Atheisms and the supernatural

[Eyes to See]

Just because one is an atheist doesn't mean they won't bump into the supernatural. There are a plethora of stories out there of people that have no beliefs in God, Satan or the angels and demons who get demonically harassed by evil spirits. I would say millions of stories out there. A short perusal of the internet will lead you to untold stories from people who have no belief getting their world upended on a dime. There are also pleasant stories of atheists who actually have the privilege and joy of God entering their lives when they are sincere and looking for him. It's not that he isn't there. The person just has to look and want to be found by him.

 

[Quintessence]

What is "the supernatural?"

It's about as nebulous as a term as "gods."

 

[ChristineM]

Was thinking if you had an opinion about it regardless of other people's personal views. For example, you mentioned lack of evidence and compared it to unicorns. So, it makes me wonder if it's just lack of belief or does it need to be based on lack of evidence and nothing else (second question).

I read the bible, i mean read it from beginning to end ad opposed to cherry licking which verses the preacher recommends. I think thats enough to make any open mind ask questions. When there are no answers, or because god those questions made me at least look deeper.

Nothing about the definition itself. Unless you're saying that people are having the wrong or added definition than what it "should" be?

As i said, people can think whatever they want, and believe me there are some very lateral thinkers on RF when it comes to something they don't understand, like how simple atheism is

 

[Goddess Kit]

Just because one is an atheist doesn't mean they won't bump into the supernatural. There are a plethora of stories out there of people that have no beliefs in God, Satan or the angels and demons who get demonically harassed by evil spirits. I would say millions of stories out there. A short perusal of the internet will lead you to untold stories from people who have no belief getting their world upended on a dime. There are also pleasant stories of atheists who actually have the privilege and joy of God entering their lives when they are sincere and looking for him. It's not that he isn't there. The person just has to look and want to be found by him.

Yes, fiction stories do exist in a multitude. I agree.

 

[Polymath257]

Atheism simply means the lack of belief in any deity. Period. Nothing else.

There *are* atheists that believe in a supernatural. But, the majority do not. Those that do simply believe in a supernatural, but lack a belief in deities in that supernatural.

The most *common* reason people are atheists is because they are skeptics in general. That *usually* means they also lack a belief in any supernatural.

Often, but not always, the lack of belief is because of a lack of evidence. So the skepticism, along with a lack of evidence, leads to a lack of belief.

Some atheists go further and actually believe there are no deities. They are often called 'strong atheists' to distinguish them from those who simply lack a belief.

 

[Polymath257]

Do you think atheism in general is based on skepticism (and to many lack of evidence)? (Maybe added to the original definition)

Many atheists are atheists because of skepticism. But not all.

 

[ChristineM]

A real life supernatural story.

I know a guy, a struggling actor, atheist but had a deep belief in ghosts.

His agent phoned with a job, to go on one of the ghost hunt type of programmes.

He was overjoyed, he'd watched the programme, genuine ghost and chances are he would actually see one.

He arrived at the set, an old castle with a reputation for being haunted.

Almost beside himself with anticipation he said his hello's picked up his script, sat down and started reading.

When he realised that the ghost was also scripted to appear at the end of a corridor and my friend was supposed to gasp in shock he put down the script and walked out

His belief in the supernatural shattered by reality.

 

[Goddess Kit]

A real life supernatural story.

I know a guy, a struggling actor, atheist but had a deep belief in ghosts.

His agent phoned with a job, to go on one of the ghost hunt type of programmes.

He was overjoyed, he'd watched the programme, genuine ghost and chances are he would actually see one.

He arrived at the set, an old castle with a reputation for being haunted.

Almost beside himself with anticipation he said his hello's picked up his script, sat down and started reading.

When he realised that the ghost was also scripted to appear at the end of a corridor and my friend was supposed to gasp in shock he put down the script and walked out

His belief in the supernatural shattered by reality.

Catering to the gullible is Hollywood's agenda.

 

[Quintessence]

To add, it is often assumed (incorrectly) in English-speaking cultures that gods must be supernatural since the most talked about god-concept in these cultures has that quality. This is in part where the association between atheism and rejection of the supernatural comes from, as one logically follows from the other.

By extension, it is also often assumed (incorrectly) in these same cultures that there is no evidence for gods since supernatural god-concepts by their very nature can't have objective evidence for them. It's how we get frequent comparisons of gods to other supernatural entities, even though that isn't really an accurate comparison if theism as a whole is examined.

Atheism, as PureX said, by its very nature is a reaction against specific theistic propositions in a culture. Just calling it "lack of belief" in gods isn't good enough. It doesn't tell us anything without added context. The term theism operates the same way - it also doesn't tell us anything without added context. Useless, useless words without context. So too is the term supernatural... a word I very deliberately avoid in talking about pretty much anything.

 

[Goddess Kit]

Yet if god is a natural aspect of all we know and understand to be the natural world in which we live, where is god?

 

[Eyes to See]

Yes, fiction stories do exist in a multitude. I agree.

The remark, snooty and childish as it is, belies deep-rooted ignorance. It is also very unemphatic and shows a gross lack of understanding for those atheists who do go through harrowing supernatural encounters. The majority of them demonic in nature. I have a feeling if one were to approach you with their experiences you would answer in your same condescending tone as you do here. It is your nature.

Existence is far more grand and broad than your strict and narrow view of things. And to judge others on your narrow and preconceived ideas of life, full of prejudice and ignorance, is well, just that.

But that is not to say that all encounters are of evil. I know of atheists who have turned to serving the living God after having known him personally in their lives.

Here is something for you to think about. Atheism and satanism are synonymous. The word atheist comes from Greek, a - without, theos - god. It literally means without God. Satan means Resistor. Satan is in opposition to God. And in fact many satanists are outright atheists in proclamation. So it is of little wonder that atheism and satanism go hand in hand, they are both in opposition to Jehovah God.

 

[George-ananda]

My questions are:

Does atheism need to be connected with disbelief in all the supernatural (an addition to the definition perhaps?)

Also, does atheism need to refer to disbelief based only of lack of evidence and no other reason but just not believing deities exist?

I know the definition of atheism-the strict definition that is-though I read a common consensus on RF that it goes beyond that. Hence the questions.

Atheism is a disbelief in all god(s). Atheists can still believe in supernatural and paranormal things but most generally atheists are also materialists meaning they only believe in the physical/material aspects of reality. They usually don't believe in things like ghosts and spirits.

 

[ecco]

Does atheism need to be connected with disbelief in all the supernatural (an addition to the definition perhaps?)

It doesn't need to be. Speaking for myself, I believe in nothing supernatural.

Also, does atheism need to refer to disbelief based only of lack of evidence and no other reason but just not believing deities exist?

Lack of evidence is certainly part of it. Thousands of deities, not one single shred of evidence for any of them, ever.

Then there is also the vast amount of evidence that clearly shows that gods are the creation of man's imaginings.

 

[Goddess Kit]

The remark, snooty and childish as it is, belies deep-rooted ignorance. It is also very unemphatic and shows a gross lack of understanding for those atheists who do go through harrowing supernatural encounters. The majority of them demonic in nature. I have a feeling if one were to approach you with their experiences you would answer in your same condescending tone as you do here. It is your nature.

Existence is far more grand and broad than your strict and narrow view of things. And to judge others on your narrow and preconceived ideas of life, full of prejudice and ignorance, is well, just that.

But that is not to say that all encounters are of evil. I know of atheists who have turned to serving the living God after having known him personally in their lives.

Here is something for you to think about. Atheism and satanism are synonymous. The word atheist comes from Greek, a - without, theos - god. It literally means without God. Satan means Resistor. Satan is in opposition to God. And in fact many satanists are outright atheists in proclamation. So it is of little wonder that atheism and satanism go hand in hand, they are both in opposition to Jehovah God.

Ironically, the only claims I ever see of supernatural experiences are from those who were already believers. But you keep hyping the fiction as you see fit.

 

[Eyes to See]

Ironically, the only claims I ever see of supernatural experiences are from those who were already believers. But you keep hyping the fiction as you see fit.

Well, you have just testified to your own ignorance and narrow scope of things. Denying truth as if it was fiction does not change it. Just as the proverbial ostrich sticking its head in the sand to ignore what is real, doesn't change it. But I also understand that those with no spirituality cannot comprehend the magnificent realities:

"But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually."-1 Corinthians 2:14.

A person with true wisdom would not be so easy to judge that of which they no nothing of.

And while what you see with the eyes is ephemeral, passing, simple unrealities, what is unseen is real, and remains forever.

 

[firedragon]

I read that atheism is always connected to the belief that there is no supernatural rather than just disbelief in deities (Zues, Jehovah, et cetera-not-force and cosmos et cetera). It is also said because these two are not based on objective evidence, there is no reason to believe it (thereby the basis of being an atheist comes from, supposedly).

My questions are:

Does atheism need to be connected with disbelief in all the supernatural (an addition to the definition perhaps?)

Also, does atheism need to refer to disbelief based only of lack of evidence and no other reason but just not believing deities exist?

I know the definition of atheism-the strict definition that is-though I read a common consensus on RF that it goes beyond that. Hence the questions.

Atheism is predominantly an identity statement. Just like other religions.

There are atheists who believe in some supernatural power. You can call it "higher power". By definition they cannot be atheists, but by identity they are.

Peace.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I read that atheism is always connected to the belief that there is no supernatural rather than just disbelief in deities (Zues, Jehovah, et cetera-not-force and cosmos et cetera).

So the old advice "don't believe everything you read" proves its value once again.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Does atheism need to be connected with disbelief in all the supernatural (an addition to the definition perhaps?)

No.

Take me: I think that the whole notion of "the supernatural" is incoherent and ultimately meaningless, so I *can't* disbelieve in the supernatural as a category.

The statement "the supernatural does not exist" is only meaningful if the term "supernatural" is meaningful; I say that the term "supernatural" is meaningless.

 

[PureX]

It is simpler than that.

"God" is like nessie, mermaids, wingworms,
Atlantis, hippogrifs, astrology all the other made up garbage people try to promote.

That's your proposition of truth regarding the nature and existence of God/gods. And presumably it's based on some kind of reasoning. In a philosophical setting such as this, when you posit a proposition of truth, you are expected to offer the reasoning by which you arrived at it, for an analysis of the logic within it, by those you proposed your truth, to. Just as when the theist proposes theism as a truth claim, to you, he is likewise expected to offer the reasoning by which he arrived at that position, for logical analysis, by you, and others.

You can claim your "disbelief" as your justification for asserting this truth claim, but what you believe or don't believe carries no weight at all, logically. And so will rightly be ignored by anyone seeking a logical reason to accept your assertion as valid.

 

[PureX]

What is the opposite of belief?

Who cares? It has no bearing on the validity of any proposed truth being proclaimed.