Does it matter what we believe if we don’t love one another ?

[CG Didymus]

Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?

"Does it matter what we believe if we don’t love one another?" What about those that try to love all people? Does it matter which religion they're in? I don't think any one religion has "The Truth". And I don't care if they are completely made-up, fictional stories and beliefs. It still can get some people to be loving, kind, humble and all those good things. But, because each religion and each sect in each religion has a different take on what is The Truth, for lots of people, religions have lost their credibility. Even with a new religion like the Baha'i Faith.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I know how you feel. I guess you just wanted to reaffirm. I disagree with your view.
I think that mindset is limited to a closed or narrow view.

This talk by Abdul'baha offers an alternate thought.

"...The hearts of all children are of the utmost purity. They are mirrors upon which no dust has fallen. But this purity is on account of weakness and innocence, not on account of any strength and testing, for as this is the early period of their childhood, their hearts and minds are unsullied by the world. They cannot display any great intelligence. They have neither hypocrisy nor deceit. This is on account of the child's weakness, whereas the man becomes pure through his strength. Through the power of intelligence he becomes simple; through the great power of reason and understanding and not through the power of weakness he becomes sincere. When he attains to the state of perfection, he will receive these qualities; his heart becomes purified, his spirit enlightened, his soul is sensitized and tender -- all through his great strength. This is the difference between the perfect man and the child. Both have the underlying qualities of simplicity and sincerity -- the child through the power of weakness and the man through the power of strength...c

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 52

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Where do you live that makes you think religion has been abandoned? I live in Dallas and the churches are full and expanding.

One only has to glance at the wars, moral degradation, domestic violence, rapes, suicides, alcoholism, child sexual abuse, poverty, the disunity between nations and religions, terrorism, gun violence - today 14 children were shot dead in Texas. And there’s a whole lot more that indicates society is irreligious by nature no matter how many churches are full.

 

[ppp]

One only has to glance at the wars, moral degradation, domestic violence, rapes, suicides, alcoholism, child sexual abuse, poverty, the disunity between nations and religions, terrorism, gun violence - today 14 children were shot dead in Texas. And there’s a whole lot more that indicates society is irreligious by nature no matter how many churches are full.

At what point in recorded human history was the world not full of wars, moral degradation, domestic violence, rapes, suicides, alcoholism, child sexual abuse, poverty, the disunity between nations and religions, terrorism, gun weapon violence?

At what point in recorded human history were these things not committed in the service of religion?

I think that your vision of human history could bear a reality check. Right now. We are better than we have ever been.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No prophet? Are you certain about that?
There are quite a lot. However, just to name a few.

Moses
(Exodus 23:13) “You must be careful to do all that I have said to you, and you must not mention the names of other gods; they should not be heard on your lips.

(Deuteronomy 7:16) You are to destroy all the peoples whom Jehovah your God gives over to you. You must not feel sorry for them, and you must not serve their gods, because that would be a snare to you.

Elijah
(1 Kings 18:21-22) 21 Then E·liʹjah approached all the people and said: “How long will you be limping between two different opinions? If Jehovah is the true God, follow him; but if Baʹal is, follow him!” But the people did not say a word in answer to him. 22 E·liʹjah then said to the people: “I am the only prophet of Jehovah left, while the prophets of Baʹal are 450 men.

Jeremiah
(Jeremiah 11:17) “Jehovah of armies, your Planter, has declared that a calamity will come upon you because of the evil committed by the house of Israel and the house of Judah, who have offended me by making sacrifices to Baʹal.”

Hosea
(Hosea 2:13) I will hold an accounting against her for the days when she offered sacrifices to the Baʹal images,. . .

Zephaniah
(Zephaniah 1:4, 5) 4 “I will stretch out my hand against Judah And against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, And I will wipe out from this place every vestige of Baʹal, The name of the foreign-god priests along with the priests, 5 And those who bow down on the rooftops to the army of the heavens, And those who bow down and pledge loyalty to Jehovah While pledging loyalty to Malʹcam;

All the prophets actually described how God was indignant because his people accepted the worship of other nations around. (2 Kings 17:7-18)

Interfaith was condemned by God, from the inception of prophets, until now.
In fact, the Israelites were not only to refuse associating with those nations, and sharing in their worship, but they were required to pull down all their sacred pillars, and reduce them to rubble.

The apostles too needed to avoid false worship.
Paul said...
"Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.’” “‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.” - 2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

" No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons. Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’? We are not stronger than he is, are we? - 1 Corinthians 10:20-22

God gives people who are associated with false religion, the warning, to get out... leave, before it is too late.
Revelation 18:4 - And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.

There is an enormous difference between cooperating with others for the betterment of humanity and to affiliate with the ungodly.

Mixing and associating with the righteous and God fearing is never condemned in the Bible. No doubt clergy who’s aim is to maintain a stranglehold on their followers for want of power and wealth have abused the trust placed in them by designating other faiths as demons and false gods which their followers swallow hook, line and sinker.

But nowhere in the Bible does it refer to that Buddha or Krishna or Muhammad or Baha’u’llah by name that are false Prophets.

The Bible never teaches prejudice against other religions or interfaith.

 

[loverofhumanity]

"Does it matter what we believe if we don’t love one another?" What about those that try to love all people? Does it matter which religion they're in? I don't think any one religion has "The Truth". And I don't care if they are completely made-up, fictional stories and beliefs. It still can get some people to be loving, kind, humble and all those good things. But, because each religion and each sect in each religion has a different take on what is The Truth, for lots of people, religions have lost their credibility. Even with a new religion like the Baha'i Faith.

That’s the main point. Love between the people of the world can stop wars and establish peace. Armies should refuse to take up arms to kill fellow human beings. There is no justification for the Russian army killing Ukrainians or Burmese military killing Burmese or Syria too. This is the lack of love for all mankind. The fact they agree is because they see the other side as ‘them or the enemy’.

All we need to do is accept each other as equals.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think that your vision of human history could bear a reality check. Right now. We are better than we have ever been.

We are better off, and Baha'is believe the reason for that is the coming of Baha'u'llah, who, like Jesus in His Day, shed the splendor of His glory upon all of humanity.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Bible never teaches prejudice against other religions or interfaith.

No it doesn't, it is some Christians who teach that.

 

[ppp]

We are better off, and Baha'is believe the reason for that is the coming of Baha'u'llah, who, like Jesus in His Day, shed the splendor of His glory upon all of humanity.

You believe a thing. Meh.

 

[loverofhumanity]

At what point in recorded human history was the world not full of wars, moral degradation, domestic violence, rapes, suicides, alcoholism, child sexual abuse, poverty, the disunity between nations and religions, terrorism, gun weapon violence?

At what point in recorded human history were these things not committed in the service of religion?

I think that your vision of human history could bear a reality check. Right now. We are better than we have ever been.

So Hiroshima and Nagasaki were better? The Holocaust was better? The world wars? Cambodia 2 million dead better?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am sure other examples can also be found, like many aspects of the United Nations.

UNO is a redundant organization, a money-guzzler and a propaganda tool for rich nations.

Even with a new religion like the Baha'i Faith.

Bahaiism is hardly new. Ahmadiyya Islam is later than that. There are new faiths in India, Arya Samaj, Brahmakumari, Ayyuavazhi, etc. There are others too all around the world.

This talk by Abdul'baha offers an alternate thought.

Do talks matter, of Abdul Baha for other than those in Bahaiism? One can't even understand Bahai flowery talks.

One only has to glance at the wars, moral degradation, domestic violence, rapes, suicides, alcoholism, child sexual abuse, poverty, the disunity between nations and religions, terrorism, gun violence - today 14 children were shot dead in Texas. And there’s a whole lot more that indicates society is irreligious by nature no matter how many churches are full.

Hope that now you understand. This is the world, this is life, not your Utopia.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do talks matter, of Abdul Baha for other than those in Bahaiism? One can't even understand Bahai flowery talks.

Abdul'baha lived the example He offered. So we are to look at him, follow him and be as he was.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Abdul'baha live the example He offered. So we are to look at him, follow him and be as he was.

Your 'we' is for you, not for me.

There is an enormous difference between cooperating with others for the betterment of humanity and to affiliate with the ungodly.But nowhere in the Bible does it refer to that Buddha or Krishna or Muhammad or Baha’u’llah by name that are false Prophets.

What do you mean by 'ungodly'? Evil or non-believers or both?
Cooperation requires acceptance. There can be no cooperation if you say that other religions are inadequate and only yours is correct.
How is Bible important for people who are not from Abrahamic religions? And prophecy, for an atheist like me, is another word for fakery.
How would Bible mention the name of Buddha or Krishna? The writer of Talmud and Gospels were most probably not even aware of them.
How could Bible name Mohammad, James Smith, Bahaollah or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad when they were born centuries later after the Gospels were written?

 

[Polymath257]

Says the moral one.

Most atheists are more moral than the God of the Bible. Otherwise they would be in prison.

Most Christians or Muslims or Jews or Taoists (etc) are more moral than the God of the Bible.

 

[ppp]

At what point in recorded human history was the world not full of wars, moral degradation, domestic violence, rapes, suicides, alcoholism, child sexual abuse, poverty, the disunity between nations and religions, terrorism, gun weapon violence?

At what point in recorded human history were these things not committed in the service of religion?

So Hiroshima and Nagasaki were better? The Holocaust was better? The world wars? Cambodia 2 million dead better?

You were attempting to connect a lack of sincere religiosity with the earlier litany of immoral actions. My point is that at whatever point in history you choose as having a high level of sincere religiosity you are going to find those same actions.

You may have heard of Rawls Veil of Ignorance. Let's say that we were going to be placed into the world not knowing what our locality, gender, sex, preference, race, economic class, caste, etc would be. Let's also say that we could each choose the century in which we were born. I would choose the here and now. Hands down. You?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Does your religion have true love and unity ...

... and can we all agree that no true Scotsman puts maple syrup on porridge?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Your 'we' is for you, not for me.
What do you mean by 'ungodly'? Evil or non-believers or both?
Cooperation requires acceptance. There can be no cooperation if you say that other religions are inadequate and only yours is correct.
How is Bible important for people who are not from Abrahamic religions? And prophecy, for an atheist like me, is another word for fakery.
How would Bible mention the name of Buddha or Krishna? The writer of Talmud and Gospels were most probably not even aware of them.
How could Bible name Mohammad, James Smith, Bahaollah or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad when they were born centuries later after the Gospels were written?

By ungodly I’m referring to the criminal segment of society such as drug pushers, terrorists etc. Not to become involved with them.

My argument is that if the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and according to believers it is, then God would have knowledge of all that has been and will be and so could warn the believers not to follow Buddha or Krishna or Muhammad and Baha’u’llah.

But He didn’t so there is no Biblical support for condemning the major religions as false. It is an interpretation devised by the clergy so as not to lose their followers to other religions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You were attempting to connect a lack of sincere religiosity with the earlier litany of immoral actions. My point is that at whatever point in history you choose as having a high level of sincere religiosity you are going to find those same actions.

You may have heard of Rawls Veil of Ignorance. Let's say that we were going to be placed into the world not knowing what our locality, gender, sex, preference, race, economic class, caste, etc would be. Let's also say that we could each choose the century in which we were born. I would choose the here and now. Hands down. You?

It depends where you live. If you live in comfort under a just government you might prefer the here and now.

But ask a Ukrainian or a Burmese or a Syrian if they prefer the here and now.

 

[Nakosis]

Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?

Personally I think this idea of love fixing everything is overrated. I don't need to love some guy not to want any harm to come to them.
Just because I don't hold this idea of brotherly love means I'm going to go about causing my fellow man unnecessary grief.

If we need religion to keep us from going about being ******** to other folks then there is something really wrong with us.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If we need religion to keep us from going about being ******** to other folks then there is something really wrong with us.

It is obvious we need education.

The major part of that education needs to be the knowledge that will enable us to be a global citizen that will work with all humanity. To see and live life without any predudices of race, gender or religion, to see all humanity as one family and to participate in that family of man by living life in virtues and morals that empowers us to offer service to each other.

Education requires structure, discipline and security of family, as without the foundarion of loving parents, who initiate that education, the world dives deeper into materialism and anarchist ways of life.

What other movements, apart from Love and service based faith, have provided that possibility on a global scale? That we as humanity are yet to embrace a global love and service based effort is really the quandary faced by your remark. Faith offers the path to a global peace, that possibility is a choice.

Look at the world is a unity of effort needed, is a global effort to find and maintain peace needed, or not?

Regards Tony