Is according to Jews everything God's will?

[rosends]

I wasn't talking about the tradition of those Christians. I was giving an example of Christians who were not anti-Semetic.

so it is only an appeal to tradition if you say it is? Sorry. Nope.

 

[Skywalker]

so it is only an appeal to tradition if you say it is? Sorry. Nope.

Mentioning an example of how Christians are not always anti-Semetic is different from me saying something is true because a pastor or a priest said it is.

 

[rosends]

Mentioning an example of how Christians are not always anti-Semetic is different from me saying something is true because a pastor or a priest said it is.

Mentioning how you believe in Jesus is an appeal to tradition so it is as fallacious as any belief of mine that you label the same way.

 

[Skywalker]

Mentioning how you believe in Jesus is an appeal to tradition so it is as fallacious as any belief of mine that you label the same way.

I was mentioning reasons why I believe in Jesus that have nothing to do with the traditions of human beings. Saying something is true because the rabbis or pastors teach it is an appeal to tradition.

 

[rosends]

I was mentioning reasons why I believe in Jesus that have nothing to do with the traditions of human beings. Saying something is true because the rabbis or pastors teach it is an appeal to tradition.

Saying you believe in Jesus because of a series of beliefs in biblical explanation is an appeal to tradition. Denying the older explanations of the bible means you are appealing to novelty.

When you actually want to consider to content, regardless of the age, let me know

 

[Skywalker]

Saying you believe in Jesus because of a series of beliefs in biblical explanation is an appeal to tradition. Denying the older explanations of the bible means you are appealing to novelty.

When you actually want to consider to content, regardless of the age, let me know

I don't believe what Brown says because is a newer author or disagree with the Pharisees because they are from ancient times. I agree with Brown because of his belief in Jesus.

 

[Skywalker]

Saying you believe in Jesus because of a series of beliefs in biblical explanation is an appeal to tradition. Denying the older explanations of the bible means you are appealing to novelty.

When you actually want to consider to content, regardless of the age, let me know

I agree with what Brown said because it agrees with my belief in Jesus, not because it's a person using an explanation that involves the Bible.

 

[rosends]

I don't believe what Brown says because is a newer author or disagree with the Pharisees because they are from ancient times. I agree with Brown because of his belief in Jesus.

So you agree with someone (who is "Brown"?) because he believes in what you want to believe in. That's a fallacy, for sure.

 

[Skywalker]

So you agree with someone (who is "Brown"?) because he believes in what you want to believe in. That's a fallacy, for sure.

I was citing what he said because he explains what I believe in in very simple and vivid ways. I don't agree with him because he believes in what I believe in.

 

[rosends]

I was citing what he said because he explains what I believe in in very simple and vivid ways. I don't agree with him because he believes in what I believe in.

So you agree with him because he doesn't believe what you believe in. Got it.

 

[Skywalker]

So you agree with him because he doesn't believe what you believe in. Got it.

I was quoting a Bible teacher to explain my beliefs in a more clear way. That's different from defending a certain interpretation over another just because it's part of tradition.

 

[Skywalker]

How?

Isaiah 41:8

But, you Israel, are My servant; Jacob, whom I have chosen; seed of Abraham, My friend.

Isaiah 49:3

And He said to me: "You are My servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified!"

Servant of the Lord is broad. It can refer to the nation as a whole, or the righteous remnant. The servant of the Lord in Isaiah 42 refers to the Messiah. Even some Jews believe that.

Rabbis believe the suffering servant is the Messiah but they belief he's not a messiah who is a savior, a messiah who in heaven thinks about our sins.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Pharisees rejected Jesus not because God hadn't provided them sufficient revelation in Scripture and in general revelation. Something else-pride, sin, or hard heartedness-may be obstructing their path.

First of all, not all the Pharisees disliked Jesus and his teachings. There is Nicodemus and Simon of Arimathea according to your gospel accounts. I am also quite convinced that Jesus was a Pharisee himself, of the school of bet Hillel. The school of Hillel and the school of Shammai (which controlled the Sanhedrin during Jesus' time) were at odds with each other, with Shammai being extremely strict. I refer you to Harvey Falk's "Jesus the Pharisee."

The School of Shammai Pharisees didn't like Jesus for two reasons. The first was because he had a more gentle halakha (interpretation of the Law) than they taught. The second was his claims to be the Son of God or Messiah, which was sheer hubris.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

While it doesn't have to be Jewish because that would be legalism and Judaizers, Hebrew Christians and Messianic Judaism shows that one can be Christian and Jewish. Since the Talmud didn't exist during the time of Abraham and Moses, Jewish Christian groups who don't believe in it are no less Jewish. Not all Jewish Christian groups are Judaizers.

LOL, I keep telling you, my friend, that you cannot be of the Jewish religion and believe that God is a man, or abandon the centrality of obedience and trade it for the centrality of faith apart from works. IOW you cannot, cannot, cannot violate core Jewish teachings and claim your religion is Judaism.

 

[Skywalker]

First of all, not all the Pharisees disliked Jesus and his teachings. There is Nicodemus and Simon of Arimathea according to your gospel accounts. I am also quite convinced that Jesus was a Pharisee himself, of the school of bet Hillel. The school of Hillel and the school of Shammai (which controlled the Sanhedrin during Jesus' time) were at odds with each other, with Shammai being extremely strict. I refer you to Harvey Falk's "Jesus the Pharisee."

The School of Shammai Pharisees didn't like Jesus for two reasons. The first was because he had a more gentle halakha (interpretation of the Law) than they taught. The second was his claims to be the Son of God or Messiah, which was sheer hubris.

That doesn't mean that his interpretation was any less valid. That was just the opinion of the Shammal Pharisees.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That doesn't mean that his interpretation was any less valid. That was just the opinion of the Shammal Pharisees.

Jesus' interpretation, with very few deviations, was that of the school of Hillel. It is also the school of Hillel that formed the basis of Rabbinical Judaism's halakhah.

 

[Skywalker]

LOL, I keep telling you, my friend, that you cannot be of the Jewish religion and believe that God is a man, or abandon the centrality of obedience and trade it for the centrality of faith apart from works. IOW you cannot, cannot, cannot violate core Jewish teachings and claim your religion is Judaism.

The priest in the Old Testament were like mediators. Jesus is our High Priest.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus' interpretation, with very few deviations, was that of the school of Hillel. It is also the school of Hillel that formed the basis of Rabbinical Judaism's halakhah.

There is a connection between Jesus and halacha. Jewish Christianity was a different form of Judaism than modern Judaism, but it was no less Judaism. There is reform Judaism and Orthodox Judaism-there isn't just one form of it.

 

[Skywalker]

First of all, not all the Pharisees disliked Jesus and his teachings. There is Nicodemus and Simon of Arimathea according to your gospel accounts. I am also quite convinced that Jesus was a Pharisee himself, of the school of bet Hillel. The school of Hillel and the school of Shammai (which controlled the Sanhedrin during Jesus' time) were at odds with each other, with Shammai being extremely strict. I refer you to Harvey Falk's "Jesus the Pharisee."

The School of Shammai Pharisees didn't like Jesus for two reasons. The first was because he had a more gentle halakha (interpretation of the Law) than they taught. The second was his claims to be the Son of God or Messiah, which was sheer hubris.

Job mentioned that there is no daysman between him and God. That means a mediator. What was Job talking about? I believe he was talking about the future hope of the Messiah giving people a closer connection to God.

 

[Skywalker]

LOL, I keep telling you, my friend, that you cannot be of the Jewish religion and believe that God is a man, or abandon the centrality of obedience and trade it for the centrality of faith apart from works. IOW you cannot, cannot, cannot violate core Jewish teachings and claim your religion is Judaism.

Why could we be saved by good works? If someone committed a crime, bribing the judge would only make their punishment worse. None of us is perfect. We all need the Messiah.