Is the Religious Right in America gunning for you?

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think so. you might want to see how many were deists. Definitely more than 1%. Guess who wrote the Constitution?

Thomas Paine is my favorite Founder. Among other things he went to jail violating blasphemy laws many times, harshly criticized Christianity frequently, and is an unsung hero and martyr for religious freedom.

 

[metis]

Nope.

Then you really don't have a clue how we work.

Divine creation, even though I personally believe in it, is not a scientific axiom, theory, nor hypothesis as we cannot observe it or find objectively derived evidence for it. If it could be, then that should be very obvious by now. Thus, you're conflating "belief" with "evidence".

 

[Sand Dancer]

We've never taken them seriously. Jehovah's First and America's First are inherently, fundamentally and explicitly incompatible with each other and are total opposites of each other.

4 of them are how to be a sycophant for Yahweh. Oh please...The adultery one is only for guys. A married man can sleep with a single woman but not a married woman because it's a property crime.

 

[SkepticThinker]

99 percent of the founders were Christians, when they referred to God that's the one they mean.

Even if that were true (and I don't think it is), that doesn't mean they founded the country on their religious beliefs. God isn't even mentioned in the Constitution.

I've always admired the US for being the only secular government in existence, as far as I know. You're telling me it isn't?

 

[Sheldon]

Thomas Paine is my favorite Founder. Among other things he went to jail violating blasphemy laws many times, harshly criticized Christianity frequently, and is an unsung hero and martyr for religious freedom.

“It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.”
The Age of Reason

A seminal work, I read Paine's book for the first time almost 33 years ago now. It is perhaps a shame a few more of his countrymen and women have not.

 

[Sheldon]

Yeah you still don't get it. Without A God you have no reason for morality at all.

Of course I do, my reasons are just as subjective and relevant to me as your blind subjective faith is to you, so you're the one who doesn't get it.

In this scenario we are nothing but animals.

There is no scenario where we are not animals, this is simply a delusion, refuted by even a cursory look at any dictionary.

 

[Sheldon]

I don't know what that means. The American system was based on a belief in a deity.

Nope it was based on the idea that belief of any kind, or the lack thereof, should be entirely separate from the state's influence, and a purely personal and inviolable right.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

[Sheldon]

That's what we were discussing. It's a common belief among atheists that everything is determined by blind causation.

No it isn't...

 

[Sheldon]

Why? Why would I care about your well being in a world where I'm a animal and where survival is the only goal?

Why is survival your only goal? It's an impractical one at that, since death is the price of admission for this ride. Yet I as an atheist do care about the wellbeing of others, it seems you want to ignore this fact and make up false claims about atheists.

I would care about my pack and kill your pack if you get in the way.

Exactly as many devoutly religious people have always behaved then, and just as the bible amply demonstrates.

 

[Sheldon]

99 percent of the founders were Christians,

Another made up stat, it's bizarre you don't see how embarrassing such nonsense is in a debate.

 

[Sheldon]

I am and they consistently illustrate that they have no basis for morality.

No they don't, I have explained my own several times, theist just prefer to lie about it, to peddle this tired old canard. The difference is that the basis of my morality is based on reason, not cherry picking archaic superstition, from bronze and iron age patriarchal Bedouins.

 

[Sheldon]

the atheist's universe has no guidance, it just does what it does for no discernable reason

Almost right, you just need to remove the word atheist from that disjointed rant. It's discernible by the way, not discernable (sic).

 

[Sheldon]

Jerry Coyne's ideas about morality.

I just described my views on morality to you, and oddly enough, you cut them out of my post and completely ignored them.

He did the same to my posts, each time I corrected his sweeping false claims about atheists.

 

[Sheldon]

If you allow the possibility of purpose in the universe, you start to see why everything looks like it was created.

Circular reasoning fallacy.

And that's not breaking any laws of science.

Yes it is, one of science's most basic and essential necessities is falsifiability. Unfalsifiable ideas are discarded as meaningless. They are "not even wrong"...

 

[Sheldon]

The same totally subjective " reason" over and over. Yawn.

You claimed we had no basis for morality, now they are offered in refutation of your absurd bombast, you move the goal posts. Best of all of course is you cannot offer a single example of an objective moral either, hilarious. Just point to some claims, in a book...

 

[Sheldon]

There's nothing subjective about a supreme authority.

Of course there is, the claim it exists is entirely subjective.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Sorry but John the Baptist was executed for saying that the king was immoral. Jesus threw a Temple Tantrum, assaulting people with a whip. They were executed for political resistance.

Yes, John was vocal about the immorality.
No temper tantrum, but ZEAL for God's House of Worship by throwing out the corrupted money changers.
The religious leaders did Not have the power to execute Jesus so they used trumped-up political charges:
Such as; treason, sedition and injured majesty in order for the Romans to do their dirty work - Acts 3:15

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There is nothing wrong with that. Eve was created after the rule was given. If you argue Adam told her about it, then he is responsible for why she says it wrong.

Yes, Adam was responsible for Eve. Adam was Not deceived according to 1 Timothy 2:14 - but Eve was deceived.
Eve told the known truth to Satan according to Genesis 3:2-3.
Adam by choosing to listen to Eve chose death (suicide) rather than obey God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But not religiously neutral, and back then, religion and politics were mixed.

The corrupted Jewish religious leaders used the political to execute Jesus.
They did Not have the power to execute Jesus so they used political trumped-up charges against Jesus.
Charges such as: Sedition, Treason and Injured Majesty to get the Romans to do their dirty work.
Political Pilate found No fault with Jesus.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Ok the idiocy of your comparison aside, countries like the UK, and Australia that introduced strict gun laws after mass shootings, have hardly any gun crime. The US by comparison has some of the highest gun crime rates in the world.

Like North Korea or Communist China?