Have You Been Insulted by Religious People in Front of Everyone's Eyes?

[Revoltingest]

Perhaps if people could be civil, considerate, moral, and ethical, there would be no need for moderation, and moderators wouldn’t be necessary on a forum.

Of course, I’m not saying some people aren’t on RF.

People will be what people will be.
So moderation is useful.
That's not in dispute.
The issue is the standards applied.
They should be coherent & serve the goals.

Hypthetically, in a disagreement, it's better to say "I disagree",
& explain why, than to say "That's a stupid argument."

The above is theoretical, & not about any particular forum.

 

[Vinayaka]

It's complicated. For those who figure insulting the religion is different than insulting the person, consider these two statements:
1) Your religion is stupid.
2) You're stupid for following it.
1 insults the religion, while 2 insults the person. I would suggest that 2 is a corollary to 1. When a person's identity is tied closely to their faith, I don't see much of a difference. The key is to insult neither, and use tact in discussion, even just in sharing your philosophical disagreement.

Of course there are those who get insulted when you simply disagree. Not much we can do about that, other than hope those individuals will some day see through that folly.

 

[Vinayaka]

People will be what people will be.
So moderation is useful.
That's not in dispute.
The issue is the standards applied.
They should be coherent & serve the goals.

Hypthetically, in a disagreement, it's better to say "I disagree",
& explain why, than to say "That's a stupid argument."

The above is theoretical, & not about any particular forum.

I share these insights. So many 'insults' would be avoided by tact.

 

[Revoltingest]

I share these insights. So many 'insults' would be avoided by tact.

The best course in any disagreement....
Stick to the issues.

 

[SalixIncendium]

People will be what people will be.
So moderation is useful.
That's not in dispute.
The issue is the standards applied.
They should be coherent & serve the goals.

Hypthetically, in a disagreement, it's better to say "I disagree",
& explain why, than to say "That's a stupid argument."

The above is theoretical, & not about any particular forum.

While I’m confident you weren’t talking about RF, I can say, setting myself aside, that the staff here does a much better job than other moderation teams I’ve worked with in other fora in putting their own views aside and moderating with impartiality.

We are one of the only forums I’ve seen that has a system of checks and balances by moderating by consensus. And the admin team here does a fine job in hiring a diverse group. If everyone was like me, the forum would be in real trouble...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When I debated in a Christian forum, I became aware of the fact that some people were insulted, but nobody seemed to have problems with this - the moderators included.

I think it's a difference between getting insulted by one person and nobody sees or hears anything... and the insult/ offence happening in front of the whole group. The role of the group is key, I think.
When they condone the insult, it's the group's fault I think.

Did anything of this sort happen to you?

Years ago in a Christian chat people ganged up on me when I told them per convo topic I am gay. Not one christian and christian mods addressed the insults. I think peer pressure and not standing out to make your peers think you've betrayed them or something.

Some confuse difference of opinion and insult in that when a person tells a christian "you've insulted me" they won't care unless they see it for themselves.

I've not seen it done other than that chat and RF on christianity and politics. If someone says they are insulted they most likely didn't make it up. So it's best mods in say chat rooms address the situation regardless the opinions on the chatter and stance on the subject matter.

The chat was alright in respects. Now that I know I don't believe christian theology is true, I have no reason to go. It's been years anyhow. Are people still using chat room these days?

 

[Revoltingest]

Years ago in a Christian chat people ganged up on me when I told them per convo topic I am gay. Not one christian and christian mods addressed the insults. I think peer pressure and not standing out to make your peers think you've betrayed them or something.

Some confuse difference of opinion and insult in that when a person tells a christian "you've insulted me" they won't care unless they see it for themselves.

I've not seen it done other than that chat and RF on christianity and politics. If someone says they are insulted they most likely didn't make it up. So it's best mods in say chat rooms address the situation regardless the opinions on the chatter and stance on the subject matter.

The chat was alright in respects. Now that I know I don't believe christian theology is true, I have no reason to go. It's been years anyhow. Are people still using chat room these days?

I've found that if one is in a particular group,
& one defends someone from an opposing group,
one might be criticized as supporting the opposing views.
This can have strange results...
I was once called out as a creationist. As I vaguely recall, it
was cuz I defended them as not being dishonest in their views.
Is it OK to defend one's foes from unjust criticism?

An atheist creationist.....whooda thunk it?

 

[Marcion]

In certain instances when arguing a certain line of thinking I am aware that I'm indirectly or even more directly criticising the author and redactor of a religious text and that the person following the religion that uses and honours that particular text may feel offended by my argumentation.

This is not the same as trying to insult or be hurtful towards that person, but I'm not sure how you can otherwise argue the point.

 

[Revoltingest]

While I’m confident you weren’t talking about RF, I can say, setting myself aside, that the staff here does a much better job than other moderation teams I’ve worked with in other fora in putting their own views aside and moderating with impartiality.

We are one of the only forums I’ve seen that has a system of checks and balances by moderating by consensus. And the admin team here does a fine job in hiring a diverse group. If everyone was like me, the forum would be in real trouble...

Aye, moderation here works for me.
But it's worthwhile discussing the theory & practice of it.
Who knows... perhaps it might inspire improvement in some way.

 

[Revoltingest]

In certain instances when arguing a certain line of thinking I am aware that I'm indirectly or even more directly criticising the author and redactor of a religious text and that the person following the religion that uses and honours that particular text may feel offended by my argumentation.

This is not the same as trying to insult or be hurtful towards that person, but I'm not sure how you can otherwise argue the point.

It can be difficult to avoid giving offense.
But since you're aware of this potential,
at least it inspires care when posting.

 

[thomas t]

Religion is like your politics, you musical taste, your dress sense, you choose to believe you are right.

here, we disagree. My God is my father, I think. It's family. Not taste.

The person has no choice be they white, black homosexual, trans,

no, my life used to be a train wreck.
Caught in depression, conflict wherever I looked. No money. And so on. I believe God was it that made the difference, I can't swap him now.

Now that my life is completely transformed by religion, I can start being happy again. Thanks to the Lord, I'd say.
My point: it's part of my identity. It's not like a T-shirt that I can swap.

If you have a long-lasting partnership in life, to a wife or a husband, you aren't born with it either. And yet, it's part of your identity.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Did anything of this sort happen to you?

Many Christians I have encountered are extremely tricky about the types of insults they lay down. An easy example is the insinuation that you are living your entire life incorrectly, and that you will be going to hell where the unspoken assumption is that you literally deserve eternal torture at that point - all based on what they believe comprises the judgment of mankind. And all during the telling of this idiotic tale, they claim that the reason they are informing you of this is because they "love" you." It is a load of crap so stinky I literally can't understand how anyone falls for it. It is a disgusting sham, conducted by people who are quite disgusting themselves in this regard.

Christians are also really, really awesome at deluding themselves into literally believing that they are doing the greater good when they call people "sinners" or "vile" or "broken." When I call someone disgusting - I know EXACTLY what I am doing. Make no mistake. I am not delusional. Not like those Christians who can say offensive things to a person's face and pretend that instead they gave them a hug. Ridiculous.

 

[thomas t]

It depends. For instance, I find "if you do not believe, you will roast in Hell for all eternity", without providing any hard logic and evidence, more insulting, then "you are a Schlampe". The former is a direct attack to my intelligence, the latter is just the final proof that my contender has lost.

Ciao

- viole

great post, I'd like to add that demonstrative and even publicly displayed indifference is a form of mental abuse, I'd say. "You gonna roast for all eternity? I don't give it a damn!" - this is verbal violence, as I would call it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I've found that if one is in a particular group,
& one defends someone from an opposing group,
one might be criticized as supporting the opposing views.
This can have strange results...
I was once called out as a creationist. As I vaguely recall, it
was cuz I defended them as not being dishonest in their views.
Is it OK to defend one's foes from unjust criticism?

An atheist creationist.....whooda thunk it?

I did that once when all the christians, mods, and owner kept telling this LDS she's not christian. I said anyone who believes Christ etc is a christian. She profoundly thanked me. Found out only trinitarians were "real" christians. They finally put that on a list of religious choices when registering JW and other "non christians" they say had to pick.the boxed with atheists and pagans.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

When I debated in a Christian forum, I became aware of the fact that some people were insulted, but nobody seemed to have problems with this - the moderators included.

I think it's a difference between getting insulted by one person and nobody sees or hears anything... and the insult/ offence happening in front of the whole group. The role of the group is key, I think.
When they condone the insult, it's the group's fault I think.

Did anything of this sort happen to you?

When I saw the thread title, I thought of something in real life.

I've noticed that whenever some pastor/minister/priest/etc. is invited to give an invocation or speech for a public event, there's a good chance that what he says will have some material that's pretty denigrating toward non-religious people or non-theists.

It's not always; maybe a third of the time? And I'd bet good money that, usually, the pastor doesn't realize how insulting they're being.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I did that once when all the christians, mods, and owner kept telling this LDS she's not christian. I said anyone who believes Christ etc are christian. She profoundly thanked me. Found out only trinitarians were "real" christians. They finally put that on a list of religious choices when registering. JW and other "non christians" they say had to pick.the boxed with atheists and pagans.

I used to work with an Evangelical who insisted that Catholics aren't Christian.

At this point, I've pretty much decided that one of the requirements to be a Christian is that some other group of Christians considers you "not a Christian."

 

[thomas t]

Thank you for respronding, UA.

Are people still using chat room these days?

you mean the one Christian forum I was talking about? Ask @viole .
Actually, I leave the moment I find out that at least one particular group is segregated out AND they are unwilling to discuss this kind of set-up.
So, I don't know.

 

[thomas t]

When I saw the thread title, I thought of something in real life.

I've noticed that whenever some pastor/minister/priest/etc. is invited to give an invocation or speech for a public event, there's a good chance that what he says will have some material that's pretty denigrating toward non-religious people or non-theists.

It's not always; maybe a third of the time? And I'd bet good money that, usually, the pastor doesn't realize how insulting they're being.

honestly, that depends from the pastor or preacher. There are good ones who don't need to show condescension towards the other religions, not even a second of the time.

EDIT: yes, real life explicitely included.

 

[Altfish]

here, we disagree. My God is my father, I think. It's family. Not taste.


no, my life used to be a train wreck.
Caught in depression, conflict wherever I looked. No money. And so on. I believe God was it that made the difference, I can't swap him now.

Now that my life is completely transformed by religion, I can start being happy again. Thanks to the Lord, I'd say.
My point: it's part of my identity. It's not like a T-shirt that I can swap.

If you have a long-lasting partnership in life, to a wife or a husband, you aren't born with it either. And yet, it's part of your identity.

I could say the same about my musical taste, my favourite band gave me friendship, solace and became part of my identity. I used to follow them round the country and abroad. But, I still accepted that other people disagreed with my taste and called my band all sorts of names.

Sorry, but religion is an ideology, I reserve the right to criticise the extremes and daftness of any religion.

 

[PruePhillip]

When I debated in a Christian forum, I became aware of the fact that some people were insulted, but nobody seemed to have problems with this - the moderators included.

I think it's a difference between getting insulted by one person and nobody sees or hears anything... and the insult/ offence happening in front of the whole group. The role of the group is key, I think.
When they condone the insult, it's the group's fault I think.

Did anything of this sort happen to you?

You can be insulted by a religious person, but you shouldn't be insulted by a Godly person.