Still love your guns, America? Fourteen elementary kids and teacher killed in Texas

[SkepticThinker]

So its not a bad idea but probably won't work on all kids? No harm an trying.

Sadly this is reality for many/some kids...

Child- mommy, daddy lets play a game of candyland!
Parents- can't you see we are watching our favorite show. Go play in your room.
Child- drops head and walks off to play by theirself

Next day

Child- mommy, daddy lets play a game of Uno!
Parents- can't you see we are relaxing. Go play in your room.
Child- drops head and walks off to play by theirself

Next day

Child- mommy, daddy lets play catch!
Parents- can't you see your father is tired and I'm on the phone. Go play in your room
Child- drops head and walks off to play by theirself

Next day

Child- mommy, daddy lets play a game of shutes and ladders!
Parents- see what we got you. Your own video game. Go to your room and play.
Child- oh cool and walks off to play by theirself

Next day

Child- mommy, daddy play the video game with me!
Parents- whisper to teach other ("they have too much energy. We need to take them to the Dr to get some medication so they won't bother us all the time"). Maybe we will play tomorrow after your Dr visit. For now go to your room and play.
Child- drops head and walks off to play by theirself

This is not how mental health professionals diagnose anything.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So you want some sort of Mad Max Green Zone?

I want children given the same protection politicians get.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I want children given the same protection politicians get.

Who is going to pay for that and do you have enough people with that kind of mindset to do that job?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Do you have any idea how absurd and idiotic it is to complain about millions of abortions and then fail to admit the prevalence of millions of guns in the USA is what is making so many murders possible?

Do you know how absurd and idiotic you sound for defending murdering kids by saying a small portion of them might get murdered?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Who is going to pay for that and do you have enough people with that kind of mindset to do that job?

Of course... There's plenty of ex-military members that would jump at the chance, and if we can send billions to the Ukraine we can protect our own children.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I want children given the same protection politicians get.

There were armed cops outside the school in Texas the other day. They all got shot and the shooter was able to enter the school anyway.
So armed guards at schools isn't working either. Should we just lock students up in prison-like settings, or maybe, possibly, try to deal with the reasons of how and why people are carrying out these shootings, and how they're getting their guns? This is getting absurd. Is this really how you want to live?

Freedom!!! Right?

 

[F1fan]

This misses what's really going on. It's not a lack
of seriousness...it's serious orientation to conflicting
positions. Essentially, 2 sides aren't cooperating to
find a workable compromise.

There are dozens of bills that passed the House but are stalled in the Senate. The primary reason is the lack of support from Republicans. Shumer can call for votes but if they won't pass there is no point in doing this.

There are bipartisan bills but the number of Republicans is fairly small compared to Democrats. So It seems Republicans aren't even interested in compromise as they offer no debate and no amendments to these bills. They just sit on their hands.

What would you suggest now? Compromise isn't possible since the ball is in the GOP court.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Of course... There's plenty of ex-military members that would jump at the chance, and if we can send billions to the Ukraine we can protect our own children.

Well, not all military is combat and not all combat is like guarding people. And the requirement of being willing to take a bullet runs counter to some forms of military training in modern armies.

 

[F1fan]

Do you know how absurd and idiotic you sound for defending murdering kids by saying a small portion of them might get murdered?

Small portions ARE getting murdered. Can you acknowledge that? A small portion of 19 were murdered a few days ago. And you don't care. You value guns more than children.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You're contradicting yourself. First you say that there is no increase in violence, then ask what is driving the increase in violence.

You obviously didn't actually read what I wrote.

It looks like you didn't read what I wrote. It's still there in the quote above.

There's an increase only in one segment of the population, not overall.

Where do you get your data, and why do you consider it relevant even if correct?

I don't think the answer is really all that elusive. I already outlined much of it. You've got an angry people armed to the teeth who see violence as patriotic and taking back America from thieving Democrats who stole their election, in dead end jobs with no future and no savings who feel cheated out of their slice of the American pie by immigrants that Democrats are bussing in to vote Democratic, in a culture that lionizes the likes of Rittenhouse, and a culture that tells them implicitly that violence is acceptable by doing nothing about it as politicians like Trump, Greene and Boebert, and talking heads like Carlson normalize violence. What other outcome is possible?

Those people are not the ones shooting kids.

Sure they are, or their children. The last two mass killers have been 18-year olds, but they were not raised in a vacuum. They are products of gun culture. Rittenhouse was driven to Kenosha with an assault rifle by his mother. One of these shooter's parents (Ethan Crumbly) have recently been indicted for their part in their son's mass shooting. Angry, disaffected kids are produced by an angry families immersed in an angry culture:

Even if the Republicans were to suddenly do an about face and joint the Democrats in seeking solutions, this problem would not go away. The genie is already out of the bottle, as with Trump reversing himself on vaccination. The antivaxxer mentality had already entrenched itself and still remains.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

isn't this a nice example of the non-American taking the issue more seriously than the American

This misses what's really going on. It's not a lack of seriousness...it's serious orientation to conflicting positions. Essentially, 2 sides aren't cooperating to find a workable compromise.

One side is working against it. What evidence do you have that the Republican party considers gun violence a problem? I've not seen one offer more than thoughts, prayers, and deflection away from discussion of guns. I'd call that a lack of seriousness in reining in this problem on the Republican side. How much more can they do to interfere or less to help?

I don't think the answer is really all that elusive. I already outlined much of it. You've got an angry people armed to the teeth who see violence as patriotic and taking back America from thieving Democrats who stole their election, in dead end jobs with no future and no savings who feel cheated out of their slice of the American pie by immigrants that Democrats are bussing in to vote Democratic, in a culture that lionizes the likes of Rittenhouse, and a culture that tells them implicitly that violence is acceptable by doing nothing about it as politicians like Trump, Greene and Boebert, and talking heads like Carlson normalize violence. What other outcome is possible?

You've listed many beliefs leading to violence. But how many actually were actually motives in any of the shootings under discussion?
Regarding school shootings, it appears to be a different set of problems...troubled children who don't receive proper care, but have access to powerful weapons.

I think I answered this to Wildswanderer a few moments ago. What was Rittenhouse's motive? To protect the streets of Kenosha? Who put such notions in his head? His president and his angry orbit of racists like Miller and Bannon and people like Jones and Carlson. Now, people like the two female ammosexuals pictured above flame the fire. How about the Tops killer, also a racist? What was his motive? Who knows what this latest one was thinking, but you can be assured that his culture put him in that state of mind, of anger, hopelessness, and unfairness, whether through his parents or the culture at large. I can identify with that. If I had gotten sucked into that, I might have become violent as well. Consider the January 6th insurrectionists. What made them violent? There's no mystery here.

 

[We Never Know]

In part, I was thinking about Beto O'rourke's outburst yesterday, and while I will acknowledge that he was grandstanding, I actually think that just getting some admission from Governor Abbott that part of the problem stems from his 7 laws signed in one day loosening up guns even more in Texas.

Just admitting that we screwed up is one good way to get started. At least we'll have that admission on record when we do calm down.

Of course new habits are needed -- the bare fact that there is a very real statistical aberration about gun violence in America versus the rest of the industrialized world tells us that.

I think some attention needs to be paid to priorities. As has been pointed out, there are tougher rules around driving, adopting pets and jay-walking than there are around firearms. And that seems askew. At least.

Priorities. How many of these should have priority...

"The US leads the way in...
-divorce
-drug addiction
-debt
-obesity
-rapes
-car thefts
-people on pharmaceutical drugs
-murders
-incarceration
-percentage of women taking antidepressants
-creating pornography
-etc.

-and total crimes period.

NUMBER ONE? 20 Shameful Categories In Which America Leads The World

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So its not a bad idea but probably won't work on all kids? No harm an trying.

Sadly this is reality for many/some kids...

Child- mommy, daddy lets play a game of candyland!
Parents- can't you see we are watching our favorite show. Go play in your room.
Child- drops head and walks off to play by theirself

Next day

Child- mommy, daddy lets play a game of Uno!
Parents- can't you see we are relaxing. Go play in your room.
Child- drops head and walks off to play by theirself

Next day

Child- mommy, daddy lets play catch!
Parents- can't you see your father is tired and I'm on the phone. Go play in your room
Child- drops head and walks off to play by theirself

Next day

Child- mommy, daddy lets play a game of shutes and ladders!
Parents- see what we got you. Your own video game. Go to your room and play.
Child- oh cool and walks off to play by theirself

Next day

Child- mommy, daddy play the video game with me!
Parents- whisper to teach other ("they have too much energy. We need to take them to the Dr to get some medication so they won't bother us all the time"). Maybe we will play tomorrow after your Dr visit. For now go to your room and play.
Child- drops head and walks off to play by theirself

That's not how it works. There are actual mental health professionals on this site so you probably want to be careful before throwing out such nonsense. We will notice it, and we will call you out on it.

 

[We Never Know]

That may work for some. But you kinda avoided my response to your argument that kids with ADHD are shooting up schools because they're being drugged with Ritalin and Adderall.

I didn't respond because I didn't say "kids with ADHD are shooting up schools because they're being drugged"

 

[We Never Know]

That's not how it works. There are actual mental health professionals on this site so you probably want to be careful before throwing out such nonsense. We will notice it, and we will call you out on it.

Thats fine. Call me out. And as pointed out several times, we don't know what they all do, we have a general idea what they should do.

 

[We Never Know]

That's not how it works. There are actual mental health professionals on this site so you probably want to be careful before throwing out such nonsense. We will notice it, and we will call you out on it.

And just courious, what degrees do you hold concerning mental health

 

[Wildswanderer]

Rittenhouse was driven to Kenosha with an assault rifle by his mother.

Rittenhouse isn't a mass shooter, he was defending himself against predators.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What was Rittenhouse's motive? To protect the streets of Kenosha?

Apparently wanting to protect people now makes you evil? What kind of Kool aid are you drinking?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Where do you get your data, and why do you consider it relevant even if correct?

Can't believe I have to explain this: why are 18 year old boys shooting thier peers? Lack of fathers.
Mass shooters-absent fathers link ignored by anti-gun activists

Peter Langman, an expert on the psychology of school shooters, compiled data that showed the vast majority came from households characterized by divorce and separation, abuse and neglect, alcoholism and drug addiction.

“Out of this sample of 56 school shooters, only 10 (18%) grew up in a stable home with both biological parents,” Mr. Langman wrote in a 2016 article. “In other words, 82% of the sample either grew up in dysfunctional families or without their parents together (for at least part of their lives).”

 

[F1fan]

One side is working against it. What evidence do you have that the Republican party considers gun violence a problem? I've not seen one offer more than thoughts, prayers, and deflection away from discussion of guns. I'd call that a lack of seriousness in reining in this problem on the Republican side. How much more can they do to interfere or less to help?

Texas governor Greg Abbott said in a press conference on Wednesday that there isn't a gun problem, there's a mental health problem. He said we need better mental health access. But he offered no investment into mental health access. I later learned that Texas ranks last of the 50 states in mental health access and services. So unless he suggests a mental health screening before anyone can buy a gun he offers no credible solution to protect society from another shooter.

I think I answered this to Wildswanderer a few moments ago. What was Rittenhouse's motive? To protect the streets of Kenosha?

His claimed purpose was to protect a business from rioters and looters. Oddly the owner cleared out the contents and didn't want the help. I'm not sure how he ended up walking the streets and getting involved with other people. As we know he shot numerous people and some died.

He was an 18 year old, just like the Buffalo killer, and the Uvalde killer. I would suggest a ban on these rifles to anyone under 21. They can't drink a beer but they can walk around with an AR15.