Gay Christian

[Kenny]

That your neighbor isn't welcome at your house.

My neighbor IS welcome at my house. Where, in the recesses of your mind, do you get your info from? Speaks about who your are.

 

[Kenny]

How does free will work? By what process can the brain make a decision independently of its biochemical / bioelectrical abilities to make decisions?

by making choices.. or do you think you are just a robot with no thinking capacity?

 

[February-Saturday]

There are many Christian denominations that are fully accepting of LGBT persons, and many of those go so far as to marry them.

The United Church of Canada (the largest Protestant denomination in Canada, and second largest Christian one after Roman Catholicism), is fully accepting, and many parishes are happy to marry gay couples in their churches.

Here's a list of Christian organizations around the world that accept LGBT persons. I think you would wrong to suggest that they are all not "buying into Christianity."

List of Christian denominations affirming LGBT - Wikipedia

I never said that they were all not buying into Christianity. I said it's silly to be gay and be Christian. I'm aware that there are many denominations and churches that claim to be LGBT friendly. I should note here that many of them still are not, from what I've heard, and are still rather homophobic once you're inside, but I'm also aware that that's not true for all of them.

That doesn't change how I feel about the issue at all.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No, that's simply untrue. There's never a moment when the angel taps you on the shoulder and says, Here's the list, do you want to be straight or gay or bi, prefer vanilla or strawberry, be six foot or five foot, have red or blond or dark hair ... You get the kit you're born with.

Even were you correct, it would still be none of your concern anyway; but it's not correct. Occasionally it's visible from an early age ─ have you never met a child about eight or nine and thought he (more rarely she) is going to be gay? A boy who lived on our block when our kids were young used to come round to our house and play; and my wife and I compared notes after a while and each of us had had the same thought. So it proved ─ as I mentioned to KenS in a post recently, I remember drinks at our place when he graduated; his boyfriend was with him. Wherever he is now, I hope he's traveling well.

The way I understand it, is to say as me as an Aspie that it is a choice. That is absurd. I have really tried as some homosexuals not to be what I am, but I am an Aspie. Trying not to be it only caused me misery and pain in the end.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

by making choices.. or do you think you are just a robot with no thinking capacity?

That I can think, doesn't mean that it is free.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I never said that they were all not buying into Christianity. I said it's silly to be gay and be Christian. I'm aware that there are many denominations and churches that claim to be LGBT friendly. I should note here that many of them still are not, from what I've heard, and are still rather homophobic once you're inside, but I'm also aware that that's not true for all of them.

That doesn't change how I feel about the issue at all.

So you argue based on what you find silly. Okay.

 

[February-Saturday]

So you argue based on what you find silly. Okay.

What does that even mean?

My original post was giving my feelings and perspective on the issue. I haven't argued anything. Would you like to get into an argument?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What does that even mean?

My original post was giving my feelings and perspective on the issue. I haven't argued anything. Would you like to get into an argument?

"I said it's silly to be gay and be Christian."

 

[blü 2]

My neighbor IS welcome at my house. Where, in the recesses of your mind, do you get your info from? Speaks about who your are.

I'm the guy who thinks my neighbor's sexuality is none of my business.

I'm also the guy who thinks any god who thinks homosexuality must be stamped out, who thinks that any homosexual person must be discriminated against, whether in this world or the next, is a moral midget. not worth anyone's respect.

 

[eik]

IF God is omnipotent THEN it MUST be true.

IF it's not true THEN God is not omnipotent.

A moment's thought will show you that's correct.

I have already given it thought, but you do not seem to be able to address my argument that there is a difference between God's purposes, as take effect in heaven, irrespective of humanity's sins, and God's intentions for humanity, which is that they become sinless by repentance. It is not God's intention that men sin, even if some are given over to sin so as to attract the wrath of God in due course, to fulfil God's purposes.

 

[blü 2]

by making choices.. or do you think you are just a robot with no thinking capacity?

My brain makes decisions as the result of complex interacting chains of cause+effect. The decision-making process has been the subject of detailed studies.

None of them discloses a manner in which a decision is made independently of the biochemistry.

So we're left with chains of cause+effect, possibly kept from strict determinism (in the classical sense) by random quantum events.

We're a very complex robot, then, and maybe not totally reliable, but at no point are we independent of our own mechanism.

 

[blü 2]

The way I understand it, is to say as me as an Aspie that it is a choice. That is absurd. I have really tried as some homosexuals not to be what I am, but I am an Aspie. Trying not to be it only caused me misery and pain in the end.

I think your analogy is exactly correct.

(And I wish you all the best.)

 

[eik]

So you are God, because you know, what God knows.

It's not that difficult to know what God knows. You can read it in the bible.

 

[blü 2]

I have already given it thought, but you do not seem to be able to address my argument that there is a difference between God's purposes, as take effect in heaven, irrespective of humanity's sins, and God's intentions for humanity, which is that they become sinless by repentance. It is not God's intention that men sin, even if some are given over to sin so as to attract the wrath of God in due course, to fulfil God's purposes.

But that requires God not to be omnipotent. If [he]'s omnipotent then ALL the bucks ─ every single one ─ stop at [his] desk ─ there's nowhere else they can stop.

If [he]'s not omnipotent, we can discuss the consequences of that.
'

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I never said that they were all not buying into Christianity. I said it's silly to be gay and be Christian. I'm aware that there are many denominations and churches that claim to be LGBT friendly. I should note here that many of them still are not, from what I've heard, and are still rather homophobic once you're inside, but I'm also aware that that's not true for all of them.

That doesn't change how I feel about the issue at all.

But you see, how you "feel about the issue" means absolutely nothing. It is not, you see, your issue.

Try living your own life, and as Jesus admonished you, keep your judgments to yourself.

 

[eik]

But that requires God not to be omnipotent. If [he]'s omnipotent then ALL the bucks ─ every single one ─ stop at [his] desk ─ there's nowhere else they can stop.

If [he]'s not omnipotent, we can discuss the consequences of that.
'

No. God is not the author of sin just because he gives men free will, and thus the ability to sin. Even if God can be accused of permitting sin, he does it so that he can be glorified in his mercy to those who sin ignorantly. I'll agree that if the whole world was full of "gay Christians" then there wouldn't be any point in allowing the world to continue. It would have to come to an end because there would be no further purpose for it, just like Sodom came to an end. Sodom is the biblical prophecy for how and why the world will end.

 

[columbus]

It's not that difficult to know what God knows. You can read it in the bible.

What reason would I have for the belief that primitive folks, centuries ago, knew more about God than I do?

I know a ton of things that they didn't know. From science to ethics to geography to philosophy, I know a ton more than than the authors of Scripture did. Most modern people do, if they have a reasonable education. I'm not special or anything.

Why should I even consider the possibility that you understand God, because you revere some ancient people and feel attached to your interpretation of their literature, when I know more about a lot of things than they did and I have a much higher standard for evidence than you do?

Tom

 

[blü 2]

No. God is not the author of sin just because he gives men free will, and thus the ability to sin.

If God is omnipotent then God perfectly foresaw every single consequence of giving men free will.

My own view, and not so uncommon, is that we have 'freedom' to choose, but we're never free of our own choosing mechanism, the processes of our brain by which we decide.

And, wholly independently of that, an omnipotent god rules out any possibility of human free will ─ it is impossible for any human to deviate, even by the width of a quark, from what God perfectly foresaw back before [he] made the universe.

The bible can say what it likes, but it has no cred until it directly addresses such issues.

 

[firedragon]

Do gay Christians who are in relationships with the same sex just dismiss what the Bible says about it but believe in some of the other parts of the Bible and consider themselves still a Christian? I know I dismiss parts in the Bible and I'm still a Christian.

This is Sociology of religion. This happens everywhere, in all matters, and in all religions.

That being said Gay Christians also reinterpret the Paulinian anti homosexual ideas in other ways. Some interpret it as "living in sin" that is to mean you can be gay but abstain from public expression and that is not living in sin. There are also those who reinterpret the word Arsenokoitus that Paul use to refer to homosexuals as perverts who wish to covet with men, not homosexuals per se. The problems with these ideas are many but these are also options Christians have taken.

 

[firedragon]

My own view, and not so uncommon, is that we have 'freedom' to choose, but we're never free of our own choosing mechanism, the processes of our brain by which we decide.

Thats a very interesting statement mate.

And, wholly independently of that, an omnipotent god rules out any possibility of human free will ─ it is impossible for any human to deviate, even by the width of a quark, from what God perfectly foresaw back before [he] made the universe.

That is you presuming that the omnipotent God must be a certain way but that's a presumption based on an anecdotal philosophy.