RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
For example, Benedict was not liked by many and his detractors used to say he was too cold, silent, and conservative.
Yes, people are often quick to judge
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For example, Benedict was not liked by many and his detractors used to say he was too cold, silent, and conservative.
Well he is an adult. Why not? Maybe not in a professional setting but among his friends sure.It depends. Can a pope make vulgar jokes too?
I mean, publiclyWell he is an adult. Why not? Maybe not in a professional setting but among his friends sure.
According to Catholic doctrine, faith is not necessary but neither is it sufficient. The same goes for works. The sum of the trifecta of faith, works and grace decides.
Honestly i don't see an issue depending on the context and what the circumstances were of the joke. But I'm not one for conventional norms and know folk tend to have high standards for their religious leaders standards they don't expect others or themselves to reach. I think if the norm doesnt have a point it shouldn't exist and to me there is no point to the pope not being allowed to make them unless you count convention. To me I wouldn't care if the pope made a vulgar joke so long as it doesnt degrade anyone.I mean, publicly
Franciscus himself said he believes atheists can go to heaven. But if you apply the formula, you'd better have good deeds and enough grace if your faith is 0.That is true.
But if the RCC openly said that faith is not necessary, their purpose to evangelize would be jeopardized.
So they need to say faith is necessary. But in reality they do not think that good atheists are bad people or people that God does not save.
Why not? The pope is a man.It depends. Can a pope make vulgar jokes too?
It is generally a pattern with PF's self-deprecating humor.
On top of that, we as Catholics are not taught that we should judge ourselves or others as that's God's domain.
My wife said after listening to it that PF was clearly trying to soothe and reassure her that her son's autistic behavior would not at all likely be a threat to his salvation. If you've dealt with autism, you'd know that the behavior of those who have it can be quite unpredictable and even hostile at times.I guess it was just a wrong humor.
I don't know with certainty, but she gave him a cordial goodbye.The question is "how did the woman respond"?
The above is a non-sequitur, thus you really haven't put "two and two together".@pearl
Nevertheless, we have a Vatican that is rumored to be a Freemasonic den, and there is another rumor that says that some Freemasons worship Satan,
Then a Pope, the head of the Universal Church, who is supposed to be Saint Peter's successor, jokes about Hell.
Well...I can put two and two together.
The woman sounded and looked weirded out, in my humble opinion.The question is "how did the woman respond"?
The above is a non-sequitur, thus you really haven't put "two and two together".
And so does my wife, and she soundly disagrees with you as she said PF's demeanor clearly was to soothe her fears over her child.I speak Italian so I do know if a particular tonality or intonation is "playful" or has some "malicious element".
And so does my wife, and she soundly disagrees with you as she said PF's demeanor clearly was to soothe her fears over her child.
What weirds me out is that people try to grasp at straws trying to find a logic in Bergoglio's words.
There is not.
I speak Italian so I do know if a particular tonality or intonation is "playful" or has some "malicious element".
After all...mine is a language wich has hundreds of different intonation, and they all depend on what one means to convey.
I surely did not like what he said, but above all they way he said it.
I know what I have perceived. And it was not pleasant.
And so does my wife, and she soundly disagrees with you as she said PF's demeanor clearly was to soothe her fears over her child.
Yes.@Estro Felino and @metis
Does the intonations in Italian change depending on the region? Much like with other languages? Maybe knowing that would help in this conversation?
If his was a serious point, he could have used the word Purgatory instead, which is what Catholics believe.
The word he used, Inferno, is scary and is not worthy of a Pope. Because he was not lecturing the cardinals, he was making a surprise to a wonderful autistic boy who loves him so much.
And that he didn't deserve this.
The Bible agrees with you because the wicked are 'destroyed forever' (Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22) so the ' eternal torment ' is 'eternal ruin' ( Douay 2 Thessalonians 1:9 ) The 'destruction' of ungodly people - 2 Peter 3:7 B.Nobody deserves eternal torment, especially not for some of the rather mundane things considered "mortal sins" by the Catholic Church, like profanity and missing mass.
Matthew 7:21James 2:17-18
What atheist follows Jesus' instruction found at Matthew 24:13-14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8 to go around telling others about the Good News (Gospel) of God's Kingdom (Daniel 2:44) in the hands of Christ Jesus for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26Franciscus himself said he believes atheists can go to heaven........