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The Reason Science Is Flawed

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I'm so sick of the whole "religion trumps science" and "science trumps religion" arguments.

But what's there to dislike? Their childish naivety is adorably charming. The absurdity of debating which of two equally moronic positions best fits reality surely appeals to the primeval sponge in all of us. The gratuitous anger and outrage generated by the impassioned debate admirably serves to keep our bones warm on cold winter nights. Sometimes, I just don't understand you, @SalixIncendium. It's almost like you're afflicted with sense -- or perhaps some other exotic disorder. I must know. Does your therapist know you harbor these... um... 'views'?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Science is fundamentally flawed because it's operating off the flawed assumption that there is an objective reality to study and observe. The truth is that reality is subjective. You are a powerful energetic consciousness that creates your subjective reality this is why you are constantly at the center of your universe. The brain does not create consciousness it merely acts as a filter for it.

For those that do not believe in spiritual matters, I challenge you to explore your spiritual nature. You don't have to take my word on anything you can all go out of body quite easily and that is all the proof you will ever need. Dreaming is a form of unconscious astral projection, but you can turn your dreams into lucid dreams. Anyone that does not believe in a soul or an energy body you can astral project and experience it for yourself in fact you do this every night even if you don't remember your dreams....

W.I.L.D. (wake induced lucid dream) and W.B.T.S. (wake back to sleep) are just some of the methods you can use to take control of your energy body (dream body)(soul). These scientific minded people on here are always demanding proof for a soul, well what are you waiting for go try these methods and report your findings back here. I guarantee that anyone can get out of body in just a couple weeks of trying sometimes only takes a few days depends on your determination.

To deny your spiritual nature is like a fish denying that it comes from the water. Sad and ridiculous at the same time. Because you deny your true nature you give your creative powers to others who manipulate you into creating a reality that doesn't benefit you, but benefits them...

Not much use if you can't make a good cup of coffee with it.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You are not experiencing your wide-ranging brain-independent consciousness right now. Your wide-ranging brain-independent consciousness is filtering itself through your brain which creates your human mind that you are experiencing right now.
It's time you caught up with what we've learnt about the brain and its functions in the past thirty years. There is absolutely no factual basis to your claim. Consciousness is generated by the brain. It has no independent existence.
How do you know none of them are real?
Well, not a single authenticated example, is a good start.

Then there's the total absence of a testable hypothesis as to how such a thing could be possible in reality anyway. Memory is a dynamic set of physical phenomena in the brain, requiring biochemistry and bioelectricity. Thus memory ceases at death. End of story.
Your soul is your full conscious energy.
My energy and my consciousness are generated by my body, again a matter of biochemistry and bioelectricity, both of which cease at death.
I told you that thought creates matter, matter does not create thought.
There's your fundamental error, right there. You're deceiving yourself by woo when you should be informing yourself by science, which at least answers to an objective standard for truth.
As far as science goes, it is nothing more than propaganda spinning the tale of whatever the global elite want you to believe.
Goodness, you're a Trump-supporter! A victim of fake news who's become a dealer!
In the past it was scientific knowledge that the earth was flat and you could be killed if you said different.
Who, where and when was anyone killed for asserting the earth was spherical?
Here is a fact for you. The physical world is but a reflection of the spiritual.
Really? What objective test will distinguish the spiritual from the imaginary?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
There is no objective reality. Thought is the creative force thus everything is a creation of mind this is ancient knowledge that all the cultures knew. The reason that everybody is interpreting this predatory parasitic "physical" world in a similar manner is because of your internal dialogue. You have been programmed since your birth and so inside your mind you have internal talk that reinforces that programming telling you how the world is. The entire purpose of meditation is to temporarily disable the internal dialogue so you may catch a glimpse beyond your programming. By changing your internal dialogue you will change the reality you are experiencing. Your beliefs are far more powerful than you know this is why words are swords and what you believe you will experience.

First there is an objective reality. We can make theories, perform tests and get predictable and repeatable results. If it was subjective this would not work. When you take medication you are assuming it has been tested and measured. When you fly on a plane you expect everything was measured and tested and experimented on. All of out modern technology relies on understanding there is a subjective physics happening in reality. Medical science is the same.
If not next time your computer breaks, car won't work or you have a serious health problem, just change your internal dialogue and fix it.
By your theory if someone goes insane and is convinced they could do any feat, then they should be able to.
We know this isn't how it works.
In fact in the mid 2000's many many people were harmed by insisting they were going to use the Secret to fix health problems, financial problems and ended up becoming depressed, sicker or even passing away from illness that they wanted to heal themselves from




I believe it is possible to go from the astral to the "real" world while staying out of body, but it is extremely difficult and very few are capable. When in the physical "real" world the energy body does not want to be here in energetic form it wants to go back into your physical body. You would have to have extreme control of your energy body to accomplish this.

Experiments done on this (many times) where a card with numbers and letters were put on top of a high cabinet and someone would astral project and try to read the card. It has never worked. Experiments have been tried where 2 astral projectors would meet up and exchange information that had been pre-set. It's never worked. There has been no demonstration that astral projection is actually leaving the body.
Even people who claimed to be masters at this could not perform basic experiments to gather hidden information. Robert Monrow could not, Rick Stack could not.

They continually sell programs where you and your friends can learn. But never once has a projector actually documented a case where they would come up with a hand signal or some type of gesture, astral project and show their partner then have the partner show that he saw the gesture afterwards. You have to have controls set up as well to avoid cheating but no experiment was even able to verify something so simple as that.
Were AP real people would be meeting up with friends in the astral plane and doing things and then later the friend would say "I saw you doing this then that then you flipped me off then you made your hand glow.....
There just isn't any evidence that it's nothing but a lucid dream.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
By changing your internal dialogue you will change the reality you are experiencing. Your beliefs are far more powerful than you know this is why words are swords and what you believe you will experience.



.

For over 30 years?
Cool. Can you demonstrate how you have used this to set up a life dedicated to spiritual pursuit? At this point I would imagine you are a multi-millionaire, even billionaire all material needs met so you can focus on the spiritual practice. Perfect physical health with students who you also teach and have achieved great things.
A successful business or several in some spiritual pursuits as well as probably health and nutrition, meditation....
Something at least like a Tony Robbins kind of set-up. Do you have a helicoptor?! Plane? How many millions have you donated to charity and building spiritual centers?
Links to your success websites? You must be in amazing shape as well?

If you just change your internal dialogue and then you change reality and beliefs are far more powerful than we know, please do show the results! You must have an empire by now and mastered all areas of life.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I never mentioned any religions except to say that religion is nothing more that a belief system indoctrinated into the masses to control them.

I, too, at one point, had such a limited understanding of what religion is based on my personal experiences. I learned that not all religions are as you describe. There are those that focus upon personal development rather than laying out tenets and dogma as a means of control.

Science is nothing more then the new age religion and is full of lies.

This statements demonstrates little more than that your understanding of science is dwarfed by your understanding of religion.

On the other hand a soul is what you are and you can experience it for yourself.

I'm well aware of what I am.

I will add that it's not for you to tell others what they can or cannot experience. You have no idea where others are on their journeys. If you experienced a "soul," then good on you. That was for you. That wasn't for everyone.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, everything you observe in the "physical" is an illusion. All the ancient teachings have told you this. The physical exists to capture your attention. Where your attention goes your energy flows. You are experiencing a predatory parasitic "physical" reality because you are in a predatory parasitic spiritual realm whereby your energy is being stolen from you.

The true universe exists inside of you not up in space somewhere, but you all have forgotten what you are and where you come from because you have been trapped in this "physical" predatory realm for too long.

Do you not see anything wrong with what you posted above? I highlighted the portions I see as problematic.

While you're most certainly barking up the right tree with regard to your understanding of transactional reality, I don't think that you see that you're doing exactly what you find to be fundamentally flawed with religion.

As I alluded to in my previous post, perhaps it would be more productive to share your experiences from the first person perspective rather than tell everyone what they do and what they are. In other words, change the "yous" to "Is."
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
There is no objective reality. Thought is the creative force thus everything is a creation of mind this is ancient knowledge that all the cultures knew. The reason that everybody is interpreting this predatory parasitic "physical" world in a similar manner is because of your internal dialogue. You have been programmed since your birth and so inside your mind you have internal talk that reinforces that programming telling you how the world is. The entire purpose of meditation is to temporarily disable the internal dialogue so you may catch a glimpse beyond your programming. By changing your internal dialogue you will change the reality you are experiencing. Your beliefs are far more powerful than you know this is why words are swords and what you believe you will experience.



There is not a scientist on the planet that can explain how something physical like the brain could ever give rise to something completely unphysical like consciousness. It simply doesn't happen it is not possible. Matter is a creation of thought and not the other way around. You then ask me how you can use matter to detect thought, you can't. The people that control your society know this, but they teach you lies so that they can more easily manipulate you. It makes sense for a magician to not want you to believe in magic, then you would never try to use magic to fight against their oppression and you would have no chance of ever beating them.

The test I have proposed. For you to go out of your body for yourself and don't take my word for it.



They are not mental that is a flawed assumption. You assume that because you see the brain waves doing different things you assume the brain is creating that experience. Again you have it backwards. The souls is having a real experience and because it's consciousness passes through that mind it causes that brain to have different psychological responses.

When you go out of body you go to the astral. If you don't understand what that it, it is the dream world. It is the same place you go during dreaming. When you dream you create a mental environment that is just as real as anything you experience during "waking" time. Here is what is critical to understand. The astral mimics the physical "real" world. You know that it mimics the real world because all your dreams.

The reason that subjects returning from the astral don't have any new information about the physical "real" world is because they were not in the physical "real" world. They were in the astral, but since it mimics the "real" world those inexperienced subjects thought they were experiencing the "real" world when they were not.

I believe it is possible to go from the astral to the "real" world while staying out of body, but it is extremely difficult and very few are capable. When in the physical "real" world the energy body does not want to be here in energetic form it wants to go back into your physical body. You would have to have extreme control of your energy body to accomplish this.
If there is no objective reality then who are you taking to in this forum?
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Science is fundamentally flawed because it's operating off the flawed assumption that there is an objective reality to study and observe. The truth is that reality is subjective. You are a powerful energetic consciousness that creates your subjective reality this is why you are constantly at the center of your universe. The brain does not create consciousness it merely acts as a filter for it.

For those that do not believe in spiritual matters, I challenge you to explore your spiritual nature. You don't have to take my word on anything you can all go out of body quite easily and that is all the proof you will ever need. Dreaming is a form of unconscious astral projection, but you can turn your dreams into lucid dreams. Anyone that does not believe in a soul or an energy body you can astral project and experience it for yourself in fact you do this every night even if you don't remember your dreams....

W.I.L.D. (wake induced lucid dream) and W.B.T.S. (wake back to sleep) are just some of the methods you can use to take control of your energy body (dream body)(soul). These scientific minded people on here are always demanding proof for a soul, well what are you waiting for go try these methods and report your findings back here. I guarantee that anyone can get out of body in just a couple weeks of trying sometimes only takes a few days depends on your determination.

To deny your spiritual nature is like a fish denying that it comes from the water. Sad and ridiculous at the same time. Because you deny your true nature you give your creative powers to others who manipulate you into creating a reality that doesn't benefit you, but benefits them...
In your title, you could have replaced 'Science' with many other things, such as religions, politics, humanity, life, or even the universe, and we would have just as meaningless a discussion as this one. At what level, or in what amount, is science flawed compared with how accurate (or useful) it is? When, as a tool of humanity, its value to us is seemingly greater than the nuisance it can also cause too.

Also, not sure how your particular views on spirituality would change matters much if all recognised such. What would actually change?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Science is based on experimenting and observation. It shouldn't be considered ''dogma.'' God and the soul aren't really explaining the state of the universe, as science explains it. So, science isn't flawed if we view it correctly.
Exactly, which is why I think the title of this thread simply is wrong.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I have been going out of body since I was a young child for over 30 years. When I was young I suffered from sleep paralysis so I started deep research into the occult and other spiritual matters because I knew that the explanation given by science was a lie.

Just say you made it up.
 

Dan From Smithville

What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Staff member
Premium Member
Dreaming is a form of astral projection which occurs out of your body. The body you inhabit during your dreams is your energy body. If you want further proof then I gave you two of the most popular methods to getting out of your body that you can all personally try for yourself. When you get out of your body you will know the truth.
I suppose I will just never know the truth. I will have to rely on the next best thing and go with science. You should drop by and watch me the next time you are out of body.
 

Dan From Smithville

What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Staff member
Premium Member
Dreams are not occurring inside the brain that is another lie of science. Dreams occur in the astral realm where things can manifest instantly. So whatever your thinking about you can instantly experience. Here in what we call the "physical" the manifestation process is slower.
What evidence leads you to these conclusions? Where is the astral realm? How do you know that is not a dream and that it is really just occurring in your head?

I am not really a rabbit. How would you know that with any confidence?
 
Can animals and birds etc do this?

Do you believe in Spirits and that some people can have contact with them?

Do you believe in spiritual healers?

Yes, I believe animals are doing this too. It is possible that by staying in this predatory realm for too long having your energy stolen your soul becomes weakened and eventually you can no longer inhabit a human vessel so you have to inhabit animals which will bring out your animalistic behavior even further this is called devolving. That is why the mark of the beat is a 6 which is a downward spiral. Your either spiraling down 6 or your spiraling up 9, but your always in motion.

Yes there are spirits and people can contact them. Spirits often visit people in their dreams and they don't even know.

Spiritual healers are real, if you have an energy blockage (that will make you sick) they can manipulate your energy and get it circulating properly. You don't need a spiritual healer though, you can cure yourself of any illness on your own they don't have any special powers that you don't have.

You have the burden of proof backwards. Scientists can show that they are right by testing their ideas and supporting them with objective evidence. How would you test your ideas? What objective evidence can you provide for your claims? If you have none then it appears that you are only pushing woo woo.
I told you if you want proof then you can do these things yourself. If you don't believe me there are hundreds of thousands of people that have shared their personal experiences with astral projection and lucid dreaming.

It's time you caught up with what we've learnt about the brain and its functions in the past thirty years. There is absolutely no factual basis to your claim. Consciousness is generated by the brain. It has no independent existence.
There is no basis for your claim science is not a source of proof to me. I know from first hand experience that consciousness is separate from the brain. If you would like to have the same experiences as me you can do so I promise you it is possible I am not trying to waste your valuable time this is real. Lucid dreaming is just the first step in learning what your energy body can do. The energy body is real you experience it every time you dream. It is capable of much more than you know.

Well, not a single authenticated example, is a good start.

Then there's the total absence of a testable hypothesis as to how such a thing could be possible in reality anyway. Memory is a dynamic set of physical phenomena in the brain, requiring biochemistry and bioelectricity. Thus memory ceases at death. End of story.

Memory is not stored in the brain, the brain is just a receiver of consciousness. Water can store memory and your vessel is mostly water. There are many authenticated examples, but it sounds to me like you choose to dismiss anything that doesn't fit with your views that is called being closed minded. I know for a fact that you haven't read every reported experience so there is literally no way for you to know if they were real or not.

My energy and my consciousness are generated by my body, again a matter of biochemistry and bioelectricity, both of which cease at death.
You may believe that if you like, and you will find out when you die that you are wrong. There is no such thing as "nothingness" it doesn't exist it is just a man made concept. If it did exist we would be experiencing it right now, but we are not.

Who, where and when was anyone killed for asserting the earth was spherical?
Oh I don't know, but such a belief was considered heresy at the time.

Really? What objective test will distinguish the spiritual from the imaginary?
That's your problem, you think there should be a test for everything and if you can't test something you just deny it. We are only able to perceive less than 1% of what exists and you call this minute perception your reality.

First there is an objective reality. We can make theories, perform tests and get predictable and repeatable results. If it was subjective this would not work. When you take medication you are assuming it has been tested and measured. When you fly on a plane you expect everything was measured and tested and experimented on. All of out modern technology relies on understanding there is a subjective physics happening in reality. Medical science is the same.
If not next time your computer breaks, car won't work or you have a serious health problem, just change your internal dialogue and fix it.
By your theory if someone goes insane and is convinced they could do any feat, then they should be able to.
We know this isn't how it works.
In fact in the mid 2000's many many people were harmed by insisting they were going to use the Secret to fix health problems, financial problems and ended up becoming depressed, sicker or even passing away from illness that they wanted to heal themselves from

The predatory reality you are perceiving is similar to what others are perceiving because you are all tuning into a certain frequency where by sensory data is being broadcast from the predatory consciousness that created this "matrix" reality to trap souls like you. What is subjective about it is that this sensory data must pass through your mind which filters it based on your beliefs.

Experiments done on this (many times) where a card with numbers and letters were put on top of a high cabinet and someone would astral project and try to read the card. It has never worked. Experiments have been tried where 2 astral projectors would meet up and exchange information that had been pre-set. It's never worked. There has been no demonstration that astral projection is actually leaving the body.
Even people who claimed to be masters at this could not perform basic experiments to gather hidden information. Robert Monrow could not, Rick Stack could not.

They continually sell programs where you and your friends can learn. But never once has a projector actually documented a case where they would come up with a hand signal or some type of gesture, astral project and show their partner then have the partner show that he saw the gesture afterwards. You have to have controls set up as well to avoid cheating but no experiment was even able to verify something so simple as that.
Were AP real people would be meeting up with friends in the astral plane and doing things and then later the friend would say "I saw you doing this then that then you flipped me off then you made your hand glow.....
There just isn't any evidence that it's nothing but a lucid dream.

Most people do not have enough control of their energy body to do this, but it is possible. I believe there are some documented cases where astral projectors were able to locate things in the real world, but this is not what I am trying to get anybody here to do. I just want you to start lucid dreaming. When entering a dream from the waking state (w.i.l.d.) you will become paralyzed, hear white noise, have energetic sensations, and float out of your body into the astral (dream world). From there you need to start learning how to control your energy body. Your energy body is your "real" body. When you die you will be your energy body so it's better if you learn to control it now before you die.

For over 30 years?
Cool. Can you demonstrate how you have used this to set up a life dedicated to spiritual pursuit? At this point I would imagine you are a multi-millionaire, even billionaire all material needs met so you can focus on the spiritual practice. Perfect physical health with students who you also teach and have achieved great things.
A successful business or several in some spiritual pursuits as well as probably health and nutrition, meditation....
Something at least like a Tony Robbins kind of set-up. Do you have a helicoptor?! Plane? How many millions have you donated to charity and building spiritual centers?
Links to your success websites? You must be in amazing shape as well?

If you just change your internal dialogue and then you change reality and beliefs are far more powerful than we know, please do show the results! You must have an empire by now and mastered all areas of life.

I don't desire to be rich or have a helicopter, but everything I want manifests into my life in synchronistic ways. I am in perfect health and I have not been to a doctor since I was a small child. Doctors do not cure anything anyway they just treat your symptoms with drugs that cause more symptoms so that you will come back and be a repeat customer. Your body is capable of healing itself of any illness and the placebo effect shows how powerful the mind is. In fact most drugs only actually "work" because the placebo and your belief that they will cure you.

I also want to state that I don't claim to be a master at astral projection. I learn new things every day as I journey and I am not a guru.
I'm well aware of what I am.

I will add that it's not for you to tell others what they can or cannot experience. You have no idea where others are on their journeys. If you experienced a "soul," then good on you. That was for you. That wasn't for everyone

I never told anybody what they can or can't experience. Anyone can experience anything they want and most people will ignore what I am saying. Souls have been trapped in this predatory realm reincarnating over and over in a detrimental cycle. I don't think there's anything wrong with me trying to help some of them that will actually listen.





I don't think that you see that you're doing exactly what you find to be fundamentally flawed with religion.

As I alluded to in my previous post, perhaps it would be more productive to share your experiences from the first person perspective rather than tell everyone what they do and what they are. In other words, change the "yous" to "Is."
I am not doing the same as religion I seek to control and exploit nobody. I am simple speaking the truth. Religion speaks some truths that are mostly purposely misinterpreted and mistranslated, and is full of lies.

I am here to talk about your soul. Now I will share personal experiences that I have had if somebody asks me, but I am here to talk about your soul because most people are fish that forget they can swim and birds that forgot they can fly. You are infinitely more powerful than you know and directly connected to the source of all things the 1 creative mind source consciousness.
 
In your title, you could have replaced 'Science' with many other things, such as religions, politics, humanity, life, or even the universe, and we would have just as meaningless a discussion as this one. At what level, or in what amount, is science flawed compared with how accurate (or useful) it is? When, as a tool of humanity, its value to us is seemingly greater than the nuisance it can also cause too.
Science is flawed because it makes the false assumption that there is a objective reality for it to study. If there is no observer there is no reality.

Also, not sure how your particular views on spirituality would change matters much if all recognised such. What would actually change?



If you began to take back your power and recognize your true spiritual nature then you would stop helping to co-create all the horrors on this planet like war.

Just say you made it up.
It is not even a debatable issue lucid dreaming is a known documented phenomena. It is real. Every night you dream even if you don't remember them all. Every night you go out of body and are in your energy body. I am merely trying to help you learn to control your energy body and learn what you truly are.
 
What evidence leads you to these conclusions? Where is the astral realm? How do you know that is not a dream and that it is really just occurring in your head?

I am not really a rabbit. How would you know that with any confidence?

It is a dream, but dreams do not occur in your head. Dreams are your recollections of the travels of your energy body. Most of what you do you don't even remember did you know that you have on average 5-10 dreams a night, but you would be lucky to remember even 1 of them.

How do you know that this here isn't a dream? The dreams I have are far more realistic than this.

For all the lovers of science your hero Einstein said that reality is just a persistent illusion.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Exactly, which is why I think the title of this thread simply is wrong.
Yep. Our understanding of science is flawed, not science itself. How one applies science, and compares it to spiritual beliefs, are what is flawed.
 
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