Lets solve the school shooting problem

[mikkel_the_dane]

What do you mean by that?

BTW, the UK has 1/7th the homicide rate that we have in the States.

"Has it right" is a value distinction and not a fact.

 

[Altfish]

Well, no, not in my subjective opinion and not as a fact.

But it is an opinion that is easily reached by looking at the facts.

 

[Mock Turtle]

this is not a good reason to not protect kids in the short term. Also, I am not talking about a fortress. There are schools that have armed security guards in the school today. They are not prisons. Using hyperbole is not an argument. What other solution is there to stop an attack next fall?

this may be true but what I care about now is protecting the kids next school year. We can talk about this after we protect our kids.

Well, I'll repeat what was quoted from another thread:

Research has shown that boosting security at schools with armed security, metal detectors, and reducing access to buildings has little to no effect on the likelihood of a school shooting when compared to more preventative and early intervention measures. Though security companies have lunged at the opportunity to outfit schools, educators worry the effort and money diverted to additional security measures would take away from proven methods of preventing mass shootings, including mental health counseling.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But it is an opinion that is easily reached by looking at the facts.

this is not a good reason to not protect kids in the short term. Also, I am not talking about a fortress. There are schools that have armed security guards in the school today. They are not prisons. Using hyperbole is not an argument. What other solution is there to stop an attack next fall?

this may be true but what I care about now is protecting the kids next school year. We can talk about this after we protect our kids.

It didn't work in Texas. We need more hardened schools and more police. We need it everywhere, because if we only plug one hole, they will find another. We need to harden the country.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But it is an opinion that is easily reached by looking at the facts.

Yeah. But that is not all.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No, in practice you need a comprise. Some sort of your position and some sort of their position. As long as the sides both play my road or the high road, you all won't get anywhere.

What is the compromise to protect the children next school year? I see no other way to do it. What is your proposal?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

This doesn't work. The recent school shooting proved this.
The resource officer confronted the shooter before entering a classroom, the officer did nothing.
Police sat outside the school while the shooter was murdering children for an hour.

This has been states as being false.

The Parkland school massacre was another example of a do-nothing resource officer.

I am not talking about a resource officer but a trained police officer. This argument makes no sense to me. Your view is you would rater have a shooter have no resistance at the school and then wait for a police officer to show up minutes later that may or may not do anything. Most police officers will act, you see this every day. I would rather have someone at the school that is trained and willing to engage these shooters to protect the kids over having to wait minutes while a shooter shoots our kids.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What is the compromise to protect the children next school year? I see no other way to do it. What is your proposal?

Okay, listen, make the law. But make sure that you pick the right people to do it.

Here is your problem. There is no ideal situation for which the shooter acts according to plan.
So you and I, because we have to be in a pair, are now caught in a sub-par situation and now we charge. We run towards the sound of gunfire, well knowing that we are in pair because one of us has to draw fire and hope the other one gets the shooter.
We are warriors and the way of the warrior is death. Can you do that? I doubt I can do it anymore and I was trained to do it in general as a soldier. You are not defending your own life. You are giving your life to defend other life.

This is not a Hollywood movie. It is real life and your plan rests on that you can actually find people, who can do that?!!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This has been states as being false.

I am not talking about a resource officer but a trained police officer. This argument makes no sense to me. Your view is you would rater have a shooter have no resistance at the school and then wait for a police officer to show up minutes later that may or may not do anything. Most police officers will act, you see this every day. I would rather have someone at the school that is trained and willing to engage these shooters to protect the kids over having to wait minutes while a shooter shoots our kids.

It took the police one hour to act in the recent shooting.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Yes, but for that to work you need officers, who can do this. Forget his political bend and focus on the actual point.

If you don't get it, we can go through it as per standard military tactics, because that is what it boils down to.

This is why I say trained officers.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This is why I say trained officers.

Yes, now answer my other post about that.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

There was an armed security guard at that school but he didn't confront the shooter. It probably was because a pistol is not likely to win over a person with an AR-!% and wearing body armor.

This report has been confirmed to be false.

Well, don't tell the FBI as we have here in the States 120 guns per 100 people, and that's insane.

This is my point. Enact any law you want today and it will not stop a shooter next school year.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This report has been confirmed to be false.
This is my point. Enact any law you want today and it will not stop a shooter next school year.

That one is maybe still up in the air. There are conflicting reports of that.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Well, I'll repeat what was quoted from another thread:

Research has shown that boosting security at schools with armed security, metal detectors, and reducing access to buildings has little to no effect on the likelihood of a school shooting when compared to more preventative and early intervention measures. Though security companies have lunged at the opportunity to outfit schools, educators worry the effort and money diverted to additional security measures would take away from proven methods of preventing mass shootings, including mental health counseling.

I agree we need other methods to stop these shooting in the future. I am not saying that armed guards are the long term solution or that it will prevent any attempts. It will better protect our kids at school in the short term. But what are we going to do this coming school year?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It didn't work in Texas. We need more hardened schools and more police. We need it everywhere, because if we only plug one hole, they will find another. We need to harden the country.

What does this mean practically?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What does this mean practically?

Okay, just answer my other post about your proposal and we will consolidate there.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Okay, listen, make the law. But make sure that you pick the right people to do it.

Here is your problem. There is no ideal situation for which the shooter acts according to plan.
So you and I, because we have to be in a pair, are now caught in a sub-par situation and now we charge. We run towards the sound of gunfire, well knowing that we are in pair because one of us has to draw fire and hope the other one gets the shooter.
We are warriors and the way of the warrior is death. Can you do that? I doubt I can do it anymore and I was trained to do it in general as a soldier. You are not defending your own life. You are giving your life to defend other life.

This is not a Hollywood movie. It is real life and your plan rests on that you can actually find people, who can do that?!!

I agree it is hard. You can find lots of stories where people sacrifice put themselves in harms way.. If we don't try to find people willing to do it then what? We just let shooters kill our children?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It took the police one hour to act in the recent shooting.

This is why we need trained guards at the schools, at least two. To engage before they get in. If a school is properly secured the shooter will have to engage a police officer prior to getting in. Why is this ok for airports but not our schools?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

That one is maybe still up in the air. There are conflicting reports of that.

Even if they did engage him. How does that mean we should let them walk in freely to shoot our children? Why do you resist armed police at schools but not at the airport or the Grammy's?

 

[metis]

This report has been confirmed to be false.

Yes, I caught this last night, but thanks for the heads-up anyway.

This is my point. Enact any law you want today and it will not stop a shooter next school year.

So, all you are saying is that we just have to live with mass shootings and do nothing. Sorry, but the research says otherwise.