Where Did This Belief Come From?

[Hockeycowboy]

Does the Bible ever say that our beliefs must be written in the Bible? Must we be able to cite chapter and verse that explicitly says what we believe in order to justify that belief?

If you think so, please cite chapter and verse stating this.

Honestly, no disrespect intended, but if it does, would it make a difference to you?

Wouldn’t you just cite ’circular reasoning’?

For me, I look at the benefits that people have received, from applying Biblical counsel.

Especially from applying the Bible’s counsel on sexual restraint, I.e., enjoying sexual relations within a committed marriage. When also applying the Bible’s guidelines on how family members should love each other.... how would this benefit children, do you think?

They become well-grounded, stable adults, a boon to any society.

It all begins with two people, parents, who love each other....and keep sex between themselves.

Such a lifestyle is unpopular today — deemed too restrictive — but, then, look at the increase in mentally and emotionally unstable individuals that we have now....IMO, a direct result of ignoring the Bible.

I know of no other religious writings that require sex be kept within the marriage arrangement. (Do you?)


I see the wisdom behind it; that’s one reason I believe it’s from God.

Take care, my cousin.

 

[Left Coast]

Honestly, no disrespect intended, but if it does, would it make a difference to you?

Depends what you mean by "make a difference." Would it suddenly make me believe Christianity is true? No. Would it at least make the Christians who think this way more intellectually consistent? Yes.

For me, I look at the benefits that people have received, from applying Biblical counsel.

Especially from applying the Bible’s counsel on sexual restraint, I.e., enjoying sexual relations within a committed marriage. When also applying the Bible’s guidelines on how family members should love each other.... how would this benefit children, do you think?

They become well-grounded, stable adults, a boon to any society.

It all begins with two people, parents, who love each other....and keep sex between themselves.

Such a lifestyle is unpopular today — deemed too restrictive — but, then, look at the increase in mentally and emotionally unstable individuals that we have now....IMO, a direct result of ignoring the Bible.

I know of no other religious writings that require sex be kept within the marriage arrangement. (Do you?)


I see the wisdom behind it; that’s one reason I believe it’s from God.

Take care, my cousin.

This is all a non sequitur to the actual topic so I'm not going to spend time replying to it in detail.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

If it's the Jehovah's Witnesses you talk about, they usually proselytize in pairs, so if one has lost his chain of argumentation, the other can take over talking you down.

We don’t want to talk anyone down.

We look to encourage people and reason with them; but if it’s going to turn into an argument, we will usually leave. —Proverbs 17:14
That wasn’t always the case, but it usually is now.
Take care

 

[crossfire]

This is probably a good thing, because there are a whole lot of dogmas that Christians propagate that have no biblical basis at all, yet many Christians believe these dogmas are actually in the bible.

 

[InChrist]

Either/or.

Okay, thank you.

The Bible is considered by Christians to be God’s Word and revelation to humanity which was given progressively over approximately 1500 years. So if these revealed scriptures are the Word of God, then the doctrines included are the final authority for all matters of faith, belief, and morals.
Jesus stated that...
“Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.”
(Matthew 4:4; Luke 4:4).
If one has trusted Christ as their Savior, then it stands to reason they would be in agreement with Him and test their own beliefs against the biblical scriptures.
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).
What does it mean to test the spirits? | GotQuestions.org

 

[InChrist]

No. What I'm saying is that the belief that our beliefs must be found in the Bible is not a belief that's in the Bible.

Sounds like a rather contradictory and nonsensical idea. Certainly not something Jesus espoused, nor the Apostles who considered the scriptures to be God’s Word and that we (believers anyway) would desire to have our minds and beliefs aligned with God’s truth.

“Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth” John 17:17

 

[Left Coast]

Okay, thank you.

The Bible is considered by Christians to be God’s Word and revelation to humanity which was given progressively over approximately 1500 years. So if these revealed scriptures are the Word of God, then the doctrines included are the final authority for all matters of faith, belief, and morals.

I understand that you believe that. Where does the Bible actually say that? I would encourage you to read through the thread and see what people have cited already, as it wouldn't be any of those. Do you have any others to share?

Jesus stated that...
“Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.”
(Matthew 4:4; Luke 4:4).

Except this verse doesn't say that "word of God" = "Bible."

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).
What does it mean to test the spirits? | GotQuestions.org

But this verse doesn't say that "testing the spirits" means "looking in the Bible." Nor does it say that "testing the spirits" means "all matters of faith, belief, and morals."
And again, at the time this was written, "the Bible" wasn't a thing.

 

[Left Coast]

Sounds like a rather contradictory and nonsensical idea.

I agree. So why do so many Christians hold it?

Certainly not something Jesus espoused, nor the Apostles who considered the scriptures to be God’s Word and that we (believers anyway) would desire to have our minds and beliefs aligned with God’s truth.

“Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth” John 17:17

Again, Jesus does not say that "your word" = the Bible there.

 

[InChrist]

I agree. So why do so many Christians hold it?



Again, Jesus does not say that "your word" = the Bible there.

I meant that “your” idea that beliefs of Christians should not be derived from the Bible is contradictory and nonsensical.
No, Jesus did not say “Your word = the Bible, He lived it though and He used scriptures as Authoritative. I realize at the time He quoted the OT, yet He commissioned the Apostles, including Paul who was inspired to write much of the NT epistles.

 

[Left Coast]

I meant that “your” idea that beliefs of Christians should not be derived from the Bible is contradictory and nonsensical.

Except I didn't say that. If you want me to clarify what I actually said, just ask me.

No, Jesus did not say “Your word = the Bible, He lived it though and He used scriptures as Authoritative.

Viewing the Scriptures that he had as an authority does not mean that all our beliefs, or all Christians' beliefs, must always and only be written in the Bible. Nor does the Bible ever say such a thing.

 

[firedragon]

No. What I'm saying is that the belief that our beliefs must be found in the Bible is not a belief that's in the Bible.

So bottomline is, even the belief that the belief stems from the bible is not biblical.

 

[Left Coast]

So bottomline is, even the belief that the belief stems from the bible is not biblical.

Exactly. It's an incoherent standard.

 

[InChrist]

Except I didn't say that. If you want me to clarify what I actually said, just ask me.

I thought you said this...
”What I'm saying is that the belief that our beliefs must be found in the Bible is not a belief that's in the Bible”, in post # 40.
But you may clarify.

Viewing the Scriptures that he had as an authority does not mean that all our beliefs, or all Christians' beliefs, must always and only be written in the Bible. Nor does the Bible ever say such a thing.

Well, if Jesus viewed the scriptures as God’s Authority, then it is only reasonable that believers in Jesus Christ would also and that those same scriptures would be the source for wisdom and discerning truth with regard to one’s beliefs.
Anyway, possibly you could give a specific example of what you consider a “belief” one may have that is not in the Bible.

 

[Left Coast]

I thought you said this...
”What I'm saying is that the belief that our beliefs must be found in the Bible is not a belief that's in the Bible”, in post # 40.
But you may clarify.

I did say that. Notice that sentence does not say our beliefs should never be found in the Bible.

Well, if Jesus viewed the scriptures as God’s Authority, then it is only reasonable that believers in Jesus Christ would also and that those same scriptures would be the source for wisdom and discerning truth with regard to one’s beliefs.

A source, yes I could see that. The only source? No, I don't see that.

 

[InChrist]

I did say that. Notice that sentence does not say our beliefs should never be found in the Bible.



A source, yes I could see that. The only source? No, I don't see that.

Why not? Suppose another source is not a correct source or a false, deceptive source?

What about an example of a belief from another source? Do you have one?

 

[Left Coast]

Why not? Suppose another source is not a correct source or a false, deceptive source?

Suppose it isn't? Suppose it's a trustworthy, reliable source?

What about an example of a belief from another source? Do you have one?

That'll just bog us down in the specifics of whatever example I pick. First principles gotta be hammered out first.

 

[74x12]

Does the Bible ever say that our beliefs must be written in the Bible? Must we be able to cite chapter and verse that explicitly says what we believe in order to justify that belief?

If you think so, please cite chapter and verse stating this.

It's called "sola scriptura" and I disagree with it. The Bible itself contradicts sola scriptura because it clearly shows how you can receive dreams, visions and new revelations/prophecies from God. However, what I do believe is that a new revelation doesn't contradict an old one. So nothing from God will contradict the scriptures.

 

[firedragon]

Exactly. It's an incoherent standard.

Thus, the Bible doesnt say the Bible is the source of belief? And that should be a standard for an outsider to know that the Bible is not the source of belief.

 

[InChrist]

Suppose it isn't? Suppose it's a trustworthy, reliable source?



That'll just bog us down in the specifics of whatever example I pick. First principles gotta be hammered out first.

Okay, suppose it is a reliable source. If so, it would not present ideas or doctrines that are contrary to those of Bible if the biblical scriptures are God’s authoritative revelation to humanity. I’ve read plenty of books, articles or listened to speakers that express thoughts which line up with the Bible.

If you prefer not to give an example, that’s okay, but it seems like talking in vague generalities can only go so far.

 

[Mister Emu]

The Bible is considered by Christians to be God’s Word and revelation to humanity which was given progressively over approximately 1500 years.

Most of the scripture makes no claim to being God's word, such a claim is like Sola Scriptura itself, outside the bounds of the scriptures to make.

What about an example of a belief from another source? Do you have one?

The belief about which writings constitute the Bible. Not found in the Bible.