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How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Skywalker said:
The term echad is used in the Old Testament to describe the Lord being one. Yachid is never used.
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That's not the problem for me. The problem is in Exodus 20:5. Worshipping "father+son+holy spirit" is too similar to pagan practices. If God is Jealous, then how one refers to God is important. Multiplicity should not be introduced. God's attributes shouldn't be worshipped. God's name shouldn't be changed.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
That's not the problem for me. The problem is in Exodus 20:5. Worshipping "father+son+holy spirit" is too similar to pagan practices. If God is Jealous, then how one refers to God is important. God's name shouldn't be changed.

Beyond that: It's rude to the creator of heaven and earth. :p
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Are you talking about worship songs that mention the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the same sentence?
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
That's not the problem for me. The problem is in Exodus 20:5. Worshipping "father+son+holy spirit" is too similar to pagan practices. If God is Jealous, then how one refers to God is important. Multiplicity should not be introduced. God's attributes shouldn't be worshipped. God's name shouldn't be changed.
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I don't think Messianic Jews have to practice their faith in a way where it doesn't look like they are both Jewish and Christian, but it would be weird if they said that they practiced two religions in one or they were first and foremost Jewish and Christian. It's like a family member can be a friend, but they are first and foremost your family member. Parents acting like one of the kids don't make sense.
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Skywalker said:
Jesus died for our sins because we are not perfect and when people commit crimes there are consequences and he doesn't want us to have to make the payment for our sins, so he reached out to us in his love.
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I don't know all the details, but didn't God give a way to have their sins forgiven prior to the coming of Jesus? So when they made a sacrifice were their sins truly forgiven? When they repented of their sins were they really forgiven? But then, we all know that all people will continue to fall short and sin again. But what is the difference if a Jew goes back and offers a sacrifice and tries to repent versus a Christian who accepts Jesus' sacrifice to get their sins forgiven, but don't they both still have to repent? Is either one forgiven if they don't repent, but continue to do the same sins over and over again. And, for example, when it comes to the sexual sin of lusting, how many people ever really repent of that and never, ever do it again? So no matter whether it's a Jew or a Christian, they still have to come back to God and say they have sinned again with the same sin and offer a sacrifice or, for the Christian, accept that Jesus has already paid the penalty for that sin. So does the sacrificed animal or the sacrificed Jesus really mean anything if the person doesn't repent?
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Skywalker said:
I don't think Messianic Jews have to practice their faith in a way where it doesn't look like they are both Jewish and Christian, but it would be weird if they said that they practiced two religions in one or they were first and foremost Jewish and Christian. It's like a family member can be a friend, but they are first and foremost your family member. Parents acting like one of the kids don't make sense.
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One of the problems with Messianic Judaism is there is no unification or real definition of what it is. You do have your two major denominations of UMJC and MJAA, but there are many many smaller groups and individual congregations that just make up their own standards. You have everything from congregations that adhere to the rules of Orthodox Judaism with the one change of adding Jesus as Messiah but not God, to Congregations that are strictly Trinitarian Christianity with only a few superficial trappings of Judaism covering it up. And remember also that these congregations have very very few Jews -- they are really Gentile congregations.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
One of the problems with Messianic Judaism is there is no unification or real definition of what it is. You do have your two major denominations of UMJC and MJAA, but there are many many smaller groups and individual congregations that just make up their own standards. You have everything from congregations that adhere to the rules of Orthodox Judaism with the one change of adding Jesus as Messiah but not God, to Congregations that are strictly Trinitarian Christianity with only a few superficial trappings of Judaism covering it up. And remember also that these congregations have very very few Jews -- they are really Gentile congregations.
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Do you disagree with the trappings of Christianity or its the theological beliefs?
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
It's theology. The trappings vary from denomination to denomination, so that is a much more complex discussion.
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The trappings of Christianity have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. People think that the Catholic Church is vain glorious, but Jesus never built a church like that. Some people may connect that type of architecture with the grandeur of God, but people coming to God through people's vanity doesn't mean that Jesus isn't God, because good can come out of bad.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Skywalker said:
The trappings of Christianity have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. People think that the Catholic Church is vain glorious, but Jesus never built a church like that. Some people may connect that type of architecture with the grandeur of God, but people coming to God through people's vanity doesn't mean that Jesus isn't God, because good can come out of bad.
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The church that the apostles establish was being called the catholic church by the end of the first century. But beyond that, I'll let you argue this with the Catholics.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
The church that the apostles establish was being called the catholic church by the end of the first century. But beyond that, I'll let you argue this with the Catholics.
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The term Catholic doesn't just refer to Catholicism. Catholic (term)

The term has been incorporated into the name of the largest Christian communion, the Catholic Church (also called the Roman Catholic Church). All of the three main branches of Christianity in the East (Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox Church and Church of the East) had always identified themselves as Catholic in accordance with Apostolic traditions and the Nicene Creed. Anglicans, Lutherans, and some Methodists also believe that their churches are "Catholic" in the sense that they too are in continuity with the original universal church founded by the Apostles. However, each church defines the scope of the "Catholic Church" differently. For instance, the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox churches, and Church of the East, each maintain that their own denomination is identical with the original universal church, from which all other denominations broke away.
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S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
CG Didymus said:
I don't know all the details, but didn't God give a way to have their sins forgiven prior to the coming of Jesus? So when they made a sacrifice were their sins truly forgiven? When they repented of their sins were they really forgiven? But then, we all know that all people will continue to fall short and sin again. But what is the difference if a Jew goes back and offers a sacrifice and tries to repent versus a Christian who accepts Jesus' sacrifice to get their sins forgiven, but don't they both still have to repent? Is either one forgiven if they don't repent, but continue to do the same sins over and over again. And, for example, when it comes to the sexual sin of lusting, how many people ever really repent of that and never, ever do it again? So no matter whether it's a Jew or a Christian, they still have to come back to God and say they have sinned again with the same sin and offer a sacrifice or, for the Christian, accept that Jesus has already paid the penalty for that sin. So does the sacrificed animal or the sacrificed Jesus really mean anything if the person doesn't repent?
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People want to be their own god. People worship the god they manufactured in their own mind, not the true righteous and just god as revealed to the Holy Scriptures. There is no one good enough for heaven. The scriptures write all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). There is no one righteous, no not one (Romans 3:10).
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Skywalker said:
Jesus did not start any denominations. The term Christian is only mentioned three times in the New Testament.
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That's true. Which really makes the world wonder why there are so many thousands of denominations, especially after the reformation.

Jesus by the way, didn't even try to start a new religion.
 
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