No more babies being delivered at NY hospital

[SkepticThinker]

Not even close. The so called facts change weekly.

Which ones?

 

[viole]

I would suggest that anyone in the field of medicine who does not recognize the value and need for vaccines like we've been administered for many decades now are probably better off in a field outside of medicine.

The vast majority of Americans have been vaccinated before and I never heard so much whining and whimpering as we've seen with this one. So what's different this time?

Answer: politics.

True, it would be like being an astronomer, but giving more value to astrology. They should really change job.

ciao

- viole

 

[Unveiled Artist]

T no hospital will hire you unless you have your full spread of vaccinations. Medical personnel also have to get vaccinated against hepatitis B which the public generally does not get vaccinated against. Adding in Covid is just another in a long line of mandatory vaccinations for health professionals.
Just like your kid cannot go to public school without presenting his full vaccination record. No vaccinations = you can homeschool ….. but no public school.
This has been true for many years

I didn't say hiring, I asked if there were other vaccines government forced medical professionals to take.

These nurses already held their positions before the pandemic and vaccines came about so the comment is irrelevant.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I honestly don't see how medical exemption plays in this, though. I also don't see how its misinformation or not accepting the facts that plays into people's healthcare choices. If anything, the facts made them choose what's best for their health being and others.

A little off track:

Why are medically exempt people excluded from getting the vaccine when both exempt and non exempt can spread the virus?

What about the choice to not take the vaccine make the non-exempt much more at risk than an exempt unvaccinated person?

If it were about the spread of the disease more than pushing people to get the vaccine, I'd hope there would be some studies on relieving the exempt so everyone can take it.

I honestly have no idea why you keep harping on the medically exempt.

They cannot get the vaccine because it could actually kill them.
That's why they are exempt.
This is why achieving herd immunity is important, because it protects them as well.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I honestly have no idea why you keep harping on the medically exempt.

They cannot get the vaccine because it could actually kill them.
That's why they are exempt.
This is why achieving herd immunity is important, because it protects them as well.

The vaccinated argument is that the unvaccinated are putting other people at risk of getting COVID. They must get the vaccine. They get upset for those who choose not to. ALL unvaccinated people can spread the disease.

So why is there more emphasis on people's choices rather than, for example, the government and experts trying to find ways the exempt can take the vaccine as well?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It assumes that that smoker's cig. breath will harm others in second hand smoke

Second hand smoke does cause harm to others, as well as stink up the air and the clothes of nonsmokers.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The vaccinated argument is that the unvaccinated are putting other people at risk of getting COVID. They must get the vaccine. They get upset for those who choose not to. ALL unvaccinated people can spread the disease.

So why is there more emphasis on people's choices rather than, for example, the government and experts trying to find ways the exempt can take the vaccine as well?

One group legitimately cannot be vaccinated due to health concerns.
The other, the vast and huge majority of the unvaccinated, can be but choose not to.
That's why.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We'll see, won't we.

Some people will see this as a result of imposing vaccines. I see it as a result of refusing vaccines during a pandemic in which others have an interest in seeing hospital nurses vaccinated, and I'll bet that the majority of vaccinated people see it that way as well.

The job requirement for hospital nursing just changed. It now includes a COVID vaccine. Previously, it was limited to things like passing nursing school, being accredited in nursing, or being on time to work and coming clean and sober.

People that can't do these things, and those who can't or won't adapt to change get phased out. They're not only an increased danger to themselves and their families, but to their patients and even their employers. You don't want to deal with the lawsuits that arise because somebody caught COVID in a hospital that permitted its staff to be unvaccinated.



What do you think? I'd say a better question is who do you hold responsible. It's a rhetorical question, since we already know the answer, or should if we are in touch with popular opinion. I assure you that there are very few vaccinated people blaming vaccine mandates for hospitals in crisis. That might be useful for antivaxxers to know before holding out stories like this as evidence that vaccine mandates are harming them. They don't blame who many antivaxxers would like to see blamed, those promoting or requiring vaccines, but rather, those that make it necessary to let them go by refusing them.

You probably haven't seen more than a tip of the antipathy for antivaxxers iceberg, because you probably don't frequent the sites that I do. I assure you that if you went to these places with your present post, you would see most comments supporting mandates for nurses and the willingness to let them go if they prefer to refuse them. You would also find comments supporting the nurses refusal to get a vaccine as well as condemnation of the requirement, but they'll be from other unvaccinated people.

Not surprisingly, there are almost no provaxxers that want unvaccinated nurses working in hospitals, and almost no antivaxxers expressing support that unvaccinated nurses should lose their jobs. It really is an "whose ox was gored" issue, which means that a given event will be seen differently depending on the degree to which the viewer’s self-interest is involved. People that don't want a vaccine will call mandates government overreach, and the rest will find the mandates appropriate and helpful.



Their nature? You might have thought that accepting medical consensus was their nature. I don't consider those people to be nurses any longer, just as you might not consider any of your flock who are in serious conflict with the basic teachings of your religion a Christian in good standing. A nurse who refuses a vaccine isn't much different from a Catholic who refuses communion or denies the divinity of Christ. You can only go so far before you are outside acceptable parameters of the group you self-identify with.

"The Overton window is the range of policies politically acceptable to the mainstream population at a given time. It is also known as the window of discourse." We can generalize this to other areas besides politics, including attitudes on vaccination and religious status. You can be too far from mainstream opinion to be though of by them as one of them. I think that some of these insurrectionists may be discovering that most others don't consider them either patriots or even American philosophically. They're so right wing that they fell off the bird, where wingspan is metaphor for the Overton window.



The people that could be convinced to become vaccinated by the science got their vaccines. Those that could be inspired by a sense of community responsibility got theirs. Those that don't want to be excluded from public places that require proof of vaccination got theirs. Those who were afraid to get and give COVID to loved ones got theirs. Those who could be persuaded by a beer, baseball tickets, or a cash reward got theirs. To think that those who remained unvaccinated could be brought into the fold with less peer pressure is to ignore the fact that they were not willing to vaccinated before the nation began applying pressure.

Those that could be convinced by peer pressure got theirs. Those that could be convinced because they thought that losing their jobs was bad for themselves and their families have had theirs. Those that needed to see death from COVID up close to be convinced got theirs.

What's left are people that won't be vaccinated until somebody hold them down like a two-year old and injects them. And these people are often heard to saying, get off my back, you're making me more recalcitrant, as if that were possible.



Do you really believe that? Do you believe that there are healthcare workers who were ready to roll up their sleeves, but changed their minds when others supported that choice because they interpreted it as pressure and a good reason to refuse the vaccine? It's like saying that I was ready to never go out drunk driving until I learned that there was pressure being applied to drunk drivers, so I became one. It's not credible. We wouldn't accept that explanation, either.

There are really only two reasons why people who have no medical contraindication to vaccine refuse them. They either feel social pressure from the tribe they identify with and wear their unvaccinated status like they wear red caps, or they are just afraid.

People give a multitude of reasons for refusing vaccination, such as refusing because they were pressured to get a vaccine, but that's simply not credible as outlined. Many said that they were waiting for FDA approval, but that's clearly incorrect, too, as these people aren't moved by the advice of scientists. Some said that their reason was that the vaccine is experimental, but then these same people took Regeneron or ivermectin when neither was an established therapy. It's not hard to understand what their true motivations are, and that they are not what they claim them to be. Apparently, for about 10% of the antivaxxers, it's not the vaccine they're afraid of - it's the needle. Many people of color simply fear white man's medicine. But how many will feel the need to say that they have some other more rational reason, such as waiting to see how others do, when they aren't even looking.

It really is time to stop listening to these people as they dither endlessly, as they promise to make rational decisions just as soon as they have enough data to do so, and recognize that nothing will convince them to comply except seeing somebody close die of COVID, or them getting tired of being excluded from jobs and social opportunities. I expect most of these nurses to eventually succumb to the pressure of being unemployable as nurses if not vaccinated. They'll have trouble finding jobs that pay as well if that is their only professional skill, and if they are faced with being unable to provide for their families and children, or having to give up braces and private school for their kids (or a roof), will finally relent. Those that don't will remain outside of professional nursing.

I don't "think" nurses are upset about preventive measures such as vaccines and staying at home when sick when it comes to their jobs. It has more to do with the relationship employees have with their job, the push to get the vaccine (not a soft push), and other actions that should not be excused "because it's a pandemic." The context isn't about the vaccine as vaccinated people think.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's amazing on how people don't trust health workers. Just politically bought hacks like Fauci.

It depends upon the kind of health worker.
Your average nurse or doctor isn't trained in immunology,
virology, or most importantly...in epidemiology. Fauci is
indeed in a political position. But I don't rely upon him.
Try info from one of the top public health schools in the
country...Johns Hopkins.
Home - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
They're more trustworthy than radio talk show guests
or the clerk selling you Zimecterin (aka Ivermectin) at
your local Tractor Supply.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I wonder if there is more involved than just being vaccinated. I saw in testimony video of nurses leaving because of the pressure and atmosphere of where they work not so much the vaccine in and of itself. If people weren't pressured, there'd probably be more compliance.

The pandemic has left medical facilities overstressed and for some this may be simply a good excuse to quit. Unfortunately many medical staff are underpaid. Nurses and nurse aids especially are not paid a very good salary. Right now there are jobs elsewhere. This may be more of an economic problem, a case of the wages not meeting the workload, more than a vaccine issue.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Not even close. The so called facts change weekly.

Actually I’m spot on, and I showed…
Oh wait! You must believe tRump and Faux Noose. Ha Ha!!


Never mind.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Actually I’m spot on, and I showed…
Oh wait! You must believe tRump and Faux Noose. Ha Ha!!


Never mind.

You mean fauci? The King of changing " facts"!

 

[Wildswanderer]

If you're vaccinated, masked and 6 feet away from everyone, the chances of spreading it are pretty low

So just never go around people again as long as covid exists and let others make their own decisions. Problem solved.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You mean fauci? The King of changing " facts"!

Maybe stop getting your "information" from internet memes.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So just never go around people again as long as covid exists and let others make their own decisions. Problem solved.

Boy, you really have a knack for not being able to process more than one sentence at a time.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Second hand smoke does cause harm to others, as well as stink up the air and the clothes of nonsmokers.

If they're not on top of each other there's no problem.

The problem is thinking because you're in the same room as a smoker and he doesn't have a nicotine patch you're in danger of second hand smoke.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

One group legitimately cannot be vaccinated due to health concerns.
The other, the vast and huge majority of the unvaccinated, can be but choose not to.
That's why.

The post said they both can spread the virus... COVID doesn't care about exemptions.

If it's about the spread, why it gov work on vaccine ingredients that say don't cause allergetic reaction?

It's about the spread not people's choices. What the solution?

 

[F1fan]

It's running it's course regardless.

It's running its course because there are too many not willing to cooperate with society, and the result is more illnesses, more costs to healthcare and to the economy, more deaths. Is this OK with you?

Vaccine mandates are going to change anything, except for the people who develop other problems because of the shot.

Scare mongering. Your claim here has no basis in fact. There are very few side effects from the vaccines. There are very serious consequences of letting a virus run rampant through a nation.

Let's note that to have it your way the virus may be an ongoing problem. People could get sick several times a year, that means losing a month of work and income. And for those who are vulnerable well it's just a matter of time before Covid catches up to them because there are too many who just don't care, and are willing to let our civilization be no better than animals in the wild.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The post said they both can spread the virus... COVID doesn't care about exemptions.

If it's about the spread, why it gov work on vaccine ingredients that say don't cause allergetic reaction?

It's about the spread not people's choices. What the solution?

It's a very basic fact of medicine that no treatment is free of potential side effects.

If they're not on top of each other there's no problem.

The problem is thinking because you're in the same room as a smoker and he doesn't have a nicotine patch you're in danger of second hand smoke.

If someone lights up those in the same room are at risk. That's a poor analogy.

 

[Heyo]

So just never go around people again as long as covid exists and let others make their own decisions. Problem solved.

That is good advice - for everyone. If a business or agency requires masks or proof of vaccination, don't ***** around. Simply stay home "and let others make their own decisions. Problem solved."