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The Reason Science Is Flawed

joelr

Well-Known Member
The predatory reality you are perceiving is similar to what others are perceiving because you are all tuning into a certain frequency where by sensory data is being broadcast from the predatory consciousness that created this "matrix" reality to trap souls like you. What is subjective about it is that this sensory data must pass through your mind which filters it based on your beliefs.

So that's the same thing as saying there IS an objective reality? This "frequency" everyone tunes into is the same, you just said it?
What you would need to do is provide evidence for a soul. Also why is reality a "trap"? and what is your evidence outside of the movie The Matrix?



Most people do not have enough control of their energy body to do this, but it is possible. I believe there are some documented cases where astral projectors were able to locate things in the real world, but this is not what I am trying to get anybody here to do. I just want you to start lucid dreaming. When entering a dream from the waking state (w.i.l.d.) you will become paralyzed, hear white noise, have energetic sensations, and float out of your body into the astral (dream world). From there you need to start learning how to control your energy body. Your energy body is your "real" body. When you die you will be your energy body so it's better if you learn to control it now before you die.
No, no, no, I read Rick Stack's (he studied with Jane Roberts/Seth) book in the 90's, I understand lucid dreaming. You don't get to make solid claims and then when asked for evidence you say "I believe there are cases..."
First I am telling you there are not. And I am weary of these new age models of reality that are based on zero evidence and media that actually makes false claims. Yes Robert Monroe claimed to be able to astral project into several different bodies, each being more strange and harder to access. But he could never project into a room in a controlled experiment or even meet up and exchange information with another astral projector.
When I put these fantastic theories to any kind of testing they do not work.


I don't desire to be rich or have a helicopter, but everything I want manifests into my life in synchronistic ways. I am in perfect health and I have not been to a doctor since I was a small child.

I don't buy that for one second. If you can control reality why would you not manifest a billion dollars to give to charity? Also to not have to work so you can spend all of your time on spiritual pursuits and teaching which is what you are doing now. Why have you not manifested a gigantic business where you are doing what you are already doing except reaching billions of people?
Also, most people are in perfect health through their 20/30s.
What you are claiming, all these things about reality and how one can master it this is old news. After the Secret came out in the 2000's every other poster on the Personal Development For Smart People forum was posting master classes about how to manifest your own reality. Eventually people realized the law of attraction was BS.




Doctors do not cure anything anyway they just treat your symptoms with drugs that cause more symptoms so that you will come back and be a repeat customer. Your body is capable of healing itself of any illness and the placebo effect shows how powerful the mind is. In fact most drugs only actually "work" because the placebo and your belief that they will cure you.

What? You have been given false information. Yes the body can heal illness that generally would not heal without medication and there is a placebo effect. But with EVERY SINGLE DRUG TRIAL they do double blind tests to actually see how much each drug works compared to the placebo effect? Every drug??
What you are saying is simply wrong.

Beyond that do you know how many times unconscious people have been given drugs that saved their lives? Or were unaware of what they had been given and the drugs still work? Or that drugs work on animals and they have no idea what is going on?
In fact most drugs are discovered because people in a certain area are noticing an effect that is happening over and over. Usually some type of herb or plant is being injested and having a chemical reaction. Once the chemical is found it's isolated and made into an actual medicine. So the effect happens first.

But LOA is a mess of mis-information. Even LOA expert John Assaraf estimated that the success rate is about 0.1% which shows it's random chance.
The Truth About the Law of Attraction

It also comes with it's own air-tight confirmation bias, if you fail then you were not thinking the correct thoughts.
Except again, there is no evidence that a mysterious energy leaves your brain and goes out into the universe and creates events that you experience.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
It is a dream, but dreams do not occur in your head. Dreams are your recollections of the travels of your energy body. Most of what you do you don't even remember did you know that you have on average 5-10 dreams a night, but you would be lucky to remember even 1 of them.
I did not know that. If people do not remember 90% of their dreams, how do they know they have 10? Who is keeping track and how do they know?

How do you know that this here isn't a dream? The dreams I have are far more realistic than this.
I don't, but I don't know that it is either. What if it isn't a dream, but a memory imposed by alien intellects from some far away stellar place that is part of what we know as physical reality?
For all the lovers of science your hero Einstein said that reality is just a persistent illusion.
Even if this is true, why is your illusion the truth and that of science false? There must be some reason besides your own personal belief that you cannot support.

I am still not a rabbit, but how do you know? I could be waskally.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Science is flawed because it makes the false assumption that there is a objective reality for it to study. If there is no observer there is no reality.
How do you know? Did you see it?

Can you provide the evidence and citations where this is a claim of science?




If you began to take back your power and recognize your true spiritual nature then you would stop helping to co-create all the horrors on this planet like war.
Wars and killing existed before we started learning and discovering with science. What is your explanation for that?
It is not even a debatable issue lucid dreaming is a known documented phenomena. It is real. Every night you dream even if you don't remember them all. Every night you go out of body and are in your energy body. I am merely trying to help you learn to control your energy body and learn what you truly are.
How do you know, if people do not remember them all? Is this dreaming something recorded and observed by science? What is an energy body? Can you describe that for me and show me the evidence that it exists and isn't just something you want to believe and have declared to be real cause you really, really, really, really think it is cool and want it to be true?
 
Sorry that is pure BS. You do not seem to understand the burden of proof. The burden is not upon me to find "proof". Your foolish example does not work because if it does not work for one you will only claim one did not try hard enough or do it right.

Without a proper test you do not have reliable evidence. All you have are stories of deluded people. Try to think rationally. What reasonable test could refute your claims? If you cannot think of one then you do not have reliable evidence for your beliefs.

I don't care about the burden of proof. I have told you what I know and what you can do to find out about your true nature as a spiritual being. If you don't want to then this is your choice I don't care. The truth will not be neatly packaged and handed to you my friend you must go searching for it.

Or, you have the knack of inducing dissociative experiences ─ "out-of-body experiences" ─ pretty much when you want.

But you know they're not real, because you never return from them with new remote knowledge of reality. So you make the untenable claim that there's no such thing as objective reality ─ all the time fatally contradicting yourself by conducting this thread in conversation with all these real people including me.

If you're right and there's no such thing as the world external to the self (objective reality / nature / the realm of the physical sciences &c) then you're just talking to yourself, inventing us and our answers, pure solipsism.

I have clearly stated that there are many subjective realities that are interacting with each other. The reality that you create for yourself is just as real as the reality that I create for myself. There is no contradiction.


No. No, they really, really don't. Not even remotely. I don't think you've done much researching about the "roots of religion" at all. I would say that's a matter of fact, but you don't seem to have the best grasp of what a fact is, so... just nevermind. Have a nice... life? Do you believe you have one of those? Eh...

What I said was quite accurate. The Sumerians invented the first written language and they were the first to start documenting their creation stories. Before that everything was stories passed on by spoken word. Sumer later became Babylonia and is now Iraq which is in the middle east. The Sumerians worshipped many gods and the Noah flood story and even the story of Adam (Adamu) in the Garden Of Eden and all your creation stories come from their tablets. It went from the middle east into Africa and China into europe and all over the world.

The only important thing you have to know about religion is that:
1. It was created by man, not God.
2. Ancient man used to worship the heavens and the stars and planets above.

Your reasoning for a subjective reality is flawed. Suppose that what you said about me being an energetic consciousness and can do whatever I will. That means that the only thing that exists is me. So the real reality is objective. Even though I can do whatever, that is still an objective reality because I'm still bound to the reality of being capable of doing anything.

People are not understanding what I mean. Maybe I didn't word it as best as I could have. Science considers the physical world to be the objective reality. What I am saying is that the physical world is not the objective reality, it is as all the ancients have said, just an illusion.

If you want to know what then is the "real" objective reality it is this: Right now all of our souls are in the predatory realm. Imagine millions of souls trapped here. They are all creating a subjective predatory reality which they are experiencing and they can interact with each others realities. That is what souls do, they create realities for consciousness to experience. You do it unconsciously even if your not aware that your doing it because you are a energetic creator being and you are always creating.


And for your second part, been there done that. I've had experiences of what is described as an out of body experience. But the question is, was that experience just a thought that my physical brain conjured up? How would I tell the difference between my consciousness actually leaving my physical body or the experience just being my physical brain imagining the whole thing. The only experiment I can think of doing to test this is to have my consciousness leave my physical body and then I being independent of the brain, I must destroy my physical brain. Once that's done, if the brain is indeed just a filter, I, my consciousness, would have to still exist. That proves that I am independent of my physical body, or does it? What if all of that was just part of my physical brain making me think that it really did happen. And if I was to physically commit suicide, and that action did end my consciousness, how would I even know what happened. If I no longer exist, then there's nothing that is left of me to even ponder that very idea.

Your thinking too much about it. One experience is not more real then the other. The only reason you consider the physical world to be the "real" one is because from your perspective it seems like you spend more time here. I want you to imagine what if you had a dream that lasted a thousand years and then you suddenly woke up from it into the physical world. You would be shouting this physical world is not real it is just a dream.

It is all real, if you have the experience it is real. Someone implanted the false idea of a brain creating consciousness into you to deceive you. When you are dreaming everything you experience is just as real as anything you experience here. When you begin to work with your energy body and control it you can begin to keep the dream going for longer. You can also begin to have dreams that are far more realistic then anything you can experience here.

All you have to know is the most basic fundamental of creation to know that the brain does not create consciousness and that is that:

Thought is the creative force in the universe ALL IS MIND
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I don't care about the burden of proof. I have told you what I know and what you can do to find out about your true nature as a spiritual being. If you don't want to then this is your choice I don't care. The truth will not be neatly packaged and handed to you my friend you must go searching for it.



I have clearly stated that there are many subjective realities that are interacting with each other. The reality that you create for yourself is just as real as the reality that I create for myself. There is no contradiction.




What I said was quite accurate. The Sumerians invented the first written language and they were the first to start documenting their creation stories. Before that everything was stories passed on by spoken word. Sumer later became Babylonia and is now Iraq which is in the middle east. The Sumerians worshipped many gods and the Noah flood story and even the story of Adam (Adamu) in the Garden Of Eden and all your creation stories come from their tablets. It went from the middle east into Africa and China into europe and all over the world.

The only important thing you have to know about religion is that:
1. It was created by man, not God.
2. Ancient man used to worship the heavens and the stars and planets above.



People are not understanding what I mean. Maybe I didn't word it as best as I could have. Science considers the physical world to be the objective reality. What I am saying is that the physical world is not the objective reality, it is as all the ancients have said, just an illusion.

If you want to know what then is the "real" objective reality it is this: Right now all of our souls are in the predatory realm. Imagine millions of souls trapped here. They are all creating a subjective predatory reality which they are experiencing and they can interact with each others realities. That is what souls do, they create realities for consciousness to experience. You do it unconsciously even if your not aware that your doing it because you are a energetic creator being and you are always creating.




Your thinking too much about it. One experience is not more real then the other. The only reason you consider the physical world to be the "real" one is because from your perspective it seems like you spend more time here. I want you to imagine what if you had a dream that lasted a thousand years and then you suddenly woke up from it into the physical world. You would be shouting this physical world is not real it is just a dream.

It is all real, if you have the experience it is real. Someone implanted the false idea of a brain creating consciousness into you to deceive you. When you are dreaming everything you experience is just as real as anything you experience here. When you begin to work with your energy body and control it you can begin to keep the dream going for longer. You can also begin to have dreams that are far more realistic then anything you can experience here.

All you have to know is the most basic fundamental of creation to know that the brain does not create consciousness and that is that:

Thought is the creative force in the universe ALL IS MIND
So this thread is basically nothing more than you declaring that because science does not support your bold empty claims, it has to be flawed?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't care about the burden of proof. I have told you what I know and what you can do to find out about your true nature as a spiritual being. If you don't want to then this is your choice I don't care. The truth will not be neatly packaged and handed to you my friend you must go searching for it.
In other words you just want to post nonsense and have no interest in learning from your errors.
 
So that's the same thing as saying there IS an objective reality? This "frequency" everyone tunes into is the same, you just said it?
What you would need to do is provide evidence for a soul. Also why is reality a "trap"? and what is your evidence outside of the movie The Matrix?

I am trying to correct my wording now so that people don't get confused. I am saying that the physical world that science studies is not the objective reality. If you want to word it this way then the "true" objective reality is that a bunch of souls trapped in the predatory realm are all creating subjective realities for themselves to experience and they can interact with each others realities.

The reason that the physical world is a trap is because it keeps your attention here. So long as you are paying attention to the physical world it is getting your energy and your soul is not leaving here.

The matrix movie was a nice metaphor for what is going on, but everything is spiritual and mental.

No, no, no, I read Rick Stack's (he studied with Jane Roberts/Seth) book in the 90's, I understand lucid dreaming. You don't get to make solid claims and then when asked for evidence you say "I believe there are cases..."
First I am telling you there are not. And I am weary of these new age models of reality that are based on zero evidence and media that actually makes false claims. Yes Robert Monroe claimed to be able to astral project into several different bodies, each being more strange and harder to access. But he could never project into a room in a controlled experiment or even meet up and exchange information with another astral projector.
When I put these fantastic theories to any kind of testing they do not work.

Being in the dream world does not provide information about the physical world. I have never personally been able to astral project into the physical world. Many many years ago I did an experiment with my grandmother. We live very far apart. She wrote down some words and numbers on a piece of paper and put it on her dresser. For about a month I tried to travel there are read what it said. I was never successful. I would enter the astral, and transport myself to her trailer, and read the paper, but it was never the real thing it was my own creation.

This does not mean that it is not possible though. I believe the reason that I failed was because I didn't have the necessary energy to do the task. Like somebody who never lifted weights trying to lift a thousand pounds. This is just a theory of mine, but I think that bringing the energy body into the physical world drains your energy. I'm not sure why or how, but that is the impression that I get.

I was however visited by a real woman once in my dreams. She was a more experienced astral projector than me and practiced black magic which gave her extra energy to do these things. It was not a pleasant encounter, I can't get into the details too much, but I also did meet her in real life so I know she was not just a dream character.

I don't buy that for one second. If you can control reality why would you not manifest a billion dollars to give to charity? Also to not have to work so you can spend all of your time on spiritual pursuits and teaching which is what you are doing now. Why have you not manifested a gigantic business where you are doing what you are already doing except reaching billions of people?
Also, most people are in perfect health through their 20/30s.
What you are claiming, all these things about reality and how one can master it this is old news. After the Secret came out in the 2000's every other poster on the Personal Development For Smart People forum was posting master classes about how to manifest your own reality. Eventually people realized the law of attraction was BS.
I don't claim to be a master at manifesting or anything for that matter. I am a dreamer. I haven't had to work in a very long time I always have whatever it is I need and nothing more. I don't desire to teach a group of people just talking on here is enough for me and there is no need to give people charity when they can create it for themselves.

I don't like the term law of attraction, but it is true that you can create any reality you wish to experience.

Your internal dialogue does create your reality. I can give you a simple example. Lets say there was a woman who believes she was extremely ugly. Everything she sees in her reality will confirm to her what she believes. Your going to say well that's just a superficial belief, but it doesn't effect physical reality. Ok there is a man. He believe that he is extremely unlucky at finding a parking spot he can never seem to find one. There are good spots available, but because he doesn't believe he will get them he doesn't look for them and so he never finds them.

Your internal dialogue tells you so and so this and this that and that. You will interpret reality to match the beliefs of your internal dialogue. If you want to change reality, you first must change your internal talk.

I did not know that. If people do not remember 90% of their dreams, how do they know they have 10? Who is keeping track and how do they know?
I remember most of my dreams I have far more dream recall than the average person. You can increase your dream recall by keeping a dream journal where you write them all down right when you wake up. The more you focus on them the more you will be able to remember them.

Wars and killing existed before we started learning and discovering with science. What is your explanation for that?
Science is just one of the ways that limiting beliefs are implanted into you. Before science they had religion to create wars. The truth is that nobody would pick up a weapon against another human being if you knew that everything in existence is intricately connected. What you do to others you are doing to yourself because the same divine spark of life that resides in you that gives you life also resides in all things.

How do you know, if people do not remember them all? Is this dreaming something recorded and observed by science? What is an energy body? Can you describe that for me and show me the evidence that it exists and isn't just something you want to believe and have declared to be real cause you really, really, really, really think it is cool and want it to be true?
The energy body is the body you inhabit while your dreaming. I'm sure you have experienced it before maybe yours was a rabbit?
 
In other words you just want to post nonsense and have no interest in learning from your errors.

In other words the truth can not be told to you, it must be experienced for yourself. I have told you how you can experience it, but if you do not wish to then there is nothing further I can do because everything I say you will say that I have no proof.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I am trying to correct my wording now so that people don't get confused. I am saying that the physical world that science studies is not the objective reality. If you want to word it this way then the "true" objective reality is that a bunch of souls trapped in the predatory realm are all creating subjective realities for themselves to experience and they can interact with each others realities.

The reason that the physical world is a trap is because it keeps your attention here. So long as you are paying attention to the physical world it is getting your energy and your soul is not leaving here.

The matrix movie was a nice metaphor for what is going on, but everything is spiritual and mental.



Being in the dream world does not provide information about the physical world. I have never personally been able to astral project into the physical world. Many many years ago I did an experiment with my grandmother. We live very far apart. She wrote down some words and numbers on a piece of paper and put it on her dresser. For about a month I tried to travel there are read what it said. I was never successful. I would enter the astral, and transport myself to her trailer, and read the paper, but it was never the real thing it was my own creation.

This does not mean that it is not possible though. I believe the reason that I failed was because I didn't have the necessary energy to do the task. Like somebody who never lifted weights trying to lift a thousand pounds. This is just a theory of mine, but I think that bringing the energy body into the physical world drains your energy. I'm not sure why or how, but that is the impression that I get.

I was however visited by a real woman once in my dreams. She was a more experienced astral projector than me and practiced black magic which gave her extra energy to do these things. It was not a pleasant encounter, I can't get into the details too much, but I also did meet her in real life so I know she was not just a dream character.


I don't claim to be a master at manifesting or anything for that matter. I am a dreamer. I haven't had to work in a very long time I always have whatever it is I need and nothing more. I don't desire to teach a group of people just talking on here is enough for me and there is no need to give people charity when they can create it for themselves.

I don't like the term law of attraction, but it is true that you can create any reality you wish to experience.

Your internal dialogue does create your reality. I can give you a simple example. Lets say there was a woman who believes she was extremely ugly. Everything she sees in her reality will confirm to her what she believes. Your going to say well that's just a superficial belief, but it doesn't effect physical reality. Ok there is a man. He believe that he is extremely unlucky at finding a parking spot he can never seem to find one. There are good spots available, but because he doesn't believe he will get them he doesn't look for them and so he never finds them.

Your internal dialogue tells you so and so this and this that and that. You will interpret reality to match the beliefs of your internal dialogue. If you want to change reality, you first must change your internal talk.

I remember most of my dreams I have far more dream recall than the average person. You can increase your dream recall by keeping a dream journal where you write them all down right when you wake up. The more you focus on them the more you will be able to remember them.
So you have no idea. You would need to know how many dreams you have in order to make the claim you remember most of them. You are not doing that.

Science is just one of the ways that limiting beliefs are implanted into you. Before science they had religion to create wars. The truth is that nobody would pick up a weapon against another human being if you knew that everything in existence is intricately connected. What you do to others you are doing to yourself because the same divine spark of life that resides in you that gives you life also resides in all things.
Just empty claims without benefit of any reason or evidence to consider. Science is a method to answer questions. You have turned into a straw man to support what you want to believe is true, but have no means to know it is true.


The energy body is the body you inhabit while your dreaming. I'm sure you have experienced it before maybe yours was a rabbit?
The energy body is sunlight and stars and gas from Jupiter, heat from Mars. Oh my stars.

You are just repeating a belief with which you have no evidence for support. You believe it. I don't have to and I am not inhibited for disregarding it in any way.

You seem to be mastering avoiding the question. I am not a rabbit, but how do you know?
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have clearly stated that there are many subjective realities that are interacting with each other. The reality that you create for yourself is just as real as the reality that I create for myself. There is no contradiction.
No, objective reality is the world external to the self. It's out there and you're in here perceiving it through your senses, which are your only access to it. In that real world, there are no out-of-body entities ─ immaterial 'minds' exist only conceptually / as things imagined.

That's why you can't return from an OBE with new remote information about reality ─ the dissociative experience which is the OBE is wholly internal to the brain.
 
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rational experiences

Veteran Member
In science the self a thinker is his own contradiction.

You exist and own self human form. Then discuss everything you claim you are not.

The claim thinking quotes I will be safe. As a thinker. First thoughts lied.

Abstraction of self bio body by thinking consciousness quotes O God earth stone one mass. Stone formed owned within its own form of stone. It's own spirit gases.

Spirit released arose out of the body God. O planet and heavens all bodies present the natural state. As self thinking is already present.

Womb. Space term inferred. Not any womb. First human contradiction. Space womb cooled the burning spirit.

The flaw science to lie and misquote description is coercive. Sophist. Human scientist . Sophism his words first thought to describe what he or him or his self thought. As a human living.

O science calculation to remove form from its nature.
Father adult male science self. The theist.

Scientist o. from small cell female ovary I became a baby.

Where he came from. Male human new thinker. Baby to adult.

The father human never came from a female human adult ovary. As mother. Fact is self aware human advice.

Two adult parents never owned baby experience of a human.

O pi contradicted o ovary. His owned life his story.

In his story about the past the claim is not self presence. Baby adult male present from O mother ovary. Father spirit in natural not present in thinking state. Did not own natural his story science.

His story male baby to adult history a human father is not to think a his story about science.

Human or adult.

First thoughts about O earth as it's heavens mass is without any self presence. Human adult father or baby adult male.

Just mass thoughts. About gases and how stone released that mass. O a stone body not pi O.

Self however lived naturally inside the heavenly mass already.

How the self contradicting self presence became an experience of a man human.
Quantified consciously a self human contradiction.

Highest self male human not sacrificed.

Topic science. Why I contradicted self presence.

Reason taught. Thought already in science discluded self presence. A human.


.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
What I said was quite accurate.

Sure, okay. It's about as accurate as a woman pointing a telescope at the same fixed spot all the time and concluding that there's nothing else in the universe beyond what she has seen. Meanwhile, the women who have turned their gaze to other spaces in the night sky know there's far more to the universe than what this one woman has seen. If we're lucky, the woman with the fixed telescope will learn to move hers when other women point out there's more than she has been observing. It's probably too much to ask her to get rid of the telescope and behold the whole night sky at once. Perhaps, eventually.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I don't care about the burden of proof. I have told you what I know and what you can do to find out about your true nature as a spiritual being. If you don't want to then this is your choice I don't care. The truth will not be neatly packaged and handed to you my friend you must go searching for it.
That is true of science, as well, although to be sure science does insist upon the burden of truth.

Yes, you have told us "what you know," but not how you know it -- and that could be anything at all, from genius intuition to infantile fantasy.

The difference between your POV and that of those who genuinely seek real truth, is that the genuine seekers establish for themselves some means by which they can assess whether they've found it, while you just assume that when you think it, you must obviously be right.

I don't find it very persuasive, myself.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
In other words the truth can not be told to you, it must be experienced for yourself. I have told you how you can experience it, but if you do not wish to then there is nothing further I can do because everything I say you will say that I have no proof.

Then like all other believers in woo woo it appears that all that you have are fantasies.

Tell me, would it refute your ideas if someone genuinely tried your suggestions but failed? If that does not refute your claims then you have a worthless and almost certainly false beliefs. Sorry, reality is not very nice to believers in nonsense.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
That is true of science, as well, although to be sure science does insist upon the burden of truth.

Yes, you have told us "what you know," but not how you know it -- and that could be anything at all, from genius intuition to infantile fantasy.

The difference between your POV and that of those who genuinely seek real truth, is that the genuine seekers establish for themselves some means by which they can assess whether they've found it, while you just assume that when you think it, you must obviously be right.

I don't find it very persuasive, myself.
A basic question to human males sciences inventor. Did you invent my life or co create my life by human sex?

Burden of truth. My thinking did not own the invention of life.

Thesis today biology genesis science inference trying to understand constant bio cell presence. Not truthful observation by motivation just a machine reaction.

Science quotes I preach by highest intellect and observations. I am not God X mass O. I am also not your machine controlled only by a living human.

Observation itself. Without scientific data.

Reason data is not seen it is inferred.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
I am trying to correct my wording now so that people don't get confused. I am saying that the physical world that science studies is not the objective reality. If you want to word it this way then the "true" objective reality is that a bunch of souls trapped in the predatory realm are all creating subjective realities for themselves to experience and they can interact with each others realities.

The reason that the physical world is a trap is because it keeps your attention here. So long as you are paying attention to the physical world it is getting your energy and your soul is not leaving here.

Source your information. Provide proof of souls, reincarnation and any empirical evidence that makes this story even remotely close to real.
My guess is you have read some New Thought media and took it literal.
Seth, Abraham Hicks, LOA media.
None of them have proof either so good luck.

LOA claims some magical energy leaves your brain and influences reality. Some energy that encodes actual intentions and can penetrate a skull. Of course there is no evidence for this energy in the standard model. Energy does not act in such a way. Experiments with random number generators produced no results.
William Tiller and Dean Radin have produced no remarkable results at all.
And the water guy from What the Bleep do We Know who makes "happy water" from happy thoughts would not allow his method to be shared and has failed to reproduce the experiment in controlled settings.

LOA if full of fraud and people selling fancy ideas but is classic snake oil. It started with New Thought in the early 1900's, to Power of Positive Thinking in the 60's, to Seth then to the Secret/What the Bleep. It's since faded after millions failed to get their dream house, car, job, fortune but they found the same up and downs as everyone else. Evidence. Provide evidence. Fancy concepts that pick elements from Eastern philosophy and metaphysical ideas still have to be proven to be effective.



Being in the dream world does not provide information about the physical world. I have never personally been able to astral project into the physical world. Many many years ago I did an experiment with my grandmother. We live very far apart. She wrote down some words and numbers on a piece of paper and put it on her dresser. For about a month I tried to travel there are read what it said. I was never successful. I would enter the astral, and transport myself to her trailer, and read the paper, but it was never the real thing it was my own creation.

Cool so there is some evidence that it's just a lucid dream.

This does not mean that it is not possible though. I believe the reason that I failed was because I didn't have the necessary energy to do the task. Like somebody who never lifted weights trying to lift a thousand pounds. This is just a theory of mine, but I think that bringing the energy body into the physical world drains your energy. I'm not sure why or how, but that is the impression that I get.

I might be Thor the God of Thunder? When I get enough energy I'll transform, maybe? But until then I think it's rational to not go around telling people this possible reality.


I was however visited by a real woman once in my dreams. She was a more experienced astral projector than me and practiced black magic which gave her extra energy to do these things. It was not a pleasant encounter, I can't get into the details too much, but I also did meet her in real life so I know she was not just a dream character.

anecdotal. Set up a controlled experiment with a lab, document your experiments. Until then this is equal to one of the millions of alien abduction stories.

I don't claim to be a master at manifesting or anything for that matter. I am a dreamer. I haven't had to work in a very long time I always have whatever it is I need and nothing more. I don't desire to teach a group of people just talking on here is enough for me and there is no need to give people charity when they can create it for themselves.
I'm sorry I do not believe you. If one wants to teach LOA (same with teaching anything) first you DO SOMETHING of note. You create a billion dollars and give it to charity to DEMONSTRATE IT'S REAL AND NOT NEW AGE BS. You create funds to open a center and hire teachers, you manifest as a demonstration.
Yet all the forum LOA people all claim the same thing. They don't want billions....blah blah.

I don't buy it. At this point the Secret has been seen by hundreds of millions of people. Books sold by each speaker in the movie in the millions. No matter how much you practice LOA life has the same up's and downs. Many people never achieve what they want. Then they say "it wasn't what I really wanted..."
Not much different from prayer.

If you don't need much, don't desire to teach, no need for this or that.....then how do you even know manifesting works?? Do you live with your parents? Living a modest life isn't really proof of manifestations?
Anyone can work part-time, live modestly, get a roommate and be happy. That isn't a sign of manifestations because it's a life that many people just fall into? You are saying it works, Based on what? Mundane things? Do you have your dream job? Did you manifest it or go to college and get a degree and become good in a field which isn't manifesting at all? That's going out and making stuff happen?

but it is true that you can create any reality you wish to experience.
I'm sure you believe that. There is no scientific evidence.
all of the students of Joe Vitale and James Earl Ray and all those LOA teachers. It's never ended up being a real thing.
Even James Earl Ray had great success from the movie the secret and ended up doing 2 years in jail.

Your internal dialogue does create your reality. I can give you a simple example. Lets say there was a woman who believes she was extremely ugly. Everything she sees in her reality will confirm to her what she believes. Your going to say well that's just a superficial belief, but it doesn't effect physical reality. Ok there is a man. He believe that he is extremely unlucky at finding a parking spot he can never seem to find one. There are good spots available, but because he doesn't believe he will get them he doesn't look for them and so he never finds them.

Your internal dialogue tells you so and so this and this that and that. You will interpret reality to match the beliefs of your internal dialogue. If you want to change reality, you first must change your internal talk.

That is just positive thinking. We know that has benefits.


Science is just one of the ways that limiting beliefs are implanted into you. Before science they had religion to create wars. The truth is that nobody would pick up a weapon against another human being if you knew that everything in existence is intricately connected. What you do to others you are doing to yourself because the same divine spark of life that resides in you that gives you life also resides in all things.

No the truth is if we experienced a real pandemic and supermarkets no longer stayed open we would all be picking up guns to protect our food because watching your loved ones starve in pain is not going to happen if I can help it.
How can you sit at a computer exchanging ideas and put down science? You have this computer because of the scientific method. Without science you would be chopping wood for the winter, growing food and living in the middle ages completely consumed with tasks to keep you alive. When your tooth became infected you would die a slow painful death because without science we haven't invented medicines or cars.
And there are numerous fails of LOA and illness where people thought they would just manifest health. I remember reading about many issues after the Secret was a big craze.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Science is fundamentally flawed because it's operating off the flawed assumption that there is an objective reality to study and observe. The truth is that reality is subjective. You are a powerful energetic consciousness that creates your subjective reality this is why you are constantly at the center of your universe. The brain does not create consciousness it merely acts as a filter for it.

For those that do not believe in spiritual matters, I challenge you to explore your spiritual nature. You don't have to take my word on anything you can all go out of body quite easily and that is all the proof you will ever need. Dreaming is a form of unconscious astral projection, but you can turn your dreams into lucid dreams. Anyone that does not believe in a soul or an energy body you can astral project and experience it for yourself in fact you do this every night even if you don't remember your dreams....

W.I.L.D. (wake induced lucid dream) and W.B.T.S. (wake back to sleep) are just some of the methods you can use to take control of your energy body (dream body)(soul). These scientific minded people on here are always demanding proof for a soul, well what are you waiting for go try these methods and report your findings back here. I guarantee that anyone can get out of body in just a couple weeks of trying sometimes only takes a few days depends on your determination.

To deny your spiritual nature is like a fish denying that it comes from the water. Sad and ridiculous at the same time. Because you deny your true nature you give your creative powers to others who manipulate you into creating a reality that doesn't benefit you, but benefits them...

And all that, communicated via an internet capable device and send across the world at light speed.

What do they say again about the hand that feeds you?
 
Science is good for creating clever lil devices like computers, but it can not explain existence and it will never prove that the brain creates consciousness because that is a blatant lie. Something physical can not give rise to something unphysical. Science should stick to making smart phones and quit making up cockamamie theories that it then passes of to the children in their indoctrination camps (schools) as facts.

Using your logic you could put a bunch of chemicals in a vat and apply electricity and you would have consciousness. It's utter ridiculous nonsense. The ancients have known for hundreds of thousands of years that thought is the creative force, but in your arrogance because of your technological developments in the last 200 years you think you are smarter than them and even call them fools. You do not have even a half of the wisdom that they had and not even a quarter of their spiritual understanding and mastery.

You have forgotten where you come from, what you are, and what your capable of, and instead have become blinded by the pretty flashing lights like a moth to a flame.

You know that during dreaming you can create entire worlds with your mind. There is no reason to assume that this physical "real" world is any more real than one of your dreams other than the fact that from your limited perspective it seems to you that you spend more time here, but even that isn't true. You come from the spiritual and your time here is but the blink of an eye. The ONLY reason that you believe this is "real" is because you are basing your reality on other people's. Other people are sharing a similar experience to you, so to you that is proof that this must be "real".

You are an energetic ball of consciousness that is creating a subjective experience which you can share with others.

You depend on other people to determine for you what is real so much that if you had an experience that others said isn't real you would foolishly question yourself and the validity of your own experience. I must have been hallucinating you say. There is no such thing as a hallucination there is only experience. If you experienced it then it is real. Has it not occurred to you that energies could interact with you which will manifest as something in your reality which nobody else would be able to perceive?

To the man talking about the law of attraction I am not trying to promote it. It's not about attracting what you want its about realizing that you already have it. When your thought and emotion align that is when you begin to create. You can do all the affirmations you want, but if you do not truly feel grateful for receiving what you want then you will never get it.

That's why your not supposed to pray for what you want, but be thankful that you already have it. Buddhist monks will pray for hours until they feel a real sense of gratitude.

Most of the people that try the law of attraction try to lie to themselves. You can't lie to yourself. You can't fake an emotion. I will put it to you in another way that you can understand. You internal dialogue is like the programming that dictates your reality. Your subconscious mind is the powerhouse behind your creation. The subconscious doesn't understand language people say that it operates off of symbols. There is some truth to that, but the language that the subconscious mind speaks is emotion. If you are trying to manifest something but deep down you have doubt about it actually working than you will never manifest it plain and simple.

Most people have become addicted to feeling negative emotions. So they create internal dialogues that constantly put their minds on a roller coaster ride. You replay back the same thoughts over and over in an endless loop until you get your negative emotion hit just like a junkie.

I also want to state that I don't claim to be a master at manifesting.

Sure, okay. It's about as accurate as a woman pointing a telescope at the same fixed spot all the time and concluding that there's nothing else in the universe beyond what she has seen. Meanwhile, the women who have turned their gaze to other spaces in the night sky know there's far more to the universe than what this one woman has seen. If we're lucky, the woman with the fixed telescope will learn to move hers when other women point out there's more than she has been observing. It's probably too much to ask her to get rid of the telescope and behold the whole night sky at once. Perhaps, eventually.

Yes the rest of the sky is that everything is spiritual which is what this whole thread is about.

That is true of science, as well, although to be sure science does insist upon the burden of truth.

Yes, you have told us "what you know," but not how you know it -- and that could be anything at all, from genius intuition to infantile fantasy.

The difference between your POV and that of those who genuinely seek real truth, is that the genuine seekers establish for themselves some means by which they can assess whether they've found it, while you just assume that when you think it, you must obviously be right.

I don't find it very persuasive, myself.

I already did state my personal experiences I have been lucid dreaming and astral projecting for almost 30 years.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Science is good for creating clever lil devices like computers, but it can not explain existence and it will never prove that the brain creates consciousness because that is a blatant lie. Something physical can not give rise to something unphysical. Science should stick to making smart phones and quit making up cockamamie theories that it then passes of to the children in their indoctrination camps (schools) as facts.

Using your logic you could put a bunch of chemicals in a vat and apply electricity and you would have consciousness. It's utter ridiculous nonsense. The ancients have known for hundreds of thousands of years that thought is the creative force, but in your arrogance because of your technological developments in the last 200 years you think you are smarter than them and even call them fools. You do not have even a half of the wisdom that they had and not even a quarter of their spiritual understanding and mastery.

You have forgotten where you come from, what you are, and what your capable of, and instead have become blinded by the pretty flashing lights like a moth to a flame.

You know that during dreaming you can create entire worlds with your mind. There is no reason to assume that this physical "real" world is any more real than one of your dreams other than the fact that from your limited perspective it seems to you that you spend more time here, but even that isn't true. You come from the spiritual and your time here is but the blink of an eye. The ONLY reason that you believe this is "real" is because you are basing your reality on other people's. Other people are sharing a similar experience to you, so to you that is proof that this must be "real".

You are an energetic ball of consciousness that is creating a subjective experience which you can share with others.

You depend on other people to determine for you what is real so much that if you had an experience that others said isn't real you would foolishly question yourself and the validity of your own experience. I must have been hallucinating you say. There is no such thing as a hallucination there is only experience. If you experienced it then it is real. Has it not occurred to you that energies could interact with you which will manifest as something in your reality which nobody else would be able to perceive?

To the man talking about the law of attraction I am not trying to promote it. It's not about attracting what you want its about realizing that you already have it. When your thought and emotion align that is when you begin to create. You can do all the affirmations you want, but if you do not truly feel grateful for receiving what you want then you will never get it.

That's why your not supposed to pray for what you want, but be thankful that you already have it. Buddhist monks will pray for hours until they feel a real sense of gratitude.

Most of the people that try the law of attraction try to lie to themselves. You can't lie to yourself. You can't fake an emotion. I will put it to you in another way that you can understand. You internal dialogue is like the programming that dictates your reality. Your subconscious mind is the powerhouse behind your creation. The subconscious doesn't understand language people say that it operates off of symbols. There is some truth to that, but the language that the subconscious mind speaks is emotion. If you are trying to manifest something but deep down you have doubt about it actually working than you will never manifest it plain and simple.

Most people have become addicted to feeling negative emotions. So they create internal dialogues that constantly put their minds on a roller coaster ride. You replay back the same thoughts over and over in an endless loop until you get your negative emotion hit just like a junkie.

I also want to state that I don't claim to be a master at manifesting.



Yes the rest of the sky is that everything is spiritual which is what this whole thread is about.



I already did state my personal experiences I have been lucid dreaming and astral projecting for almost 30 years.
Um hm? Read those words and numbers from your grandmother yet?

And by the way, you say,
I have been going out of body since I was a young child for over 30 years. When I was young I suffered from sleep paralysis so I started deep research into the occult and other spiritual matters because I knew that the explanation given by science was a lie.
Since you are 34, you are asking us to believe that you were doing deep research into the occult and other spiritual matters, and you "knew...that science was a lie" by the time you were 4 years old?

Guess what -- I'm not believing it.
 
Since you are 34, you are asking us to believe that you were doing deep research into the occult and other spiritual matters, and you "knew...that science was a lie" by the time you were 4 years old?

Guess what -- I'm not believing it.

I wasn't researching when I was 4 or 5, but I was already lucid dreaming. At the time I didn't know this was strange I thought everybody dreamed this way. I didn't start researching things till I was a teenager when I started experiencing sleep paralysis. I was probably around 12 or 13. When I originally started researching I just wanted to know what was happening to me. I knew that the explanation given by science about sleep paralysis was wrong. When I was a teenager I would have sleep paralysis almost every day. For most people this is a terrifying experience. Sleep paralysis is a form of spiritual attack and often there is a entity present. It is this sleep paralysis that accounts for almost all of the alien abductions reports in my opinion. Some call it the old hag every culture has a different name for this phenomena.

Eventually I learned that you can use the sleep paralysis as a spring board into a lucid dream. I also learned how to go out of body from a waking state at a young age which for most is a difficult meditation process to master. I didn't start learning about the different occult teachings until later maybe when I was like 15 or 16 and I have never stopped researching ever since. Information has a funny way of coming to me right when I need it which is why I say that my life is just a series of synchronistic events. Occult doesn't mean anything sinister, It just means hidden and there is tons of information that is hidden from the masses. In the past the ruling elite used to practice blood sacrifice openly, now since times have changed they must do it in private. Do you really believe they would do this for thousands of years for no reason because there blithering idiots? No, there are real spiritual parasitic beings that those that rule over humanity worship. This is how they rise to power in the first place. They keep this knowledge carefully concealed within their own royal blood lines. The world literally is nothing like what they teach you it is in school that was all a form of brainwashing. All the media outlets are owned by these ruling elite and everything you see on a tv or computer screen is a form of brainwashing because it shapes your world view.
 
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