Still love your guns, America? Fourteen elementary kids and teacher killed in Texas

[We Never Know]

That's not what you seemed to be saying before. And as I pointed out, a common symptom of ADHD is aggressive behaviour. That's before being "drugged."

So, you're saying that kids are being overdrugged and the result of that is ..... ?

How are you relating it to mass shootings?

I didn't bring up ADHD. Someone else did.

Again I said we are shoving too many pills down the throats of our children.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

some people think prayer is productive.

Yes, I know. I'm not one of them. And I'm not alone. The phrase is becoming a source of mockery:

Pubs are more serious about gun rights than are Dems. As I said....there's serious opposition between the 2 sides.

Gun rights are the problem, as are gun deaths. What's the evidence that the Republicans don't support the idea of the nation being armed and violent?

That case wasn't a "mass shooting". And he doesn't fit into your list of angry pro-Trumpers, etc. He put himself into a scenario resulting in self defense, one that he should've avoided.

It was a vigilante shooting. I think he fits the profile very well, his mother, too. He's iconically American. The right loves him. How is none of that relevant to the problem of gun violence in America in your mind? This is American culture today. No mystery about the increases in gun deaths there:

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Where do you get your data, and why do you consider it relevant even if correct?

Can't believe I have to explain this: why are 18 year old boys shooting thier peers? Lack of fathers.
Mass shooters-absent fathers link ignored by anti-gun activists

Peter Langman, an expert on the psychology of school shooters, compiled data that showed the vast majority came from households characterized by divorce and separation, abuse and neglect, alcoholism and drug addiction.

“Out of this sample of 56 school shooters, only 10 (18%) grew up in a stable home with both biological parents,” Mr. Langman wrote in a 2016 article. “In other words, 82% of the sample either grew up in dysfunctional families or without their parents together (for at least part of their lives).”

Sorry, but I don't see a rebuttal to my claim that we should expect a rise in gun violence in the culture as I described it: "You've got an angry people armed to the teeth who see violence as patriotic and taking back America from thieving Democrats who stole their election, in dead end jobs with no future and no savings who feel cheated out of their slice of the American pie by immigrants that Democrats are bussing in to vote Democratic, in a culture that lionizes the likes of Rittenhouse, and a culture that tells them implicitly that violence is acceptable by doing nothing about it as politicians like Trump, Greene and Boebert, and talking heads like Carlson normalize violence. What other outcome is possible?"

Your response was to point out that many of the younger shooters come from broken homes? Was that intended to mean that the factors I named aren't relevant? If so, it failed to do that. If not, why mention it?

A rebuttal is an argument that makes a prior claim or argument incorrect if the rebuttal is sound. It's simply impossible for two sound argument to contradict one another. If two arguments are mutually exclusive, at least one is wrong.

Rittenhouse isn't a mass shooter, he was defending himself against predators.

Rittenhouse is iconic of gun violence culture in America. He's just another radicalized young person with romantic vision of saving Kenosha from Black Lives Matter and a gun solution. How is he different than the January 6th insurrectionists, also radicalized, who also thought that they were on a righteous mission, and were willing to wreak violence in defense of a fantasy?

Apparently wanting to protect people now makes you evil?

Evil is your word. I call Rittenhouse a killer with a gun.

Are you familiar with Dylan's License To Kill? It's a nice description of this phenomenon of grooming killers like Rittenhouse. If you've never heard it, you might like to take a listen. It's chillingly prophetic:

Now, they take him, and they teach him, and they groom him for life
And they set him, on a path where he's bound to get ill
Then they bury him with stars
Sell his body like they do used cars

Now, there's a woman on my block
She just sit there facin' the hill
She say who gonna take away his license to kill?

Now he's hell-bent for destruction, he's afraid and confused
And his brain has been mismanaged with great skill
And all he believes are his eyes
And his eyes, they just tell him lies​

 

[F1fan]

Of course I care. I just don't believe killing them before they are born is a solution...or more restrictions on guns for law abiding people.

Perhaps we get the saved fetuses born, then put them in a school with a legal gun owner who goes on a shooting rampage. That way the babies that would be aborted aren't, but they are eliminated by legal gun owners because we can't prevent people from their right to guns. Everyone wins.

Of course I'm not being serious. But your contradictory views are not serious either, even though you think you are. You have a gun fetish that causes and allows civilian deaths. You won't compromise, so you accept the deaths as moral collateral. You then oppose abortion as immoral, even as children are murdered by legal gun owners. You offer no means to pay for more children and many that would be born into financially strapped families, more security from more guns, no funding for mental health access, no means to help families that are fractured and struggle in a socioeconomic system that is very competitive and prejudicial, etc. You want a perfect outcome without any commitment to what could get us closer to that scenario. That is why we can't take you seriously.

I'm glad they shot this one and we don't have to pay for his lifelong incarceration. Too bad it didn't happen sooner.

Glad they shot this one? But I'm sure you're glad he wasn't aborted, because you are moral.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I didn't bring up ADHD. Someone else did.

Again I said we are shoving too many pills down the throats of our children.

And that's related to mass shootings, how?

Please, just say what it is you're trying to say.

 

[We Never Know]

That's not what you seemed to be saying before. And as I pointed out, a common symptom of ADHD is aggressive behaviour. That's before being "drugged."

So, you're saying that kids are being overdrugged and the result of that is ..... ?

How are you relating it to mass shootings?

"So, you're saying that kids are being overdrugged and the result of that is ....."

Again....I'm saying we shove too many pills down the throats of our children.
You can take that anyway you want to.

"How are you relating it to mass shootings?"

Its politically incorrect to relate the two. All that would do is put a target on people taking the meds.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I want children given the same protection politicians get.

I assume you aren't talking about health insurance. That would be too reasonable.

 

[We Never Know]

We protect everyone but our children with guns. From the president to stores, we have armed security. Guns save far more lives in this country than you will ever know. It's time to protect our children with guns also.
BTW, I saw this today and I think it's correct: We and experiencing the results of millions of aborted children. God has removed his protection because of the blood on America's hands, and now the children we want to keep are dying too. The real gun is the individual doing the killing and Satan is pulling his trigger.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Priorities. How many of these should have priority...

"The US leads the way in...
-divorce
-drug addiction
-debt
-obesity
-rapes
-car thefts
-people on pharmaceutical drugs
-murders
-incarceration
-percentage of women taking antidepressants
-creating pornography
-etc.

-and total crimes period.

NUMBER ONE? 20 Shameful Categories In Which America Leads The World

Well, you can begin by taking a few of them off the high-priority list, because when everything's a priority, nothing is. So,

-divorce -- if people want to divorce, then let them. It isn't necessarily "better for the kids" to have mom and dad hating each other day in and day out.
-creating pornography -- if there are people who want to earn money making porn, and other people who want to spend money to see it, why should you care? Do you care if actors want to make violent films with lots of killing, and others want to watch them? Why is sex worse than killing?
-drug addiction -- don't see why that's worse than martinis
-people on pharmaceutical drugs -- don't see why that's worse than martinis
-percentage of women taking antidepressants -- don't see why that's worse than martinis
-car thefts -- not good, but property can be replaced, lives can't
-obesity -- shouldn't cost billions to fix, as this is mostly a health education matter -- some good ads, and better informed medical profession armed with good educational materials ought to help a lot

See? Not so hard to prioritize, if you care about what's really important, not just your own peculiar moral bug-bears.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Why is this like pulling teeth?

"So, you're saying that kids are being overdrugged and the result of that is ....."

Again....I'm saying we shove too many pills down the throats of our children.

You've said that several times.
Why did you bring it up in this thread about a mass shooter?

You can take that anyway you want to.

I took it a certain way, and you said that's not what you're saying.
Hence my repeated questions for you to articulate what your point is.

"How are you relating it to mass shootings?"

Its politically incorrect to relate the two. All that would do is put a target on people taking the meds.

You seem to be attempting to relate the two, so just go ahead and make your point already.

 

[SkepticThinker]

View attachment 63233

Nonsense. We've already had a discussion in this thread about how armed guards weren't able to thwart off the Texas shooter and instead were shot by him, on his way into the school.

I don't understand what people want here? To turn schools into prisons? How is that a good thing for anyone? And all of this to avoid the very obvious fact that the mass proliferation of ,and fetishization of guns is probably a major part of the problem.

 

[We Never Know]

Why is this like pulling teeth?

You've said that several times.
Why did you bring it up in this thread about a mass shooter?


I took it a certain way, and you said that's not what you're saying.
Hence my repeated questions for you to articulate what your point is.


You seem to be attempting to relate the two, so just go ahead and make your point already.

I asked you a question here(plus others). You ignored it(them). Instead of playing 50 questions, why don't you also answer some?

Um...did you read my post?

""American children are about three times more likely to be prescribed psychotropic medication as are children in Western Europe, according to a new study published in Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Mental Health. Psychotropic drugs are drugs that affect the mind or mood."

This seems to be the normal. Why is it normal?

 

[We Never Know]

Nonsense. We've already had a discussion in this thread about how armed guards weren't able to thwart off the Texas shooter and instead were shot by him, on his way into the school.

I don't understand what people want here? To turn schools into prisons? How is that a good thing for anyone? And all of this to avoid the very obvious fact that the mass proliferation of ,and fetishization of guns is probably a major part of the problem.

Did I say armed guards? Nope! And thats one of your problems. You jump to conclusions.

Arm and train the teachers who want to participate. There are many teachers in schools that would provided better coverage of the school than one armed resource officer.

 

[We Never Know]

Nonsense. We've already had a discussion in this thread about how armed guards weren't able to thwart off the Texas shooter and instead were shot by him, on his way into the school.

I don't understand what people want here? To turn schools into prisons? How is that a good thing for anyone? And all of this to avoid the very obvious fact that the mass proliferation of ,and fetishization of guns is probably a major part of the problem.

A gun in the wrong hands gets people killed.
A gun in the right hands save lives. Do you agree?

If 400 people used guns wrongly, why take them away from the other 130 million people that don't?

 

[Revoltingest]

Gun rights are the problem, as are gun deaths.

I see a better balance of rights & legally required responsibilities.

 

[Revoltingest]

It was a vigilante shooting. I think he fits the profile very well, his mother, too. He's iconically American. The right loves him. How is none of that relevant to the problem of gun violence in America in your mind? This is American culture today. No mystery about the increases in gun deaths there:

View attachment 63232

Many gun owners I know think Rittenhouse was
reckless. One shouldn't seek out the need to
defend oneself.
Pictures are funny, but they only paint the picture
of those portrayed. Your claim just doesn't reflect
the reality of the mindset of the typical mass shooter,
especially in schools.

 

[We Never Know]

Many gun owners I know think Rittenhouse was
reckless. One shouldn't seek out the need to
defend oneself.
Pictures are funny, but they only paint the picture
of those portrayed. Your claim just doesn't reflect
the reality of the mindset of the typical mass shooter,
especially in schools.

As tge old saying goes...."if you go looking for trouble, you'll find it”

 

[Revoltingest]

As tge old saying goes...."if you go looking for trouble, you'll find it”

I know some people who are continually involved
in some conflict. I try to enlighten them that they
create the circumstances leading to that. But it's
always someone else's fault.
Such people shouldn't own guns or be allowed to
hire lawyers.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Did I say armed guards? Nope! And thats one of your problems. You jump to conclusions.

Arm and train the teachers who want to participate. There are many teachers in schools that would provided better coverage of the school than one armed resource officer.

You posted a graphic that was trying to say that we don't protect children in schools. Don't you think armed guards count toward that? Or no?

I have to jump to conclusions because you, for some reason, refuse to articulate your points, despite my asking several times.

 

[F1fan]

View attachment 63233

Perfect solution, because so far no presidents have ever been shot or assassinated.

And the security and police in Buffalo and in Uvalde successfully defended their grocery and school against kids legally armed with AR15s.