Bergoglio said: see you in Hell, maybe

[metis]

I would need to see more of the context plus try and find out what was PF really trying to say. I think it is highly unlikely that he meant the boy and him were destined for hell as that would be so far out of context of so many of his other statements. Hopefully, I hope he eventually clarifies this.

 

[metis]

It indeed said "inferno" @3:43 but the kid and mother don't seem like offended by joke.
According to my understanding of italian her response was this:
"look, we my end up there but not you"

To me, that sounds more plausible.

 

[metis]

I had my wife, who is from Sicily, listen to this, and she says that her interpretation is that he was questioning his own "sainthood" as the mother referred to him as, thus not the boy's.

@KenS

 

[Heyo]

I don't think of it as a morbid joke at all, but rather the Pope, reacting to being called "a saint," spoke from his heart. As a priest and bishop, he knows full well that his faith believes everyone -- even a Pope -- falls short of perfection, and needs absolution. And that being absolved, forgives the sin in Heaven -- and that this is available to this mother and son, as well.

Rather than "joke," I would prefer to use the phrase "wry comment" on a truth he feels strongly about.

Exactly.
I don't like the negative image of man Christians have but according to their faith, being a good person may help but is no guarantee for a ticket to heaven. So, Franciscus' comment was sincere, humble and in full accord with the church's teaching.

 

[metis]

Though his statement is dead wrong... maybe he was saying "I know myself better than you and if you think I am a saint, we are both in trouble"?

However, being the Pope, one would think that he understood that its the blood of Jesus that cleanses us...

So, VERY bad statement by the Pope - regardless.

It is generally a pattern with PF's self-deprecating humor.

On top of that, we as Catholics are not taught that we should judge ourselves or others as that's God's domain.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Can a Catholic Pope tell an autistic child “maybe we’ll see each other in hell?”...........................

I suppose anyone can say or talk about seeing each other in hell, but to which hell is being discussed ?
* There is the 'religious-myth hell' teaching about a permanent burning forever after death.
* There is the 'Bible's hell' which Jesus and the OT taught about being a temporary 'sleeping' in the grave.
Jesus and the OT both teach unconscious sleep (Not pain) in death:
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14
Once un-faithful Jews began mixing with the Greeks the hell-fire teaching crept into apostate Christianity.
When the Bible was first translated into English the word Gehenna was translated as hell fire.
Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed.
So, Gehenna is a fitting word for: destruction
Such as the Bible teaches the wicked to be 'destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22
Whereas ' sheol' the Hebrew word for the grave is the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Sleeping dead until Resurrection Day meaning: Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth.
This is why the 'future tense' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This whole literal Hell thing is not my favorite, but now they created it, I am at least glad, the Pope goes there together with the rest..........

Can anyone think of someone righteous who at death went to hell ______________Acts of the Apostles 2:27
The Bible's literal hell I find is simply mankind temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
This is because Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18
So, the Bible's hell is literally the temporary grave for the unconscious dead - Ecclesiastes 9:5
If biblical hell was permanent then Jesus would still be in hell/grave.
The wicked are Not considered as being in the grave/hell but being : destroyed forever.
Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22 & 2 Peter 3:9 it is either 'repent' or 'perish' (<-meaning be destroyed)

 

[Estro Felino]

I would need to see more of the context plus try and find out what was PF really trying to say. I think it is highly unlikely that he meant the boy and him were destined for hell as that would be so far out of context of so many of his other statements. Hopefully, I hope he eventually clarifies this.

That was not recent.

 

[pearl]

I had my wife, who is from Sicily, listen to this, and she says that her interpretation is that he was questioning his own "sainthood" as the mother referred to him as, thus not the boy's.

I think your wife is absolutely right.

 

[Estro Felino]

It is generally a pattern with PF's self-deprecating humor.

On top of that, we as Catholics are not taught that we should judge ourselves or others as that's God's domain.

@pearl
Nevertheless, we have a Vatican that is rumored to be a Freemasonic den, and there is another rumor that says that some Freemasons worship Satan,
Then a Pope, the head of the Universal Church, who is supposed to be Saint Peter's successor, jokes about Hell.
Well...I can put two and two together.

 

[stvdv]

So, the Bible's hell is literally the temporary grave for the unconscious dead - Ecclesiastes 9:5

Also in this context it is declared:

10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

 

[Estro Felino]

Exactly.
I don't like the negative image of man Christians have but according to their faith, being a good person may help but is no guarantee for a ticket to heaven. So, Franciscus' comment was sincere, humble and in full accord with the church's teaching.

If this were true, atheists would have no chance to go to Paradise.
So I think that atheists can still go to Heaven, because faith in a God is irrelevant. Goodness is relevant.

 

[firedragon]

To the people who will say : he was joking.
A pope cannot make these jokes. Especially because he is implying the lady too will go to Hell, and even if it is supposed to be a "joke", it is not a joke worthy of a pope.
But he is the Pope...right?

If this is a pope, I am the Blue Fairy.

If he is joking, he is not implying anything.

Anyway, I have never known that the Pope cannot joke. Maybe it's poor taste to make this kind joke for political reasons, but is it forbidden?

I think this shows that even the Pope is in the political game and people will judge them from transcended yardsticks.

 

[firedragon]

Hmmm. I wonder why he said that if he wasn't joking.

ROL. Purely by the standard you could deem he was joking.

 

[Estro Felino]

If he is joking, he is not implying anything.

Anyway, I have never known that the Pope cannot joke. Maybe it's poor taste to make this kind joke for political reasons, but is it forbidden?

I think this shows that even the Pope is in the political game and people will judge them from transcended yardsticks.

It depends. Can a pope make vulgar jokes too?

 

[firedragon]

It depends. Can a pope make vulgar jokes too?

You mean "should".

In my personal opinion, no he should not. But if he does make a bit of a vulgar joke, I will not think he is implying anything immediately unless I know his character to be vulgar, or I have a cognitive bias because I prototype the Catholic Church as vulgar. As an example that is.

 

[Heyo]

If this were true, atheists would have no chance to go to Paradise.
So I think that atheists can still go to Heaven, because faith in a God is irrelevant. Goodness is relevant.

According to Catholic doctrine, faith is not necessary but neither is it sufficient. The same goes for works. The sum of the trifecta of faith, works and grace decides.

 

[pearl]

Nevertheless, we have a Vatican that is rumored

And a pope rumored to have said 'it has served us well, this myth of Christ', Leo X.

 

[Estro Felino]

According to Catholic doctrine, faith is not necessary but neither is it sufficient. The same goes for works. The sum of the trifecta of faith, works and grace decides.

That is true.
But if the RCC openly said that faith is not necessary, their purpose to evangelize would be jeopardized.
So they need to say faith is necessary. But in reality they do not think that good atheists are bad people or people that God does not save.

 

[Estro Felino]

And a pope rumored to have said 'it has served us well, this myth of Christ', Leo X.

Not to mention Pope Borgia...