I would disagree. The rules concerning when self-defense is justified and what level of force is reasonable are based on caring and compassion.
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Does it matter what we believe if we don’t love one another ?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
I would disagree. The rules concerning when self-defense is justified and what level of force is reasonable are based on caring and compassion.
No, that is wrong. First of all, there is no single morality that all atheists subscribe to. ALL they agree upon is that there are no deities.
In my view, morality is based on thinking and caring, not just on survival. Human well-being is the fundamental value. Survival is certainly one component of that, but so is the ability to live a satisfying and fulfilled life.
I think it is possible to make moral judgements on the characters in the Bible, including the character of God. Do they promote human well-being or not? And, when a clear judgement is made, that God is a cruel, vindictive, egotistical, genocidal maniac.
In my view, creating us isn't enough to counter that evil. of course, I consider the whole story to be fiction, so it isn't really a problem.
What about beliefs that tell one to love one’s own religion but condemn other religions as false? No Prophet taught this but it’s a fact religionists from differing faiths don’t mix much or even have conflict with followers of other faiths.
Yeah... they're kind of the religious equivalent of this:
I don't see creating a new religion as an act that is consistent with the goal of unity.
Edit: and while Baha'is pay lip-service to the idea that their religion is the unification of the worlds' religions, in practice, this seems to be more of a proselytizing tactic than a pursuit of actual unity: "hey, I know you're worried about committing apostasy from your current religion, but our religion is the successor to yours, so it wouldn't really be apostasy if you convert. Go on! Try it!"
Don’t you think it would be good for all the religions to get along? No one says they have to become Baha’is.
syo
Well-Known Member
Religion is tribalism; that's part of the point of it, IMO. For everyone to get along, we would all need to abandon religion.
Expecting a religious sect to end sectarianism is a lot like expecting a political party to end partisanship. It seems like a contradiction in terms, IMO.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
That statement is not true either. However, I find your previous statement easier to attack. Your earlier statement was: I'm an atheist, but I consider caring for others to be the test of morality.
A killing in self-defense is certainly not an act of caring and yet it is a moral act. Therefore caring for others is not a test of morality.
syo
Well-Known Member
As long as it's not emotion.
Maybe. But let’s take states. America was once divided into north and south yet they united as one nation and the people who live in it are now called Americans. Have states disappeared? No. They have just become a part of a wider federation.
So with religions and the countries of the world, none has to give up their nationhood, religion or identity just become part of a wider, more inclusive world federation.
Along the way to nationhood there were many wars, yet in the end nationhood took hold and now it’s a part of daily life. Of course there will be similar problems along the path to world unity, but as past history has shown conclusively, we all ended up establishing nations.
When Prophets ask their followers to love all, what do you think they mean?
syo
Well-Known Member
Just be nice. We shouldn't have feelings.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Since you asked me, a strong atheist, I believe prophets are fakes or people with psychological problems (like change the world). The world does not change.
They mean to be recognized as someone special (narcissism , megalomania) or are looking for some kind of profit.
Got an idea. Ok. Let’s pretend. Hard core make believe ok? Let’s say all the governments on earth pool their resources and wealth and establish permanent free worldwide Medicare, permanent free education, a basic wage worldwide for all, and ensure none go in need and work is provided for all.
The catch would be to make peace and drastically reduce military spending by pouring it into peoples quality of life.
Wouldn’t that be an example of loving all humanity? To me it would.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Exactly. It's completely relative. So anything you decide on is your morality.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Because you know better than an all powerful entity what is best for humanity?
Just like you adopt the reality of your particular religion.
Doesn't human well-being sounds like an appropriate basis for morality? Certainly one that is better than 'please a deity'?
Based on the stories told about that deity, yes, definitely. A global flood that kills innocent children, a genocide that kills everybody in a town, etc. Those are hardly good for humanity.