Debate the Logic of a World Order.

[TransmutingSoul]

God created the earth to be inhabited forever.

“The righteous will possess the earth, and they will live forever on it.”—Psalm 37:29.

“God has established the earth on its foundations; it will not be moved from its place forever and ever.”—Psalm 104:5.

“The earth remains forever.”—Ecclesiastes 1:4.

I do agree the earth will remain, but we must also consider there are more passages in the Bible that offer greater meditation, such as this one.

Isaiah 24:20 "The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again."

Just as heaven can be the Word of God, when we turn away from it to an earthly understanding, then we can view these passages in a different light, they can be a material metephor for greater spiritual truths.

Also many passages in scripture says God takes of what people own and gives to others, another metaphor for finding the New Name that Jesus Christ talks about.

Regards Tony

 

[Kooky]

I personally think that trying to unite humanity under a centralized faith, polity, culture, language... anything is not only an exercise in futility, I'm not even sure whether such a thing would be desirable in the first place. Part of what I find great about human culture and human civilization as a whole is its diversity of ideas, lifestyles, beliefs etc. It can certainly be a detriment in many cases, and often lead to conflict.

But I believe that we might achieve something greater if we manage to square the circle of creating peace and harmony between the many different groups and individuals that make up humankind, while maintaining our diversity and individualism.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I personally think that trying to unite humanity under a centralized faith, polity, culture, language... anything is not only an exercise in futility, I'm not even sure whether such a thing would be desirable in the first place. Part of what I find great about human culture and human civilization as a whole is its diversity of ideas, lifestyles, beliefs etc. It can certainly be a detriment in many cases, and often lead to conflict.

But I believe that we might achieve something greater if we manage to square the circle of creating peace and harmony between the many different groups and individuals that make up humankind, while maintaining our diversity and individualism.

The path to achieve it will be by discussions and It will have to be a unity in our diversity. The process will have to ask for some compromises, as there must be some compromise made, when the world chooses to work together.

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

The self human advice said once when DNA was one human as first human. Human advice was the same heard advice for everyone.

That status is in human memory.

As we lost being mutual in understanding and agreement then particular humans gain better advice than others. By chosen applied want of human spirituality.

It was practiced.

Have always wanted by spiritual observation human life to share that advice. Bringing to human attention why everyone at the same time no longer lived mutually spiritual. We all Don't get the same advice yet needed to hear the advice.

So teachers say listen to my advice don't idolise my own being as the information is important for all of us.

Yet when we see destruction of everything a human never wanted to observe life becomes difficult. It is difficult not to imply why someone can be better informed.

Why the fall of man in satanic science was chosen topic and subject...God the earth is not a design or a machine or a machine reaction designer...said man's fall and loss of spirituality was a man self purpose. Why human balances changed as he chose against God.

Why it was taught as it was known to be true.

The history human wisdom proves in information the reason of changed human mutual family was taught. A cause of radiation fallout.

That one same cause is the same today in life as it had been in human ancient technology the same as when all life had been destroyed. One status human chosen against survival.

A biological medical review said both DNA and consciousness was mutually changed in the same cause. As one state chosen against spiritual health and consciousness.

Listing observed human changes that said it had been proven real. Humans never evil gained changed conscious motivation. They changed self human body presence. Biology.

The reason explanation and medical understanding were taught in a subject about earth and humans living on earth.

The subject theism proved that coercion about nothing allowed human coercion to be practiced. As it gave a status in human life that was false.

Pretending to be a super intellect was a preached human coercion. Which we are proven to have been coerced by.

As to coerce an innocent consciousness you first have to own a coercive subject entailing that others did not know how superiority existed.

When rationally it never had existed.

The planet body never first never owned a speaking voice. Image recorded of earths huge massive reaction to own a state to record was caused in mass.

Men in science observed that state and began detailing it with human spoken words with intention.

Image the state of equalled mass already removed. So nothing actually owned image. And creation still existing owned why image had formed.

Man proved he then reacted mass and attacked his natural life that then included why recorded bio image and voice was introduced by his design the machine.

We since have never owned a portion of life existing. As science had caused it.

Since that chosen moment humans have lived separated and confused by body type and language spoken. Just as we taught.

We taught observed science causes as human observation of causes is first correct.

Science had never been correct as it was chosen only by humans.

 

[Truthseeker]

That looks like the "New Normal" our leaders enforce on the world now

It does? That's news to me.

That proves that it's not the "New Normal" they try to impose on us now. Glad to know that. Big relieve, better times ahead

I don't think Tony and I disagree. I don't think you understood me. What can I say to clear this up? What don't you understand?

 

[Truthseeker]

Politics is synonymous with self interest partisanship and control over the population.
It no longer even pretends to serve the interest of the people.

Think how much more ineffective, self serving and corrupt would a World government be.

An answer. Do away with political parties. Do away with campaigning and promises they can't or won't keep. Then there will be no donations that corrupt them. The Baha'is offer that example to the world.

 

[Truthseeker]

But I believe that we might achieve something greater if we manage to square the circle of creating peace and harmony between the many different groups and individuals that make up humankind, while maintaining our diversity and individualism.

I agree wholeheartedly!

 

[CG Didymus]

Bahai authority has not been known for rushing to assist the poor and homeless, CGD. In 1976 a homeless family asked the Bahai HQ (UK) at Rutland Gate, 'Can any Bahais give temporary accommodation to a couple and two children, or just a mother and two children?' The UK Secretary replied, 'We don't fund homeless!'
The couple replied, 'We don't need funding, only some urgent temporary accommodation.'
The Secretary replied ,'We don't give out cash.'

..... Locked in to some mammon based idea about not giving out money when the request was for any possible temporary accommodation.

If the Bahai Secretary (boss?) had just replied ,'I'll put the word out'. .... that would have been enough.

But he was gripping so tight to 'money', so hard, he never heard the question.

Yeah, there's that Jesus quote where it says that we help the most needy it's like we've done to him. As if he was that needy person. But what are people and Baha'is to do? If you help or give money or accommodations to one family, there going to be a hundred more that come seeking help. Yet, that's kind of what the Baha'i Faith expects of us... to help each other... even the poorest and most in need. So it really makes me wonder... Love thy neighbor as thyself kind of religious talk has been around a long time... But will it ever become the norm?

 

[CG Didymus]

The idea is that the world will get so bad because of resistance to an effective world order that will have the enforcement and rules to do away with war and principles to make decisions on things on things like climate change that affect everybody alike that momentum will be created to have such an order. It will be demanded from the leaders.

We can't even agree in the U.S. on doing what's best for the whole of humanity. One president abolishes laws that are aimed at slowing pollution, because they cost people jobs... like coal miners. The next president puts them right back in place. People don't all agree on what's best. I wouldn't doubt that people could start a war over doing away with war. But I do think, especially in the U.S., a war could start over too much talk about getting rid of capitalism and introducing things that sound way too close to socialism.

 

[CG Didymus]

I like it when I see similarities between "different" groups. Unity in diversity. Where opportunity opens

I'm the "half full glass" kind of person

I always wondered about that... How full was the glass before you saw that it was half full? Was it more than half or less than half?

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. the advice was given in talks before the first world war and the talks were given in America. The league of Nations was built. On knowledge of these talks, ..

Do you mean that there would not have been any League of Nations or United Nations (although they have been proved absolutely useless and a drain on international contributions) if it was not advised by Abdul Baha?

It becomes a necessity, for justice and fairness sake, to hold the world accountable in virtue and morals, which snake oil sellers would flee from, not embrace.

Snake-oil sellers are first to embrace any falsehood. Citing virtues and morals is necessary for them to sell their merchandise, to prove themself to be 'holier than thou'. That is how people have been fooled in all history.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you mean that there would not have been any League of Nations or United Nations (altough they have been proved absolutely useless and a drain on international constributions) if it was not advised by Bahaollah or Abdul Baha? BTW, who exactly said that?

No I am saying they would not have existed, it is offered that if they had implemented the full list of requirements, then the league of Nations and later on the United Nations would have been able to implement the change the world needed.

Thus that should be the goal the Nations build the reform needed with the UN, right now would be good, that is be set the UN up with the mandate that it does speak for all Nations and all decisions and resolutions shall be enacted.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

God created the earth to be inhabited forever.
“God has established the earth on its foundations; it will not be moved from its place forever and ever.” - Psalm 104:5.
“The earth remains forever.” - Ecclesiastes 1:4.

Unfortunately, that is scientifically incorrect. That is science of an age 2,000 years ago. By now, we know better. Earth will not be inhabited for all its life.

"Ecclesiastes was not accurate when he stated that “there is nothing new under the sun.” In about a billion years the sun will brighten up so much that it will boil off Earth’s oceans." What Will We Do When the Sun Gets Too Hot for Earth’s Survival? (Scientific American)

Sometime in 4-5 billion years "It is calculated that the Sun will become sufficiently large to engulf the current orbits of Mercury and Venus." (Sun - Wikipedia). The sun will first change into a 'red giant' and then into a 'while dwarf'.

"The Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies are expected to collide in around 4-5 billion years, merging to form a giant elliptical galaxy or a large lenticular galaxy." Andromeda Galaxy - Wikipedia

 

[Aupmanyav]

An answer. Do away with political parties. Do away with campaigning and promises they can't or won't keep. Then there will be no donations that corrupt them. The Baha'is offer that example to the world.

That is a silly statement. Then from where the rulers of various countries descend? Don't Bahais have donations? With what money they build their temples? Or do they pluck out money from the trees in Bahai Garden in Haifa?

Thus that should be the goal the Nations build the reform needed with the UN, right now would be good, that is be set the UN up with the mandate that it does speak for all Nations and all decisions and resolutions shall be enacted.

If five permanent members of the security council hardly ever agree on all things, how do you think all the 193 nations of the United Nation will ever agree on all things? What kind of virtual world do you live in?

 

[Truthseeker]

Don't Bahais have donations?

We do have donations, but only Baha'is can donate. This frees from obligations from donors from other sources.

 

[Truthseeker]

If five permanent members of the security council hardly ever agree on all things, how do you think all the 193 nations of the United Nation will ever agree on all things? What kind of virtual world do you live in?

On the security council, only one vote cans whatever they want to do. We propose an assembly that represents all nations, unlike the security council, and the majority of votes wins the day, just like democracy should be.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Don't Bahais have donations? With what money they build their temples? Or do they pluck out money from the trees in Bahai Garden in Haifa?

Only Baha'i can contribute to the Baha'i fund that build and maintain infrastructure.

We pluck it from out income.

There are some tax deductions for some funds, depending on the law of the country the donations are received, education facilities mostly from memory, have not looked at this for a while.

A world Government would be funded by the Nation's and my guess is the details of that would be sorted by the wealth of each nation, maybe a percentage,who knows, great financial minds will work that out.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If five permanent members of the security council hardly ever agree on all things, how do you think all the 193 nations of the United Nation will ever agree on all things? What kind of virtual world do you live in?

I see there will be amount of votes allowed per Nation. I see the minority Nations will have a higher percentage allowed to give them a fair voice.

I bet there is a lot of people that want to vote that can not on the current UN set up, could be wrong?

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

Yeah, there's that Jesus quote where it says that we help the most needy it's like we've done to him. As if he was that needy person. But what are people and Baha'is to do? If you help or give money or accommodations to one family, there going to be a hundred more that come seeking help. Yet, that's kind of what the Baha'i Faith expects of us... to help each other... even the poorest and most in need. So it really makes me wonder...

That's how many need help.......... not hundreds, nor thousands, but millions.

Love thy neighbor as thyself kind of religious talk has been around a long time... But will it ever become the norm?

It's happening, but too slowly.
Where I live nearly everybody can get clothes, warmth and food. Now they all need a monthly basic income, a slightly better version of benefits. Everybody points to the cheats, scroungers and layabouts but I also think of the fat cat tax evaders and criminals, whose funds could pay for mostly everything.

But our governments do need to stop playing their cops-n-robbers games all round the world.

 

[Truthseeker]

I see there will be amount of votes allowed per Nation. I see the minority Nations will have a higher percentage allowed to give them a fair voice.

I bet there is a lot of people that want to vote that can not on the current UN set up, could be wrong?

Regards Tony

Oy, yes, I forgot, the number of votes per nation ideally should be proportionate to the number of people in nation. That's ideally proposed, but it could turn out differently in practice, like it did in the US. The House of Representatives has the number of delegates proportional to the population of that state, but the Senate has two person state. That was a difficult compromise between populous states and smaller states. It almost didn't get ratified.