Where Did This Belief Come From?

[Hockeycowboy]

I see your point...and my statement was somewhat of a non-sequitur, I guess.

How about 1 Corinthians 1:10, where Paul said for all Christians to “speak in agreement,” and have “unity of mind”?
For “agreement“ and “unity” to be manifest, it would have all come from one source, I.e., God’s Word described at 2 Timothy 3:16.

And Jesus did not alter Jewish Scriptures; if anything, he expanded on it. He stated he “came, not to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.” It’s evident that even his disciples did not fully discern what Jesus meant about some aspects of his teachings, like the Kingdom; just read Acts 1:6-8.

As to whether what we have now, comprising the Greek Scriptures (NT), is part of God’s Word.....when a proper interpretation is applied, it’s completely in harmony with the Tanakh.
Are we not to expect that Jehovah/Yahweh has the power to control what makes up His Word?
NON-SEQUITUR FOLLOWING *sorry, I have to do it *:
Unfortunately, Christendom has muddied even clear truths about who God is....they worship a different god than the Jewish / Israelite God, who is Yahweh. They claim Jesus is God, part of a trinity.

But if Jesus is their God, why don’t they obey him?
(As Paul said @ Titus 1:16, there would be those who would “disown (God) by their works.” )
For instance, Jesus taught to “love your enemy.”
Not only does most of Christendom ignore this, they even approve of killing their brothers! (If the geography is wrong.) They’ve worked “lawlessness.” — Matthew 7:21-23.

But really, all of this evidence doesn’t condemn the Bible.... only the leaders of Christendom, who claim to follow it.

The sheep have been misled... and fleeced!

 

[InChrist]

Most of the scripture makes no claim to being God's word, such a claim is like Sola Scriptura itself, outside the bounds of the scriptures to make.


The belief about which writings constitute the Bible. Not found in the Bible.

I believe the Bible is God’s revealed Word to humanity and Jesus verifies the importance of living and being sustained by God’s words, referring to the scriptures ( Matthew 4:4; Luke 4:4). The scriptures include passages stating they are God’s Word ...
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work”
(2 Timothy 3:15-17), as well as demonstrating through both internal and external evidences that the Bible is truly God’s Word.

Is the Bible truly God’s Word? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Left Coast]

Okay, suppose it is a reliable source. If so, it would not present ideas or doctrines that are contrary to those of Bible if the biblical scriptures are God’s authoritative revelation to humanity.

But the Bible itself doesn't even say this about all the books therein. Again, that's something the text doesn't say that you bring to the text before you ever crack it open.

 

[rational experiences]

The first subject is human discussed.

Is human equality.

Equality shared in the same holy water heavenly state where humans depend on nature's presence oxygenation.

Bible said garden nature existed. So did man human and woman human.

As pre theory to that circumstance is fake as a human discussion.
O earth existed.
Heavens existed for a human to quote God terms.

Stone.
Stone sealed.
Stone fused.

Sion.
Fusion.
Fission.

Sion holy as God is not a man the status holy is Sion. Discussing fusion by his words human men stated. To then knowingly blame his brothers hurt for agreeing to fission.

Maths false cross to add when you never owned mass. +

Reason without owning God in science all products are naturally earth bound. So he + man using cross added then minused what God was not applying.

Earths fission.

Fish in fission he said took terrestrial magnetism of God as symbol H into extra. ET he now states. Man's scientist taught in science topic of mans advice.

Science of man did it.

I caused a satanic conjuring of evil spirit gas burning events. Evolution as cooled gases disappeared and evil emerged. As it attacked all things.

I never owned first gases falling out burning to ground. Fall of man nuclear fallout.

So spirits unknown manifested.

The attack ended with the image of a man in the clouds. Designer.

Across the ground zero spatial plane of gods body earth and it's heavens I saw vision of brother designer of science attack his brother in every country where the science temple was using man's pyramid technology.

A circuit attack. Man's image involved.

As it was visionary asides from reactive.

So after my brain prickling burn fall out advice I heard my man god recorded voice tell me my calculus back by words.

So I write down the words. As first I used natural words without calculus. Numbers in words owning letters I personally added in from hearing the story reaction outcome personal of human to describe my intentions.

I proved by numbers not stories as numbers are my calculus that science had caused life's sacrifice. Words secondary false visionary advice. Phenomena I caused.

So I said God in natural gas spirit had chosen who it attacked as I owned no control over natural mass.

To practice human chosen science.

In medical advice I stated humans who unnaturally hear voices outside of self have been brain damaged.

Only by gases burning passing through their human bodies.

By human designer the spirit of man seen attacking humans. As his visionary caused effect. The designer of the attack.

What I learnt in my brother's Ai machine status. Designer of it. Controller by new thinking of controlling ordering machines. Using machines.

As every statement is said by humans for humans as humans. As science.

To coerce a higher power told me.

Was the higher power man? No.

Natural always own the higher power that changed. Man told man in science about power in creation.
Creation owned all of its highest states as O earth existed first owning heavens that owned presence garden nature before man woman.

All highest forms first present.

Man committed sin of science was evicted from origins highest forms.

A self confession of man in science changing God.

If a human says a speaking God as a man voice the memory is human as man encoded speaking voice of man in science.

You cannot hear God if you said a science thesis God speaking words into creation created creation as you the hearer hearing life did not exist. Nor did any supportive value to own a voice using a voice exist to communicate.

As we hear other voice in and via heavenly recording states. Heavens being present.

If memory human says I today believe a human inside a radiation UFO mass was an alien first it is destroyed human memory and image.

Reason last human life did not gain atmospheric records died in alien invasion UFO mass.

When atmosphere cooled satanic man and woman images emerged as memory.

Dinosaurs as image seen today as proof attacked life left image in clouds.

Modern human attack by smaller population mass only caused small imaged recording where cross sacrificed images above the mount are witnessed today. Of man science designer.

Mount Ain in science Hebrew sin meant zero.

Mount with cross of man sacrificed by science was a criminal murder X three objections to life existing by scientists who denied it. Seen in cloud images as the evidence real.

Ain gone term cold space zero mount left with cross of sacrifice a human teaching about nuclear science causes. Man chosen.

Why UFO ark eye Ra radiation hit Ararat. Mount Ain holy law broken. So teaching said only the mount not zero was left.

Moses theme was first named as father Jehovah or Jesus. Teaching Moses title as flood in cause was involved. The status. Teaching evil human chosen science effects.

 

[stvdv]

Does the Bible ever say that our beliefs must be written in the Bible? Must we be able to cite chapter and verse that explicitly says what we believe in order to justify that belief?

If you think so, please cite chapter and verse stating this.

And if someone cites such a verse (which is prone to interpretation), I could (if I found it interesting/useful) easily find another verse stating the opposite

 

[halbhh]

Does the Bible ever say that our beliefs must be written in the Bible? Must we be able to cite chapter and verse that explicitly says what we believe in order to justify that belief?

If you think so, please cite chapter and verse stating this.

No, even though being a reader since young I read through, so I can do that, but no, it's not required.

But....consider: without a reference of what is known, then you'd just get opinions only. You'd have no way to know whether or not we are 'commanded' to "love one another" or if it is only a suggestion or just for extra bonus points.

How would you know?

You'd not be able to be sure, without a reference to find out.

 

[Left Coast]

No, even though being a reader since young I read through, so I can do that, but no, it's not required.

But....consider: without a reference of what is known, then you'd just get opinions only. You'd have no way to know whether or not we are 'commanded' to "love one another" or if it is only a suggestion or just for extra bonus points.

How would you know?

You'd not be able to be sure, without a reference to find out.

I agree we need reliable references to verify the accuracy of our understanding of the world. I dispute, though, that the Bible is such a reference, much less that it's the only one we should ever use.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Does the Bible ever say that our beliefs must be written in the Bible? Must we be able to cite chapter and verse that explicitly says what we believe in order to justify that belief?

If you think so, please cite chapter and verse stating this.

No, it never says this. In fact, it says the opposite. In Deuteronomy 17:8-13 it God gives the authority to the Levites and Judges/Rabbis to interpret and make rulings that have real punch behind them -- we are to go neither to the left nor to the right. Indeed those who even question them are to be put to death, per God. So, yeah, that would be something outside of scripture that we are to follow.

 

[Brian2]

"I have applied all this to Apollos and myself for your benefit, brothers and sisters, so that you may learn through us the meaning of the saying, “Nothing beyond what is written,” so that none of you will be puffed up in favor of one against another."

It's not clear in context what "what is written" refers to here, or in what context Paul is endorsing "nothing beyond" it...and again, the New Testament did not exist when this was written.

Yes true.

 

[halbhh]

I agree we need reliable references to verify the accuracy of our understanding of the world. I dispute, though, that the Bible is such a reference, much less that it's the only one we should ever use.

When we have used thousands of various references, it shows we value all sorts of references, yes?

About whether "love one another" is optional for us when we meet God face to face -- or even just meet God face to face in another human being here today or tomorrow.... -- it's a pretty interesting question in a way, yes?

So, of course, I would not want to ignore the great Teacher on the topic.

What if he knows more about it than we do?

 

[InChrist]

But the Bible itself doesn't even say this about all the books therein. Again, that's something the text doesn't say that you bring to the text before you ever crack it open.

I’ll have to disagree with you. If the scriptures, all of them, were inspired by God as He led the human writers, then I consider them to be authoritative and all beliefs of a Christian should be tested against these scriptures.
I’m not sure why you as a non- believer are attempting to say otherwise. It really shouldn’t matter if you don’t believe or accept the Bible in the first place.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Again, the Gospel of John does not say that "the Word of God" = the Bible. That's something you're reading into the text that it never says.

I find Jesus is speaking to his God at John 17:17 so, ' your word ' ( small 'w' ) is Not referring to Jesus but the written word.
Jesus was calling those old Hebrew Scriptures as the truth ( religious truth ).

 

[Left Coast]

I find Jesus is speaking to his God at John 17:17 so, ' your word ' ( small 'w' ) is Not referring to Jesus but the written word.
Jesus was calling those old Hebrew Scriptures as the truth ( religious truth ).

And you're welcome to that opinion, but it isn't anywhere in the actual text of that passage.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And you're welcome to that opinion, but it isn't anywhere in the actual text of that passage.

Jesus answers at John 8:54-55 that he (Jesus) knows Him (God) and observes His 'word' (His saying)
John 14:24 B the ' word ' you are hearing is Not mine (Jesus).
Jesus is speaking at John 15:3 through the ' word ' Jesus spoke to them.
and at John 15:20 to remember the word Jesus said.....
Jesus is speaking about the people of John 17:6 who kept God's word (scripture)
Jesus is the one who gave them God's word according to John 17:14.

 

[Left Coast]

Jesus is the one who gave them God's word according to John 17:14.

This last passage is evidence against the interpretation that "Word" automatically means "the Bible": Jesus didn't give the Jews the Tanakh, the only Scripture they would've known.

Again, you have brought assumptions to the text that are not in the text.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This last passage is evidence against the interpretation that "Word" automatically means "the Bible": Jesus didn't give the Jews the Tanakh, the only Scripture they would.

Yes, when Jesus said God's word is truth at John 17:17 he was speaking about the Hebrew Scriptures.
So, Not automatic as the word 'Bible' but as referring to the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus taught from the old Hebrew Scriptures.

 

[Left Coast]

Yes, when Jesus said God's word is truth at John 17:17 he was speaking about the Hebrew Scriptures.
So, Not automatic as the word 'Bible' but as referring to the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus taught from the old Hebrew Scriptures.

No - again, Jesus did not give them the Tanakh. The Tanakh's writings existed long before Jesus. So again - this is an indication that if Jesus ever actually uttered those words, his "word" there wasn't a reference to the Hebrew Scriptures.

 

[Muffled]

Does the Bible ever say that our beliefs must be written in the Bible? Must we be able to cite chapter and verse that explicitly says what we believe in order to justify that belief?

If you think so, please cite chapter and verse stating this.

I believe Jesus did not champion belief; He championed truth. As far as belief it should be in Him.

John 14:1 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.

 

[Muffled]

If I had to give a try I would pick this one, as it says that "examining the Scriptures" is praiseworthy.

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message (the "good news") with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

If it's the Jehovah's Witnesses you talk about, they usually proselytize in pairs, so if one has lost his chain of argumentation, the other can take over talking you down. When I was a kid, I was really knowledgeable in the Bible. There was a neighbour who would regularly proselytize to my grandma, but since she was alone, it was me who succeeded in the battle of talking her down. She replied "there is Satan speaking". Thinking about it, I think it's an odd notion to believe you have "convinced somebody" just because they run out of counter-arguments or because they are just tired of listening to you.

I believe they are examining to ascertain truth.

 

[Muffled]

I can certainly see why you'd strive to understand a text thoroughly if you considered it authoritative. My point is that the degree of authority granted the Bible by some Christians isn't even contained in the Bible itself.

I believe this is instruction for authority:
Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen to him!”