Euthanasia

[SalixIncendium]

So you disagree with the Bible saying that giving up ones life to save another is the greatest thing a person can do?

I consider giving one’s own life to save another to be sacrifice, not suicide.

 

[McBell]

I consider giving one’s own life to save another to be sacrifice, not suicide.

Yes.
That is a most commonly accepted weasel word fallacy.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yes.
That is a most commonly accepted weasel word fallacy.

Not at all. Suicide and sacrifice are clearly and diametrically opposed to one another. Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, while sacrifice is the ultimate act of selflessness.

 

[Heyo]

Not at all. Suicide and sacrifice are clearly and diametrically opposed to one another. Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, while sacrifice is the ultimate act of selflessness.

What about suicide by cop? You get your death wish fulfilled and the cop gets a recommendation for his bravery. Does that count as sacrifice?

 

[SalixIncendium]

What about suicide by cop? You get your death wish fulfilled and the cop gets a recommendation for his bravery. Does that count as sacrifice?

I'm afraid I don't understand the scenario. Can you please explain this in greater detail?

 

[McBell]

Not at all. Suicide and sacrifice are clearly and diametrically opposed to one another. Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, while sacrifice is the ultimate act of selflessness.

It is classic text book weasel word fallacy.

If you disagree with it, it is suicide and bad.
If you agree with it, it is sacrifice and good.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness,

That's somewhat callous to say.

 

[SalixIncendium]

That's somewhat callous to say.

I don’t think so.

Perhaps it’s just difficult to hear.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don’t think so.

Perhaps it’s just difficult to hear.

Nope. You hear it all the time when people talk about suicide. It's a common thing. It reflects a lack of empathy and understanding of the experience of wanting to kill yourself, and I mean REALLY wanting to kill yourself, perhaps after many years of severe psychological pain and suffering.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Nope. You hear it all the time when people talk about suicide. It's a common thing. It reflects a lack of empathy and understanding of the experience of wanting to kill yourself, and I mean REALLY wanting to kill yourself, perhaps after many years of severe psychological pain and suffering.

No it doesn't. Just because I call an act selfish doesn't mean I don't have empathy for psychological pain. I'm more than willing and happy to help someone deal with that pain. As I said earlier in the thread, pain is inevitable; suffering is a choice.

Suicide is a selfish act because those that perform that act takes little to no consideration on how that act will affect others. It serves no purpose other than escaping this reality, often at others' expense.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

pain is inevitable; suffering is a choice.

That's just not true.

Suicide is a selfish act because those that perform that act takes little to no consideration on how that act will affect others. It serves no purpose other than escaping this reality, often at others' expense.

Yeah, I've heard that. Those that believe that should consider that their motives for feeling that way are also selfish. I do not believe you owe anyone your continued existence in their life, unless of course you are the parent of young children. That sort of possessiveness towards people is certainly selfish in a fashion.

 

[SalixIncendium]

That's just not true.

Do you not have a choice on how to react to pain?

Yeah, I've heard that. Those that believe that should consider that their motives for feeling that way are also selfish. I do not believe you owe anyone your continued existence in their life, unless of course you are the parent of young children. That sort of possessiveness towards people is certainly selfish in a fashion.

This is nothing more than deflection. Calling others selfish for their motives in wanting or needing another does nothing to detract from the selfishness of committing suicide.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do you not have a choice on how to react to pain?

Not necessarily. That's like saying people have a choice as to whether they develop PTSD or not (which is a reaction to trauma). Everyone has a limit. Trauma and abuse can destroy people, and they can develop mental illnesses from it and all this can lead to suicide. Look at how many combat vets kill themselves. There's also things like transsexualism which in of itself can make a person want to kill themselves (and many do).

This is nothing more than deflection. Calling others selfish for their motives in wanting or needing another does nothing to detract from the selfishness of committing suicide.

No, I'm just pointing something out to you. If one is selfish, the other is, too. You also should keep in mind that suicidal people tend to genuinely believe that others will be better off without them, and are sorry for whatever pain it will cause. This is common in suicide notes (of which I've written multiple).

 

[viole]

Not at all. Suicide and sacrifice are clearly and diametrically opposed to one another. Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, while sacrifice is the ultimate act of selflessness.

You could combine them though. Win win sort of situation.

Ciao

- viole

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I would say that when there is little to no chance of recovery from some sort of issue and living has become torture then euthanasia should be an option.

It is interesting that Europe is the most liberal continent when it comes to euthanasia. Both belgium and Netherlands permit euthanasia and assisted dying for non-terminal people. The criteria is extreme suffering.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Not necessarily. That's like saying people have a choice as to whether they develop PTSD or not (which is a reaction to trauma).

So you're saying that there is no choice on how to react to stimuli in the face of a traumatic experience? If that's the case, why doesn't everyone who has such an experience have PTSD?

Everyone has a limit.

And limits vary from person to person. As you indicate here:

Trauma and abuse can destroy people, and they can develop mental illnesses from it and all this can lead to suicide. Look at how many combat vets kill themselves. There's also things like transsexualism which in of itself can make a person want to kill themselves (and many do).

But all of them don't kill themselves, do they?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So you're saying that there is no choice on how to react to stimuli in the face of a traumatic experience? If that's the case, why doesn't everyone who has such an experience have PTSD?



And limits vary from person to person. As you indicate here:


But all of them don't kill themselves, do they?

People as individuals have varying limits for psychological distress before they breakdown. That's due to biology and environmental factors. So not everyone exposed to a traumatic event will develop PTSD as they're not predisposed to.

Honestly, this is sounding like an attempt to blame the victim.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

What does your religion or worldview tell you about the practice of euthanasia?

If you select the first or second choice, or favor euthanasia under "other," what do you consider to be a right circumstance?

I don't believe people should kill themselves - but if they want to die - they should do it themselves.

Don't enlist others to do your dirty work for you.

 

[Heyo]

I don't believe people should kill themselves - but if they want to die - they should do it themselves.

Don't enlist others to do your dirty work for you.

And what about those who are not capable to do it themselves, quadriplegics for example?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

And what about those who are not capable to do it themselves, quadriplegics for example?

I think my original stance still holds..