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Poll: Which Came First?

Which Came First: God or existence?

  • Total voters
    31
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Trailblazer said:
I selected God and existence started to exist at the same time, since I believe that both God and His Creation have always existed, from eternity.
Of course that doesn't mean that earth has always existed, but God's Creation is comprised of more than earth.

“As to thy question concerning the origin of creation. Know assuredly that God’s creation hath existed from eternity, and will continue to exist forever. Its beginning hath had no beginning, and its end knoweth no end. His name, the Creator, presupposeth a creation, even as His title, the Lord of Men, must involve the existence of a servant.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 150
Click to expand...
I believe that would make the God of the Bible a liar because He sated that He created everything.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
paarsurrey said:
Didn't G-d (not Christians-God Jesus) always existed, and is therefore the First and the Last , every thing else got sxistence as bestowed by Him, please? Right?

Regards
Click to expand...
There is not a separate Christian God there is only one God and you should know that of all people.

That is what both the Father and Jesus say about themselves in the Book of Revelation.
 
Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Exaltist Ethan said:
This topic probably comes up often on these forums, but I'm including a poll with multiple options and also putting this in debates, so there's that. The question on my mind is: Which came first, God or existence? By existence I don't mean the Universe. Doing some extrapolating, I would argue that existence first started to exist when The Omniverse existed. When did The Omniverse first start to exist? I would argue that it forever exists, always a part of the past, always a part of the future, and that the Universe we're in is a tiny fraction of its existence.

I intend on voting that God and existence came into being at the same time, as I see God as change and that God is what nature is becoming, every single day nature is becoming more like God, deep from its beginnings until now, and deep into the future even long after I'm dead. But I'm curious as what people think about this topic. Which came first to you? How and why? Let's have a deep discussion and dialogue about the very beginning, how it got here, and where do we go from here. Let us know what you voted and more importantly, why you voted that way. Votes will be public like usual, and you will only be able to vote for one option on this poll, to avoid contradictions.

Which came first: God or existence? Explain to us what you think and why you think that way here.
Click to expand...

This is an oddly phrased question to me. Existence didn't "start existing." Existence just is. In classical theistic terms, we could say this about God as well. God is Being itself, which has never been anything else.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Didn't G-d (not Christians-God Jesus) always existed, and is therefore the First and the Last , every thing else got sxistence as bestowed by Him, please? Right?

Muffled said:
There is not a separate Christian God there is only one God and you should know that of all people.

That is what both the Father and Jesus say about themselves in the Book of Revelation.
Click to expand...
Book of Revelation is not from Jesus/Yeshua the Israelite Messiah, please, right?
If yes, then kindly quote from Jesus that he wrote it, please, right?

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
" Which Came First? "
paarsurrey said:
Didn't G-d (not Christians-God Jesus) always existed, and is therefore the First and the Last , every thing else got sxistence as bestowed by Him, please? Right?

Muffled said:
There is not a separate Christian God there is only one God and you should know that of all people.

That is what both the Father and Jesus say about themselves in the Book of Revelation.
Click to expand...
paarsurrey responded :Book of Revelation is not from Jesus/Yeshua the Israelite Messiah, please, right?
If yes, then kindly quote from Jesus that he wrote it, please, right?
paarsurrey says now:
Does everybody here now consents that Jesus was never the the First and the Last as he never claimed it himself in the first person in an unambiguous, unequivocal and straightforward manner, right??
And nobody could quote from Jesus in this connection, please, right?

Regards
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
paarsurrey said:
paarsurrey said:
Didn't G-d (not Christians-God Jesus) always existed, and is therefore the First and the Last , every thing else got sxistence as bestowed by Him, please? Right?


Book of Revelation is not from Jesus/Yeshua the Israelite Messiah, please, right?
If yes, then kindly quote from Jesus that he wrote it, please, right?

Regards
Click to expand...
I believe John the Apostle wrote the words of Jesus.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Muffled said:
I believe the word creation is defined as a beginning.
Click to expand...
I believe that is a misunderstanding of scriptures.

“As to thy question concerning the origin of creation. Know assuredly that God’s creation hath existed from eternity, and will continue to exist forever. Its beginning hath had no beginning, and its end knoweth no end. His name, the Creator, presupposeth a creation, even as His title, the Lord of Men, must involve the existence of a servant.

As to those sayings, attributed to the Prophets of old, such as, “In the beginning was God; there was no creature to know Him,” and “The Lord was alone; with no one to adore Him,” the meaning of these and similar sayings is clear and evident, and should at no time be misapprehended. To this same truth bear witness these words which He hath revealed: “God was alone; there was none else besides Him. He will always remain what He hath ever been.” Every discerning eye will readily perceive that the Lord is now manifest, yet there is none to recognize His glory. By this is meant that the habitation wherein the Divine Being dwelleth is far above the reach and ken of any one besides Him. Whatsoever in the contingent world can either be expressed or apprehended, can never transgress the limits which, by its inherent nature, have been imposed upon it. God, alone, transcendeth such limitations. He, verily, is from everlasting. No peer or partner has been, or can ever be, joined with Him. No name can be compared with His Name. No pen can portray His nature, neither can any tongue depict His glory. He will, for ever, remain immeasurably exalted above any one except Himself.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 150-151
 
S

SDavis

Member
Exaltist Ethan said:
This topic probably comes up often on these forums, but I'm including a poll with multiple options and also putting this in debates, so there's that. The question on my mind is: Which came first, God or existence? By existence I don't mean the Universe. Doing some extrapolating, I would argue that existence first started to exist when The Omniverse existed. When did The Omniverse first start to exist? I would argue that it forever exists, always a part of the past, always a part of the future, and that the Universe we're in is a tiny fraction of its existence.

I intend on voting that God and existence came into being at the same time, as I see God as change and that God is what nature is becoming, every single day nature is becoming more like God, deep from its beginnings until now, and deep into the future even long after I'm dead. But I'm curious as what people think about this topic. Which came first to you? How and why? Let's have a deep discussion and dialogue about the very beginning, how it got here, and where do we go from here. Let us know what you voted and more importantly, why you voted that way. Votes will be public like usual, and you will only be able to vote for one option on this poll, to avoid contradictions.

Which came first: God or existence? Explain to us what you think and why you think thiat way here.
Click to expand...
I couldn't vote - I don't agree with any of them.
Is the Omniverse suppose to be four dimensional / parallel universes? Since it is the largest of the multiverses. Or is God supposedly an inhabitor of the Omniverse?
 
ratiocinator

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Exaltist Ethan said:
Which came first: God or existence? Explain to us what you think and why you think that way here.
Click to expand...
The question is incoherent. 'Which came first' needs time in order to make sense. Time is an feature of the universe, so you not only need existance but a physical universe to exist in order for 'which came first' to make any sense. Hence asking the question about existence makes no sense at all. Sorry.
 
Exaltist Ethan

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
ratiocinator said:
The question is incoherent. 'Which came first' needs time in order to make sense. Time is an feature of the universe, so you not only need existance but a physical universe to exist in order for 'which came first' to make any sense. Hence asking the question about existence makes no sense at all. Sorry.
Click to expand...
You know what. I'm going to say it right now. I screwed up. I didn't know how to frame the question so that everybody would understand what I was saying. I didn't know what to use for the word existence so I just used the word existence. The question was really asking whether you believed the physical Universe existed first or if God existed first. Or was it? What if time exists in different Universes? What if there are different natures of unique Universes, that have more than one time dimension, or more spatial dimensions than the one in this Universe? What really is existence? What really is reality? I really didn't know how to ask a question as vague as this without having some issues framing the question itself. And so, I leave it to the readers themselves to interpret what the question means and how it relates to their understanding of both God and existence. As someone who is increasingly understanding God as reality, another word for existence, I answered that they came at the same time. But if both are eternal, there is no time where it even 'started', making this whole question itself null in point. So yes, I am completely aware of how convoluted and confusing a question like this is, and if you don't want to answer it, or feel like it's redundant in any way, please don't answer the poll and instead complain to me about how ridiculous a question like this is to begin with. As someone who already understands a rudimentary form of both physics and theology, I already know it is.
 
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