been destroyed and it hasn’t even been set up yet.
”“This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”“
Daniel 2:36-45 NKJV
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We know that Baha'u'llah was the King of Kings and Lord of Lords because He has already fulfilled the OT and NT prophecies for the coming of the Messiah promised in the OT and the return of Christ promised in the NT, as explained in the following books:
William Sears, Thief in the Night
1844: Convergence in Prophecy for Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the Baha'i Faith
The Coming of the Glory: How the Hebrew Scriptures Reveal the Plan of God
No, we are not at the end, because the world government envisioned by Baha'u'llah has not been built yet. although it is in the process of being built.
Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace and the Lord of hosts. World peace will be established during His religious dispensation. Please note that the prophecy does not say 'when' peace will be established, but where it says there shall be no end to the peace that indicates that it won't happen all at once but rather it will unfold gradually. That is exactly what is happening right now. The same is true for the government. It says that there shall be 'no end' to the government which means it will begin and be established gradually and continue to develop over time. The government will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).
Baha’u’llah set up a 'system of government' and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. What we now refer to as Local Spiritual assemblies (LSAs) and will eventually evolve into what will be called Houses of Justice.
ElishaElijah
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I would say you don’t know because he was not, but is dead and buried like the other false messengers claiming to be the Christ, but the end is here:
”“Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.“
Revelation 22:7-21 NKJV
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That's not happening. If a real Jesus once lived, he's been dead for two millennia now.
Biblical prophecies are so vague that whatever happens is called their fulfillment.
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ElishaElijah
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Well, Jesus body was never found, empty grave.
Bible prophecies so vague they showed in Daniel and gave the interpretation so all those Kingdoms have come and gone like recorded.
Where we are now is 10 kingdoms coming together that are partly strong and partly weak. I can see that happening now, when it does and a man comes out of that to bring peace, build the temple in Jerusalem, 3 of the 10 leave, then he sets Himself up as God, if people don’t receive his mark they can’t buy or sell food. All these things are happening now, can’t you see? Hope you actually read Daniel.
We don't know that a historical Jesus actually existed, but let's stipulate that one did. If somebody looked somewhere and didn't find his dead body, assuming that he hadn't been cremated, they didn't look in the right place
The prophecies in Daniel describe nothing specifically. There is no event that can be said to be the fulfillment of those prophecies, or more properly, in the hands of a believer and motivated Bible reader, there is no event that can't be called a fulfillment of those prophecies. Let's ;look at one, from Daniel 9:
"Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city: to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand: from the time that the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of an anointed prince, there shall be seven weeks; and for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with streets and moat, but in a troubled time. After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing, and the troops of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. He shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall make sacrifice and offering cease; and in their place shall be an abomination that desolates, until the decreed end is poured out upon the desolator."
Hey! Streets and moat? That just happened! They just put in some new sewer lines exactly as Daniel prophesied: Work continues on Jocotepec malecon sewer system Improvement of drainage system sought - Lakeside News
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Jesus was resurrected, that is true, and insofar as I know and read, was taken to heaven.
ElishaElijah
Return
Well, you’re part of the 1% now concerning Jesus.
How Daniel’s Prophecy of 70 Weeks Connects to the End Times - Topical Studies
The 70 weeks in Daniel are one of the most important prophecies to study in the Old Testament. One reason is because it ties together so many other prophetic words we find in Scripture and helps us to see how God brings about what he declares in his word....
There are also more prophesies in Daniel with the interpretations ex. chapter 2 and all those are specific and are expounded upon in the other chapters. Read the whole book for yourself.
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