Does it matter what we believe if we don’t love one another ?

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, all the nations of the world must unite and destroy their nuclear weapons and tanks and rockets and machine guns. I'm sure not one of those countries would lie about it and hide a few weapons. Yeah right, in the U.S. we can't even get civilians to disarm. But... then again, God did tell the Baha'i prophet that it will happen. And who can argue with that?

Yeah, one cannot argue with God, his messengers or manifestations. If they say LGBTQ are abominations, then they are. If they say women are inferior to men, then they are.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I guess you are referring to the Book of Revelation and what it says about the New Jerusalem. Yes, I know those verses but I don't interpret them literally so I do not think that the New Jerusalem is a Holy City that will come down out of heaven from God.

Revelation 21
New International Version

A New Heaven and a New Earth

21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

I believe that the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, refers to the new Law of God that came by way of Revelation of Baha'u'llah.

“The time foreordained unto the peoples and kindreds of the earth is now come. The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation. Happy is the man that pondereth in his heart that which hath been revealed in the Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Meditate upon this, O ye beloved of God, and let your ears be attentive unto His Word, so that ye may, by His grace and mercy, drink your fill from the crystal waters of constancy, and become as steadfast and immovable as the mountain in His Cause.

In the Book of Isaiah it is written: “Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty.” No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day—the Day of God Himself. ”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-13

That's what happens when you mix your errors with the truth.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Which governments, USA and Russia, or China and India, or Iran and Saudi Arabia?

All the governments of the world.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Let them first settle the Ukraine question. Then we will settle India-China-Pakistan border problem, then we will solve China/South China Sea problem, then we will settle Saudi Arabia/Iran Sunni/ Shia problem, then we will North and South Korea problem, then we will settle China-Taiwan problem, then we will solve Israel/Palestine problem, then we will solve Syria/Turkey problem. There may be problems in Africa also. As for Afghan-Pakistan problem, I do not think anyone can solve that.

 

[joe1776]

Like most irreligious you are taking this way too literally. I'm pretty sure the literal message he is trying to convey is to show love and compassion towards everybody you interact with. To treat others the way you want to be treated. Yes, Baha'is and other faiths exaggerate these claims but I think overall their golden rule is don't be unkind to others. And that is something we all need to practice on a fundamental level.

Conscience, the moral intuition we were born with, surpasses the Golden Rule as a moral guide. It rewards kindness shown to others but allows killing in self-defense, for example.

 

[KW]

Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?

Where do you live that makes you think religion has been abandoned? I live in Dallas and the churches are full and expanding.

 

[nPeace]

I think one of the more horrible teachings is that people who don't believe the way you do are incapable of true love. It dehumanizes others and that makes it easier to commit injustice.

For this reason, those quotes of John are, I believe, supremely immoral.

From what I have seen, it is that people *care* about others that religion is so often rejected. All too often, religions come across as hateful and full of condemnation instead of loving and caring. That is a very good reason to reject those religions.

I believe you are confusing affection with love.
If you contend that they are the same, then we need to define them. I'll be happy to hear how you define them.

It would be nice to hear your view on perfect love. Even if not perfect, what would be love that is worthy of everyone having.

Though you don't agree, affection is a natural product of man. We normally have affection.
It can, and has been diminishing, being replaced by selfishness and other negative traits.

Love is a quality that encompasses so much, which many don't even consider.
They think they have love, because they think love is what they determine love to be, but that's not love.
The Bible says, there exist a way thet seems right to a man, but the ways of death are the end of it, or the result.

To give an example, caring about one's neighbor takes a back seat to those who want to smoke a cigar... next to someone, or with a growing fetus in their midsection.
They even cry, "Its my body. I can do whatever I want with my body."... while being happy to end a developing life.
Love?

Whether you want to accept it or not, love is of, and from God. Only by knowing God, can one truly have love.
While it is true one can grow in love, they need to work at perfecting love.
Even I am working at that.
We only have a measure, and this too is a product of man. All of us are born with God's attributes within us. Only they are not our dominant attitudes, but we have the potential.

Let me illustrate what I mean by that.
A person may say, they are humble, but are they really?
While they may have a measure of humility, that doesn't make them humble.
For example, they may help an old lady across the road, or open the door for someone about to enter a store, but they may not be teachable, or willing to accept counsel, or correction.
They are not humble.

Likewise, the same with love.
Everyone has the potential, but one needs to learn what love is, and what it involves.
Would you like to learn? You don't agree though.

With regard to John 13:35, we are considering data - evidence... something scientists are interested in.
If we find a people on earth who fit the mark Jesus gave, then we know that they are Jesus disciple, which would prove, not just that Jesus words are true, but it would prove the other statement of John, and others - God is love. Love is from God.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Let them first settle the Ukraine question. Then we will settle India-China-Pakistan border problem, then we will solve China/South China Sea problem, then we will settle Saudi Arabia/Iran Sunni/ Shia problem, then we will North and South Korea problem, then we will settle China-Taiwan problem, then we will solve Israel/Palestine problem, then we will solve Syria/Turkey problem. There may be problems in Africa also. As for Afghan-Pakistan problem, I do not think anyone can solve that.

The elixir of a unity of effort, taken together as one human race, is the cure of all.

Regards Tony

 

[nPeace]

What about beliefs that tell one to love one’s own religion but condemn other religions as false? No Prophet taught this but it’s a fact religionists from differing faiths don’t mix much or even have conflict with followers of other faiths.

No prophet? Are you certain about that?
There are quite a lot. However, just to name a few.

Moses
(Exodus 23:13) “You must be careful to do all that I have said to you, and you must not mention the names of other gods; they should not be heard on your lips.

(Deuteronomy 7:16) You are to destroy all the peoples whom Jehovah your God gives over to you. You must not feel sorry for them, and you must not serve their gods, because that would be a snare to you.

Elijah
(1 Kings 18:21-22) 21 Then E·liʹjah approached all the people and said: “How long will you be limping between two different opinions? If Jehovah is the true God, follow him; but if Baʹal is, follow him!” But the people did not say a word in answer to him. 22 E·liʹjah then said to the people: “I am the only prophet of Jehovah left, while the prophets of Baʹal are 450 men.

Jeremiah
(Jeremiah 11:17) “Jehovah of armies, your Planter, has declared that a calamity will come upon you because of the evil committed by the house of Israel and the house of Judah, who have offended me by making sacrifices to Baʹal.”

Hosea
(Hosea 2:13) I will hold an accounting against her for the days when she offered sacrifices to the Baʹal images,. . .

Zephaniah
(Zephaniah 1:4, 5) 4 “I will stretch out my hand against Judah And against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, And I will wipe out from this place every vestige of Baʹal, The name of the foreign-god priests along with the priests, 5 And those who bow down on the rooftops to the army of the heavens, And those who bow down and pledge loyalty to Jehovah While pledging loyalty to Malʹcam;

All the prophets actually described how God was indignant because his people accepted the worship of other nations around. (2 Kings 17:7-18)

Interfaith was condemned by God, from the inception of prophets, until now.
In fact, the Israelites were not only to refuse associating with those nations, and sharing in their worship, but they were required to pull down all their sacred pillars, and reduce them to rubble.

The apostles too needed to avoid false worship.
Paul said...
"Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.’” “‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.” - 2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

" No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons. Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’? We are not stronger than he is, are we? - 1 Corinthians 10:20-22

God gives people who are associated with false religion, the warning, to get out... leave, before it is too late.
Revelation 18:4 - And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.

 

[nPeace]

Based on the stories told about that deity, yes, definitely. A global flood that kills innocent children, a genocide that kills everybody in a town, etc. Those are hardly good for humanity.

Perhaps you define innocent in the other ways it can be defined, but by this definition - not guilty of a crime or offence., those children were not innocent, and the udge acted based on that, rather than on your feelings about the matter.

They were guilty by omission - a failure to fulfil a moral or legal obligation.

 

[Polymath257]

Perhaps you define innocent in the other ways it can be defined, but by this definition - not guilty of a crime or offence., those children were not innocent, and the udge acted based on that, rather than on your feelings about the matter.

They were guilty by omission - a failure to fulfil a moral or legal obligation.

how in the world would a one year old be guilty of any crime or offense? Any judge that would say that they are is evil.

What possible moral obligation would a one year old child have?

 

[Polymath257]

Whether you want to accept it or not, love is of, and from God. Only by knowing God, can one truly have love.

And I completely an utterly disagree. In fact, I think that holding that position sets oneself up for great evil. It is, in fact, the origin of a great many evils of this world.

 

[nPeace]

how in the world would a one year old be guilty of any crime or offense? Any judge that would say that they are is evil.

That's your opinion.... and it has been noted... time and time again.

What possible moral obligation would a one year old child have?

Are you asking for a Biblical answer, or do you want a non-Biblical answer?
I thought Atheist are supposed to know the Bible better than Christians.
Are you saying you don't know?

 

[nPeace]

And I completely an utterly disagree. In fact, I think that holding that position sets oneself up for great evil. It is, in fact, the origin of a great many evils of this world.

I know how you feel. I guess you just wanted to reaffirm. I disagree with your view.
I think that mindset is limited to a closed or narrow view.

 

[Polymath257]

That's your opinion.... and it has been noted... time and time again.


Are you asking for a Biblical answer, or do you want a non-Biblical answer?
I thought Atheist are supposed to know the Bible better than Christians.
Are you saying you don't know?

I want a *moral* answer. And clearly that doesn't come from the Bible.

 

[nPeace]

I want a *moral* answer. And clearly that doesn't come from the Bible.

Says the moral one.

 

[Trailblazer]

What possible moral obligation would a one year old child have?

None.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The elixir of a unity of effort, taken together as one human race, is the cure of all.

Unity is the enemy of diversity.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yeah, one cannot argue with God, his messengers or manifestations. If they say LGBTQ are abominations, then they are. If they say women are inferior to men, then they are.

But wait, God changed his mind... He told the Baha'i prophet that men and women are equal. I wonder if God also told him not to let women serve on the Baha'i Universal House of Justice or if the Baha'i men came up with that one?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Unity is the enemy of diversity.

I see that is not so, the model of the Baha'i Faith is one example.

I am sure other examples can also be found, like many aspects of the United Nations.

Regards Tony