Euthanasia

[Clara Tea]

What does your religion or worldview tell you about the practice of euthanasia?

If you select the first or second choice, or favor euthanasia under "other," what do you consider to be a right circumstance?

Kevorkian's assisted suicide is the best solution if someone has a terminal illness. They will die anyway, and they will die soon, and they will die in horrible agony. It is better to peacefully fall asleep and end it all.

It should be up to the individual to decide suicide.

However, some people are insane and suicidal, with no reason to want to die. Some are suicidal due to narcotics. Those people should be considered insane and held for psychological evaluation, and maybe get pills to control suicidal urges.

People tend to cling to life a bit too hard. They think that anyone who tries to kill themself is insane. Actually suicide can be a very rational and well thought out solution.

As a diabetic, I would pass out if I eat a banana split. If I eat two or three, I might die.....what a way to go.

 

[Clara Tea]

I feel like this quickly slides into huge gray areas, so I don't feel like a really cogent and applicable answer can be submitted

Gray mandates discussion.

 

[Clara Tea]

Merriam-Webster defines euthanasia as the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (such as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy.

While assisted suicide certainly qualifies as euthanasia, I'm not sure taking one's own life would qualify.

Karen Ann Quinlan was a brain dead (or almost brain dead) woman who was surviving without assistance from heart or lung machines. She was deprived of water (and food) until she died, because that was considered the most humane way of ending life. I think that it would have been far more human to use lethal injection or lethal gas. There might have been some part of her brain that sensed suffering.

 

[SalixIncendium]

A statement like that, however, really implores you to unpack that further. For example, my youngest brother and I do have a permanent condition, which is the autistic condition. Reality, for both of us, is far more maze-like than it might be for you. In my view, dealing with it seems particularly to hinge on my sovereignty of perspective, as I decide to embrace it more than I decide to be horrified by it. Which I could allow myself to become. But people do live their entire lives with things like autism or schizophrenia etc. and seem to find ways to deal with such things, and sometimes go beyond them to generate productivity or find greater meaning

This is why "sick or injured" is qualified by "hopelessly." If you're dealing with the condition and managing it, it's certainly not hopeless.

I think you might have been conflating "hopelessly" with "incurably."

 

[SalixIncendium]

I find it interesting that you draw the line here as to whether a suicide to ends ones own suffering is euthanasia. It seems that euthanasia requires the permission or participation of someone other than yourself.
Is then suicide permissible or acceptable if it meets the same suffering criteria as euthanasia, or is suicide never permissible?

It appears you're asking my opinion on suicide here. I haven't even offered my opinion on euthanasia as of this post.

But since you ask, in my opinion based upon my worldview, suicide is not permissible.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Perhaps the OP can clearly define what he meant as euthanasia. I would consider assisted suicide to be a form of euthanasia. It was what I was thinking of when I wrote my post.

The dictionary definition offered in post #3 will suffice.

 

[SalixIncendium]

...bored games...

Those don't sound like any fun at all!!

 

[SalixIncendium]

In case anyone is interested in how I voted in my own poll (and I took about 24 hours to contemplate on it before I did), I voted the third option.

I've witnessed death occurring both naturally and through euthanasia under similar circumstances. In the three cases I reflected upon, the individual was terminally ill. I can't explain why in words, but euthanasia felt very wrong to me. After these experiences, I personally would never again make the decision to euthanize another being, or assist one who wants to be euthanized, nor would I make the choice to self-terminate under artificial means.

In my view, pain is inevitable. Suffering is a choice.

 

[Secret Chief]

I notice most of the focus in the thread so far has been on human life, but I'd like to add that, while I feel animal euthanasia is acceptable in some cases, I think people overuse it. I know many people use it when they don't want to be burdened with an aging, expensive, or inconvenient pet and they feel rehoming would be too difficult.

I have a dog that I was asked repetitively "why don't you put that thing down?" She has genetic leg deformities in her hind legs that cause her to look and move a bit off. We did look at surgical options at one point, but it would have taken about a 5th of our yearly income, and the success rate wasn't all that great. It wasn't an option. We ended up getting her another dog to play with to stretch those muscles(she was becoming too sedentary), and that worked great. She moves around like a three legged dog. She is not in pain, and manages just fine on the stairs(we have a lot of them here).

If a person would put her down, it would be because her condition bothers them, not her.

Another example I can remember was a cat we had years back. He was elderly, and had a myriad of health problems. One morning we woke up, and it was clear the cat would not last the day. We thought it would be a matter of hours. We talked about having him euthanized, but my husband had a gut feeling this wasn't the right thing to do. He was my oldest son's best friend in the whole world, and we thought maybe he was hanging on to say good bye(my son was at school when we discovered him). Well, my son got home, and they spent some time together. We left to get dinner, thinking that the cat would have departed by the time we got home. He hadn't. My son set up a "going away party" the cat. They played bored games, and read books, and had snacks(the cat couldn't eat them, of course). Eventually my son fell asleep. Within a few minutes of my son falling asleep, the cat passed on. In my view, it was clear that cat had wanted to hold out for his friend, and spend some time together before he shuffled off. To have euthanized him that morning would have interfered with his rights and wishes.

You demonstrate the dangers in permitting euthanasia. I know of someone who had their cat euthanased that was not at the end of his days. She lined a new one up to have as a replacement several days before she took her cat to the vets to be euthanased (or "killed" as I would term it in this situation). Odd thing is, she's a nurse.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

In my view, pain is inevitable. Suffering is a choice.

This might be a weird tangent to reply with (or maybe not), but I happened to have just read the saga of ragnar lothbrok. I think it's doubtful that ordinary modern people could match the fate-based attitudes toward death in the saga, where oddly, various characters seemed to choose the most painful death, in lieu of even pleasant alternatives. For example, one of ragnar's sons would rather be impaled on a pile of spears, than to marry a beautiful princess. Another son, hvitsverk, willingly chose to be burned on a pile of heads, rather than even consider fleeing his captors. Christian martyrdom themes dovetail well with all this as too, with martyrs like Ignatius seeming to willingly lust for the lion's jaws.

So I think all of this comes in, in a generally diluted form, to inform the modern stoic (the way modern people think of the term) flavor that western culture, at least, seems to keep as bulwark against things like euthanasia. But historically, it appears that bets can be kept with pain and suffering that seem to exceed what reason might allow. Though - sure we need firefighters, and sometimes soldiers, and rescue workers, to keep your statement in mind at all times, and risk common reality for the good. But I don't think that, in the modern context, it is perceived that the common public ought to forgo existential ease, in every mode of being, if they can get within its proximity. If one cannot, and most people probably cannot sustain perpetual ease in all things, are they then to dismiss ease as a virtue?

 

[pearl]

To play this out further, if euthanasia of human beings is acceptable or permissible under certain, specific conditions, is euthanasia permissible without the consent of the individual being euthanized?

Nothing brings home the conflicts of euthanasia as does the case of Terry Schiavo. A young woman in a 'vegetative state' kept alive on a feeding tube. Her husband and legal guardian wished to remove the feeding tube. While her mother, through the courts, both legal and public opinion, begged for her daughter's life. In the end the tube was removed and Terry allowed to die. The Church is opposed to euthanasia as opposed to natural death, but does not require extraordinary measures to prevent natural death. That's why it is so very important to have a legal 'do not resuscitate' order.
Several years ago 'physician assisted suicide', euthanasia, was on the ballot for legalization, it lost, partially due to the possibilities of coercing elders or those in a state of despair that they have become a burden.

 

[GardenLady]

What my religion says and what my world view says are not the same. Also, my view of voluntary assisted suicide is quite different from my view of any circumstance where the euthanasia decision is made by another.

 

[GardenLady]

is euthanasia permissible without the consent of the individual being euthanized?

In my view, no.

 

[JustGeorge]

Those don't sound like any fun at all!!

No, they're not. But they can be easier to handle when you don't want a lot of excitement.

You demonstrate the dangers in permitting euthanasia. I know of someone who had their cat euthanased that was not at the end of his days. She lined a new one up to have as a replacement several days before she took her cat to the vets to be euthanased (or "killed" as I would term it in this situation). Odd thing is, she's a nurse.

I hear a lot of this... some people don't want to deal with old age and illness in their pets, and for whatever reason, euthanizing an inconvenient animal is socially acceptable. My dad killed his cat because she kept peeing in his wife's 'music room'. Why not rehome?

It scares me a bit... last summer, we had a respiratory infection roll through our cat herd. It was really bad. And it was viral, so there was nothing we could do in terms of medication. A few of them took it very poorly, and one was very near death. He had to go into the vet for fluids at one point, and wouldn't drink on his own. Wouldn't eat. Wasted away. I don't think he was fully conscious after awhile... he didn't seem to know anyone was there, or if anyone touched him. Most would have chosen to euthanize him, I think. But my husband and I force fed/forced fluids... took about a week to get him to a point where he was walking around on his own. He went 4 days without peeing... But we didn't give up on him. And he's running around like normal now, all that behind him, reclaiming his place as #1 most problematic cat. (I jokingly asked my husband why he was trying to save him so devotedly, as he always said he was going to kill him. He grinned and said I'm going to bring him back so I can kill him myself!") But most animals in his situation would be put down. How many animals out there get put down over much smaller issues?

That being said, I think there's influence from the outside. There's a lot of pressure for pet owners to 'fix' things. If you can't, then the socially acceptable option is to put the animal down. As I've said, I get a lot of crap for not 'fixing'(I don't mean spaying) my dog. Society doesn't like to see an imperfect pet.

 

[Secret Chief]

cat herd

Does this mean cats can be herded?

 

[JustGeorge]

Does this mean cats can be herded?

Totally.

All you need is a bag of food and your 'kitty call'(or for finicky cats, a can opener). Shake the bag of food and walk with it, talking, and they all follow.

For reasons unknown, a flick of the wrist and a quiet 'get, get, get' disperses.

 

[Secret Chief]

Society doesn't like to see an imperfect pet.

Because people are so perfect.
We trust our vets totally and have only ever agreed to what we all could see was the compassionate thing to do - no more help available, condition can't improve, pain / distress / suffering. In such circumstances I consider it the last act of love and have always felt the right decision - for the cat - was made.

 

[Secret Chief]

Totally.

All you need is a bag of food and your 'kitty call'(or for finicky cats, a can opener). Shake the bag of food and walk with it, talking, and they all follow.

For reasons unknown, a flick of the wrist and a quiet 'get, get, get' disperses.

When our cats want more (greedy!) helpings I show them my bare palms and they understand and walk off (albeit probably in a grump). I was chuffed to see at the big cat sanctuary we stayed at that the keeper did the exact same thing for the likes of lions and tigers

 

[JustGeorge]

Because people are so perfect.
We trust our vets totally and have only ever agreed to what we all could see was the compassionate thing to do - no more help available, condition can't improve, pain / distress / suffering. In such circumstances I consider it the last act of love and have always felt the right decision - for the cat - was made.

When the idea of euthanasia comes up, I always have an imaginary conversation with the animal about it. Is it time? Are they ready to go? Is this what they want? There's no way to know for sure, of course, but when one knows their pet...

The imaginary conversation with my dog went : "Well, you've got a lot of problems. Would you like to make your way off this plane?" Dog: "Problems? What do you mean problems? Sure, I'm ugly and smelly, but so are half the people on this block! Put them down!" Me: "I meant your legs." Dog: "What's wrong with my legs?"

 

[McBell]

It appears you're asking my opinion on suicide here. I haven't even offered my opinion on euthanasia as of this post.

But since you ask, in my opinion based upon my worldview, suicide is not permissible.

So you disagree with the Bible saying that giving up ones life to save another is the greatest thing a person can do?