No more babies being delivered at NY hospital

[Evangelicalhumanist]

.

Not forcing, they have a choice, they chose to leave.

This is exactly right. I am not forced to be vaccinated -- and the bar I enjoy hanging out in is not forced to accept me as a customer if I'm not. What could be simpler?

Thing is -- I honestly thought that nurses and other healthcare workers would actually know better, and be less motivated by idiotic political notions like a supposed coercion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Your link says this:

At least 209,437,152 people or 64% of the population have received at least one dose.

Overall, 178,692,875 people or 54% of the population have been fully vaccinated.

The 83% is the amount of vaccines used.

So the USA is well below the level we need for herd immunity.


No one knew there was going to be a errors attack on 9-11. We all know Covid is all around us, and there are ways to limit the spread: mask use and vaccination.

I'm not sure what you mean.



We still need more testing and more access. People are getting exposed without knowing it and infecting others. I was face to face with clients three days after i was exposed and that evening I started feeling sick. Luckily I did not infect anyone. But I quarantined until I could get a test. But I knew by then that people at the wedding I attended were testing positive.



But Covid is real, and people are actually getting infected in public. Its just that many don't give a **** and think it's just the flu. I never feared Covid but I know I didn't want it. I got vaccinated and wore my masks in public. I just happened to get shot in the back, along with about 60 others, by a Covid assassin. We trusted everyone would respect the event and family/friends. But it just took one selfish guy.

I'll address the rest later. Biden said he wants near 90% I mentioned and said we are pretty close. We don't know why people are still unvaxed whether it be choice, hesitant, exempt, or lack of resource. We don't know.

Now that there are mandates I think it would reach herd immunity though I wouldn't expect it to take place overnight

Edit
Take that back, 70%
Graphic: Track Biden’s latest vaccination goals

Here's some extra info

Fact Sheet: President Biden to Announce All Americans to be Eligible for Vaccinations by May 1, Puts the Nation on a Path to Get Closer to Normal by July 4th | The White House

 

[Alienistic]

So vaccinated people can still get sick, it's just not going to be as bad if unvaccinated.

This was the selling point for both of my in laws to receive their vaccination. Both were relatively healthy and now deceased 1 month and 3 months respectively after receiving their vaccinations. Were they lied to? (Not going to be as bad.) They were hit harder than a ton of bricks, all sorts of organ failures, etc. after testing positive for CV and hospitalized. Everyone’s immune/nervous system is unique.

Same with my employer. 23 positive cases out of work currently. 21 in which were vaccinated. Yet, the vaccinated are not required to wear masks and they walk around without masks as if they are immune and also don’t spread the virus.

 

[Revoltingest]

I go with the American Association of physicians and surgeons.

They are independent, not influenced by political strong-arm tactics, and are not at risk of losing their jobs and credentials if they don't agree to go along with political juggernauts like the CDC which ironically, used to be a great arm on the health crisis frontlines. Not anymore as far as I'm concerned.

The CDC is still useful, their initial stance on mask wearing
notwithstanding. Mrs Revolt's business is health care
analysis, & she trusts CDC info.
Any source can be wrong. But which sources are generally
reliable...that's what matters. So I typically use the CDC,
Johns Hopkins, & the Mayo Clinic.

 

[F1fan]

I'm trying to wrap myself around some of these statements. And, remember, I have no problems with regular vaccinations.

1) Every citizen has a responsibility for public health? Yes and no? Cigarette smoking? Vaping? Alcohol consumption?

However, if you are sick, you should stay home to protect others.

Remember, you don't want to get sick. Period.

You don't want to be killed by a drunk driver, so the government stepped in.

You don't want to be exposed to second hand smoke, so the government stepped in.

You don't want high speed car crashes, so the government stepped in and set speed limits.

You don't want to get food poisoning at restaurants, so the government stepped in and set food safety standards.

You don't want your child to be shot and killed at school, well the government hasn't stepped in.

You don't want to be exposed to Covid, well the government and some businesses are stepping in.

The bottom line is there's a lot of freedom out there but just enough citizens who are NOT responsible enough to do the right thing, so government has to step in to help protect the common good.

2) Healthcare system offset poor judgment? No.

"“Super-users” with complex medical needs make up a small fraction of U.S. patients, but they account for half of the nation’s overall health-care spending."

The Super-Users Dominating Health-Care Spending

Adult Obesity Facts - CDC

• From 1999 –2000 through 2017 –2018, US obesity prevalence increased from 30.5% to 42.4%. During the same time, the prevalence of severe obesity increased from 4.7% to 9.2%.

• Obesity-related conditionsexternal icon include heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. These are among the leading causes of preventable, premature death.

• The estimated annual medical cost of obesityexternal icon in the United States was $147 billion in 2008. Medical costs for people who had obesity was $1,429 higher than medical costs for people with healthy weight.

Obesity is a Common, Serious, and Costly Disease

And with universal healthcare push, it will definitely not adjust for poor judgment

I'm an athlete and I have a bit of prejudice against people who do not have good eating and exercise habits. There are many Americans who are obese and don't care. When i was in college I studied health psychology and was stunned how many people are indifferent to their health. They just don't care.

These are bad habits and poor judgment. This sort of indifference to health could be related to people not caring about Covid or being vaccinated.

3) No problem trying to reduce covid... but use regularly made vaccines that go through the regular process.

As we have previously noted, it isn't a political right and left... there are people for and against on both political sides.

I posted stats earlier in this thread and Democrats were about 90% vaccinated while Republicans were about 55%. That's a dramatic difference.

4) To say that 662,000 have died of covid. - I still may have a little problem with statistics.

According to CDC - Influenza deaths 2018-2019 - 34,200 deaths
According to CDC - influenza deaths 2019-2020 - 22,000 deaths.

Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC
Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2019–2020 Influenza Season | CDC

“So, hospitals get an extra $13,000 if they diagnose a death as COVID-19,” a widely sharedmeme on Facebook claimed. “And an additional $39,000 if they use a ventilator!” One postof the meme, shared by hundreds, was captioned: “And then we wonder why the numbers of deaths are embellished…”

The figures cited by Jensen generally square with estimated Medicare payments for COVID-19 hospitalizations, based on average Medicare payments for patients with similar diagnoses.

Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count - FactCheck.org

There may be some truth to that and would explain how influenza suddenly dropped and Covid expanded.

There are not exact numbers. But what is notable is how the annual death rate increased dramatically during Covid. these extra deaths can be attributed to Covid. I've heard these conspiracy theories about money and Covid and I'm not sure it's credible. It's not as if hospitals aren't overflowing with patients way outside of the typical numbers.

As a healthy athlete who had Covid I can say it is worse than the flu. What is worse is how Covid affects all the senses. You do lose your taste and smell, but also there is a constantine ringing in your ears, the skin is super sensitive, vision is affected in a weird way. For example the first time I got back on the bike after my Covid was easing up I went for a KOM on Strava. That is a timed effort that is pinged by GPS on devices we have mounted on our bikes. So i was climbing this hill going for the fastest time and about 2/3 the way up it got really steep and my vision got really wacky. Almost as if you have a video camera and shook it as you recorded. I about threw up. I got the KOM but it hurt. And by head was really pounding and vision got blurry.

This aint the flu. And I've had residual lung problems since. My fall race season might be shot. Don't know yet.

 

[Alienistic]

This is exactly right. I am not forced to be vaccinated -- and the bar I enjoy hanging out in is not forced to accept me as a customer if I'm not. What could be simpler?

Thing is -- I honestly thought that nurses and other healthcare workers would actually know better, and be less motivated by idiotic political notions like a supposed coercion.

I would trust a nurse’s medically trained input for their bodies over yours.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is exactly right. I am not forced to be vaccinated -- and the bar I enjoy hanging out in is not forced to accept me as a customer if I'm not. What could be simpler?

Thing is -- I honestly thought that nurses and other healthcare workers would actually know better, and be less motivated by idiotic political notions like a supposed coercion.

Forced means you're told to do something against your will. There wasn't a strong ultimatum to prevent you from choosing to vax. The circumstances are different because you Wanted to get the vaccine. So it's not forced.

In my opinion
In the US it's coercion and propaganda unapologetically. I think a lot of people are coerced to take the vaccine BUT because the ends justify the means people don't see it that way.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

How so, though?

Do insurance companies follow their clients everywhere they go to see if they are eating more hamburgers than usual a week or smoking every day rather than a one month cigarettes'?

No they give them a weight and health check if in doubt.
You. Only need to get close to a smoker to know they are one, they stink.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No they give them a weight and health check if in doubt.
You. Only need to get close to a smoker to know they are one, they stink.

I guess the doctors write they have a history of smoking and go by that. Just as having a preexisting illness. Though it's up to the patient to tell the doctor the intentions behind possible smoking habits.

 

[F1fan]

This was the selling point for both of my in laws to receive their vaccination. Both were relatively healthy and now deceased 1 month and 3 months respectively after receiving their vaccinations. Were they lied to? (Not going to be as bad.) They were hit harder than a ton of bricks, all sorts of organ failures, etc. after testing positive for CV and hospitalized. Everyone’s immune/nervous system is unique.

I can't speak to their cases, I don't know. I'm a healthy athlete who was vaccinated in April and May, yet I was still hit pretty hard. I was working a lot at the time and riding about 150-200 miles a week, so I was tapped out. My immune system was probably lower than usual. Vaccines help the immune system, it doesn't make an immune system work when the body is worn out. A good diet and plenty of rest helps support a good immune system, and that is the best defense against any disease.

Same with my employer. 23 positive cases out of work currently. 21 in which were vaccinated. Yet, the vaccinated are not required to wear masks and they walk around without masks as if they are immune and also don’t spread the virus.

I don't get it. It's like sabotaging the lifeboats of a sinking ship.

 

[F1fan]

I guess the doctors write they have a history of smoking and go by that. Just as having a preexisting illness. Though it's up to the patient yo tell the doctor the intentions behind possible smoking habits.

Addiction to nicotine. That's why cigarette companies used to add the chemical to tobacco to make it more addictive.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The medical staff have delivered babies just fine and provided medical care for all patients for a long time throughout this virus before a vaccine existed.... so what changes now other than simply a “mandate?”

What changed? Staff quit en masse to the point that it's affecting service delivery. Did you read the OP?

 

[Wildswanderer]

There are knowns about how the virus is processed in the body. It takes 3-7 days for Covid to do its thing. That the uncle was sick the day after the event indicates he was already exposed. No one else got sick until 3 or more days later. That's called deduction.

And one person infected 60? C'mon, get real.
Were you all kissing him?
And it can remain dormant without symptoms, so perhaps a lot of you already had it.
You just made my point.
Getting the vaccine doesn't make anyone safe.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I was lucky to not infect my clients since they were very cautious themselves. I quarantined myself until I tested negative. That is what a responsible citizen does. Do you disagree?

If you know you have it, stay home. But we don't quarantine healthy people.
Shutdowns killed countless businesses.

 

[Alienistic]

What changed? Staff quit en masse to the point that it's affecting service delivery. Did you read the OP?

Sure did. Have you?

Unvaccinated medical staff have been on the frontlines delivering babies and caring for patients since the start, long before a vaccine and after a vaccine.... so what changed other than a mandate? Do you prefer them continuing to do this unvaccinated or prefer them being denied their careers as well as having very short staffed hospitals? They are part of the unvaccinated you refer to in reconsidering your position. The unvaccinated staff would fit your criteria that would not deserve any medical care while without bias themselves have been the ones taking care of delivering babies and treating patients.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I would trust a nurse’s medically trained input for their bodies over yours.

Good for you. And I will take a doctor's diagnosis over that of a nurse (if the doctor is trained in the applicable field). Further, I will take the work of thousands in the sciences, and their exhaustive testing, over the doubts of the doubtful.

Know what? They could all be wrong. But then I ask myself, "how would I rank the odds?"

The odds, by the way, right now, is that the unvaccinated are 10 times more likely to require hospitalization and 11 times more likely to die. Those odds are based on a little something called "observation of the data." Not much interested in that on the conspiratorial web, I'm afraid, but I go with the data, not the web, for my assessment of the odds.

Others may do as they please, of course. And I truly wish them well -- even if I know the odds are against.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Forced means you're told to do something against your will. There wasn't a strong ultimatum to prevent you from choosing to vax. The circumstances are different because you Wanted to get the vaccine. So it's not forced.

In my opinion
In the US it's coercion and propaganda unapologetically. I think a lot of people are coerced to take the vaccine BUT because the ends justify the means people don't see it that way.

And I think you're wrong. I'm not "forced" to do what my job requires of me -- I can resign, or I can recognize that by choosing not to do so, I can be dismissed. I do indeed have a choice. Because in the end, even if I'm no longer employed, I did not do what I did not want to do.

I just had to accept the consequence. Exactly if I decided to stick my hand in the fire.

 

[Alienistic]

Good for you. And I will take a doctor's diagnosis over that of a nurse (if the doctor is trained in the applicable field). Further, I will take the work of thousands in the sciences, and their exhaustive testing, over the doubts of the doubtful.

Know what? They could all be wrong. But then I ask myself, "how would I rank the odds?"

The odds, by the way, right now, is that the unvaccinated are 10 times more likely to require hospitalization and 11 times more likely to die. Those odds are based on a little something called "observation of the data." Not much interested in that on the conspiratorial web, I'm afraid, but I go with the data, not the web, for my assessment of the odds.

Others may do as they please, of course. And I truly wish them well -- even if I know the odds are against.

The problem may be that you assume that you’re omniscient as are doctors and everyone else that assume they know what’s best for every individual and that the reasons some medical staff aren’t being vaccinated are strictly because of conspiracies and politics. So enlighten me.... how do you know those are the reasons for all of the unvaccinated medical staff to not want a mandated vaccine?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The problem may be that you assume that you’re omniscient as are doctors and everyone else that assume they know what’s best for every individual and that the reasons some medical staff aren’t being vaccinated are strictly because of conspiracies and politics. So enlighten me.... how do you know those are the reasons for all of the unvaccinated medical staff to not want a mandated vaccine?

Sorry, but where on earth did you get the notion that I may assume I (or anyone else) is omniscient? Did I not say "they could all be wrong?" Did I not ask, "how will I rank the odds?" Do those things not suggest that I realize I'm not omniscient, but that I am trying hard to figure out how best to choose?

One thing I do know, however, is that there is an immense amount of demonstrably FALSE information about vaccines being blared all over the internet. And I also know how to look in the medical literature for the real data that tells me about the risks and the efficacy of the vaccines. And how to figure out that they're not going to make me glow, become magnetic, or be host to microchips that allow government to control me. Those are all the things of people who manifestly DO NOT KNOW how to do real research.

 

[Alienistic]

Sorry, but where on earth did you get the notion that I may assume I (or anyone else) is omniscient? Did I not say "they could all be wrong?" Did I not ask, "how will I rank the odds?" Do those things not suggest that I realize I'm not omniscient, but that I am trying hard to figure out how best to choose?

One thing I do know, however, is that there is an immense amount of demonstrably FALSE information about vaccines being blared all over the internet. And I also know how to look in the medical literature for the real data that tells me about the risks and the efficacy of the vaccines. And how to figure out that they're not going to make me glow, become magnetic, or be host to microchips that allow government to control me. Those are all the things of people who manifestly DO NOT KNOW how to do real research.

So far, the reasons you claim for the medical staff not wanting to get vaccinated are because they are either conspiracy theorists or that they are for political reasons. I asked how you know these are the reasons? Provide evidence for each staff member please.

Just as you don’t know if or not some or many doctors are flushing a vaccine down the toilet or sink and giving themselves a Covid ID card and just staying quiet for the exact reasons you are doing. They’d know if they said or spoke anything negatively above a vaccine, their careers would be over and they’d be attacked and bashed, character assassinated.

The statistics will be whatever who is releasing them want them to be. If you trust in them, that is fine for you or anyone who does.