World Ceasefire- the beginning of the end of War?

[Aupmanyav]

No, I am not doing that. I believe in Baha'u'llah so I believe everything He says.
I never claimed that Allah is all-loving. He can be very wrathful when He gets angry. I would not want to get on His bad side, that's for sure, given His omnipotence and all that.

You are welcome, but others may not be as blind.
Where does your Allah torture souls which do not accept the divine mission of Bahaollah or Allah himself. Do Bahais have a hell? You have never mentioned that.

But they do not have any evidence to prove their claim to be the Mahdi or Jesus.
Baha'u'llah has evidence and it is not His vision of the Maid of Heaven, as I said before.

What evidence? Kindly enlighten.

 

[Trailblazer]

Where does your Allah torture souls which do not accept the divine mission of Bahaollah or Allah himself. Do Bahais have a hell? You have never mentioned that.

There is no place such as hell in the Baha'i Faith. Hell is simply being distant from God, so a soul who is far removed from God can be in hell in this life as well as in the afterlife.

What evidence? Kindly enlighten.

There is a lot of evidence but I cannot list it all here. What kind of evidence are you looking for?

 

[Trailblazer]

I asked for scripture...so please do not provide what is not scripture. I have no interest in William Sears.
God provided one book and he has only one "only begotten" son...Jesus Christ.

The biblical scriptures and exactly HOW they were fulfilled are in that book I linked to. William Sears, Thief in the Night

God has only one Son, but He is not literally ‘begotten’ because God does not have offspring. Baha’is believe that Jesus came into this world through the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean that God is “literally” the Father of Jesus.

John 14:2-3...
"In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be."

Where did Jesus "go home" to? His "Father's house" had "many dwelling places" and he said he was going to "prepare a place" for his disciples, and that he would return to take them "home" to be with him. His disciples were on earth, some sleeping in their graves and some who are alive when he returned would never need to sleep at all, but would be transformed into spirit beings so that they may dwell with him in the presence of God. (1 Corinthians 15:51-52) These will rule from heaven over the earth. (Revelation 21:2-4)

Many Christians try to use John 14:2-3 but they won’t work because we all know Jesus did not return while the disciples were still alive.

Moreover, “I will come again” does not mean that the Jesus will come again to earth. It cannot mean that because “I go my way and prepare a place for you” and “so that where I am you also may be" is Jesus saying He is preparing a place in heaven so that the disciples can be with Jesus in heaven, not on earth.

According to your beliefs that may be so....but it is not my belief because it argues with the Bible. The Bible is my only source of truth.
Baha'u'llah is never mentioned as one to be expected.....and when Christ was to come and render his judgments upon earth's inhabitants, it was going to mean great change in the way humans would be ruled. The wicked would be dispatched and the righteous spared through a "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:21). Man's failed rulership under influence from the devil will never be seen again. (1 John 5:19)

Every time the Glory of God is mentioned in the Old Testament in the context of the Messiah, that is referring to Baha’u’llah, because that is what Baha’u’llah means in Persian. There will be a great change in the way humans will be ruled.

Jesus is the King of God's Kingdom...what do kings do?

Jesus never claimed to be a King and Jesus never said He would have a Kingdom in THIS world, and that presents a serious problem for Christians.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Paul was used to write most of the Christian scriptures. Do you not think that if Paul was a fraud that God would know and prevent him from spreading lies about Jesus? Do you have no faith in God's ability to preserve his own word? The other apostles had God's spirit and they accepted Paul as an genuine apostle, though he was not one of the twelve.

I never said that Paul was a fraud, but he changed the course of Christianity, strayed far from the original teachings of Jesus and the original Christianity of Jesus became the new religion of Paul. Jesus never claimed religious worship for Himself and was not worshiped in the original community. By making Jesus into the risen Christ, Paul transformed the ‘Faith of Jesus’ into ‘Faith in Jesus.’ The centerpiece of Christian doctrine was that of Redemption, something of which Jesus himself knew nothing. This was the ‘Fall’ of Christianity, that Paul with his Gospel became the core of Christian dogma formation, and conquered the world, while the historic basis of Christianity was declared a heresy.

I believe that God allowed Paul to do what he did because God always honors free will. I believe that God knew it would mislead many people but God holds them responsible because they also have free will.

You'll believe Baha'u'llah who was a self proclaimed prophet, whose writings are not supported by the Bible,

Jesus was also a self proclaimed prophet since he proclaimed Himself as a Prophet:

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

But in spite of the fact that Jesus identified Himself as a Prophet, Paul and the Church claimed that Jesus was God. Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ever claim to be God, or equal to God.

So in that way Jesus was no different from Baha’u’llah. BOTH of them proclaimed themselves as Prophets.

Baha’u’llah does not need to be supported by the Bible because He received His own revelation from God.

Please tell me where Paul ever contradicted a teaching of Jesus.

It is hard to believe that you say you know the Bible so well and have studied it for 45 years and you do not know these verses:
Paul's Contradictions of Jesus

 

[Trailblazer]

God punished his ancient people for adopting the beliefs and practices of other religions....he does not speak with a forked tongue.
He has one religion that is his, and his people believe in it and practice it...it has always been that way. They have always been in the minority.

That is true, there is only one religion of God, which is revealed in various chapters that differ from age to age.

“These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 287-288

Baha’u’llah did nothing that Jesus said he would do when he returned.....and nothing has changed.....its just gotten worse. In the time time since your prophet lived, humans have worked out how to destroy all life on this planet. Something that God foresaw and will rectify in our day. (Revelation 11:18)

It would have gotten better if the kings and rulers had listened to Baha’u’llah but since they rejected Him it got worse, but it will get better during this age because that is what was prophesied in the Bible.

Jesus did not say He would do anything when He returned because Jesus said His work was finished here and He would not return.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Jesus is the Christ and the Messiah. When he speaks about his Kingdom, he is the King.
The angel Gabriel told Jesus' mother before his birth: “This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High; and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule as king over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end of his kingdom.” (Luke 1:32-33) It is very obvious that you know very little about the Bible's teachings.

Those verses say nothing about Jesus ruling on earth or having a kingdom on earth. Below is the Baha’i belief.

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

Oh good grief ....."But Jesus called them to him and said: “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them and the great men wield authority over them. 26 This must not be the way among you; but whoever wants to become great among you must be your minister, 27 and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave. 28 Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.” (Matthew 20:25-28) Jesus is the Son of man.

Baha’is would agree that Jesus gave His life for a ransom because Baha’u’llah wrote that, but there is nothing about original sin in those verses you cited. Nobody would deny that we are sinful, but that is because WE all sin, not because Adam and Eve sinned.

I have been a serious student of the Bible for over 45 years....please don't tell me what Jesus said or didn't say when it is clear that you haven't got a clue.

1 John 2:1-2
"My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. 2 And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s."

Sacrifice for our sins, nothing about ANY original sin.

Christendom has never taught the truth. Christ was raised as a spirit, not a man of flesh and blood. His "appearances" after his resurrection were in materialized form, just as angelic messengers had appeared to God's servants in the past. It was forbidden to God's people to communicate with spirits. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12) He certainly has a glorified body, but it is not the one he sacrificed....he didn't take it back.

I can agree with all of that. I believe Jesus rose as a spirit and took on a spiritual body in heaven, you can call it glorified if you want.

And you believe a prophet who had no credentials, performed no miracles, and who was a flawed human being who died from a fever.
There is nothing about him that resembles Christ in the slightest way, according to what I have read about him.

You are wrong about quite a few things there. Baha’u’llah had as many credentials as Jesus and He also performed miracles, not that it matters. Baha’u’llah was no more flawed than Jesus.

Why would He have to resemble Christ, He was a different man with a very different mission. However, if you ever read about the Bab, He resembled Christ in many ways. On this website it points out the many similarities.

The Martyrdom of the Bab and Jesus Christ

Again, your ignorance speaks....who gave the Revelation to John? Read Revelation 1:1.

That does not mean the Book of Revelation is all ABOUT Jesus.

No, I see that you are very short on Bible knowledge and ready to believe whatever it is that your prophet said....that is entirely your prerogative, but we have entered unprecedented times and the Bible gives us the explanations as to why these things are taking place, and where this is ultimately going. World peace will never come by man's efforts.

Good luck waiting for Jesus to return and do something, you can wait with all the other Christians.

People can believe anything they want to believe, but I believe what I can actually see happening, not something I believe will happen in the future. Funny thing though, all Christians are reading from the same Bible yet they all have a different idea of what the Bible gives us for explanations of the end times. This presents a logical problem because they cannot all be right since they are different.

 

[Trailblazer]

"The helper", which I already showed you from the scriptures, was the holy spirit.....not Baha’u’llah.

I believe the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that was sent by God to Baha’u’llah, thus Baha’u’llah brought the Holy Spirit to humanity.

Jesus said that 'salvation originated with the Jews', not with Muslims.

That might have been true back then, but now salvation is through Baha’u’llah, according to my beliefs.

Jesus established God's original standard for marriage long before any of your prophets were even born. So he did disobey the teachings of Jesus, which came directly from the Father.

"‘Did you not read that he who created them at the beginning made them male and female and said: “For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh”? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.’" (Matthew 19:4-6)

What does Islamic Law have to do with Jesus?

According to my beliefs, the laws of God change in every age so the laws Jesus established were not applicable in the Dispensation of Muhammad and the Islamic laws Muhammad established are now no longer applicable, because we are living in the Dispensation of Baha’u’llah.

What is comical is non-Christians telling Christians what their own Bible says. And getting it so wrong...

No, what is really comical are all the Christians who cannot AGREE on what the Bible means, and all thinking they alone know what it means. Even more comical are Christians telling Baha’is they do not know how to interpret the Bible when they cannot even figure out what it means themselves.

Of course that was to be expected since the Book was sealed up until the time of the end.

Ever since the Bible was written Christians have been shooting in the dark trying to figure out what it meant. If Christians had been able to understand what the Bible meant, they would not have had to hold councils like the Council of Nicaea to try to agree upon things like the nature of Jesus, whether he was God or a man. If Christians had been able to understand what the Bible meant Daniel would not have said this:

Daniel Chapter 12: 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

What this says is that many would run to and fro, not understanding the meaning of the Bible. The words would be closed up and sealed until the time of the end because nobody could really understand what they mean. But those that waited the 2,300 years would know….

The 2,300 years came in 1844 and the book was unsealed by the Bab and Baha’u’llah. Baha’u’llah unsealed the Bible and explained much of its formerly abstruse meanings that nobody could formerly understand.

Revelation 11:15...
"The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

You show by what you post that you have very little knowledge of the Bible, so please stop pretending that you know what it says.

I don’t know everything but I know that the seventh angel refers to Baha’u’llah and I know that because these verses in Revelations were interpreted by Abdu’l-Baha:

“The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.” (Rev. 11:14) The first woe is the appearance of the Prophet, Muḥammad, the son of ‘Abdu’lláh—peace be upon Him! The second woe is that of the Báb—to Him be glory and praise! The third woe is the great day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts and the radiance of the Beauty of the Promised One. The explanation of this subject, woe, is mentioned in the thirtieth chapter of Ezekiel, where it is said: “The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near.” (Ez. 30:1–3)

Therefore, it is certain that the day of woe is the day of the Lord; for in that day woe is for the neglectful, woe is for the sinners, woe is for the ignorant. That is why it is said, “The second woe is past; behold the third woe cometh quickly!” This third woe is the day of the manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh, the day of God; and it is near to the day of the appearance of the Báb.

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.” (Rev. 11:15)

The seventh angel is a man qualified with heavenly attributes, who will arise with heavenly qualities and character. Voices will be raised, so that the appearance of the Divine Manifestation will be proclaimed and diffused. In the day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts, and at the epoch of the divine cycle of the Omnipotent which is promised and mentioned in all the books and writings of the Prophets—in that day of God, the Spiritual and Divine Kingdom will be established, and the world will be renewed…..”
Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, pp. 56-57​

 

[Aupmanyav]

Sometimes, such as in this case quoting a primary and direct source isn't circular. It should be like telling someone thier answer to a positionoof AA is circular because they cited AA literature.

Read Buddha's 'Kesamutti Sukta' (Kalama Sutta, the original Ocham's razor) here: Kesamutti Sutta - Wikipedia
There is no primary or direct source. All information should be checked.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is no place such as hell in the Baha'i Faith. Hell is simply being distant from God, so a soul who is far removed from God can be in hell in this life as well as in the afterlife.

There is a lot of evidence but I cannot list it all here. What kind of evidence are you looking for?

Bahaollah said "Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing!" I am far removed from any God or Allah, but that is no terrible punishing. I am perfectly happy the way I am. If your Allah's punishing is so terrible; there must be a place where it will be done, there must be his agents who would do the job at Allah's behest (or does he do it himself?), and there must be instruments with which Allah will punish me. What did your 19th Century Iranian preacher say about that?

Anything, which stands to logic.

 

[CG Didymus]

The fact Jesus body has not been found does not mean it did not decompose like every other human body. Science proves this. I believe the interpretation of the Bible by some verges on fantasy and superstition and that in reality it is the Christ Spirit that lives on in the hearts and minds of people not His body.

It was part of the Messianic prophesies that his body would not see decay. He was in his tomb for three days and nights, before his resurrection. His tomb was empty, not because someone took his body, but because it had been sacrificed for mankind. He was raised as a spirit in order to return to heaven.
Acts 13:32-37...
"And we preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers, 33 that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘You are My Son; today i have begotten You.’ 34 As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.’ 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm, ‘You will not allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.’ 36 For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent decay; 37 but He whom God raised did not undergo decay." (NASB. Psalm 16:10)

Loverofhumanity In today's world of course it sounds like fantasy. That why there's so many atheists. But... that is what the Bible says happened. It is not made up by the churches out of thin air. It was what the disciples of Jesus say happened.

What the Baha'i Faith says makes much more sense for us today. That Jesus died and his spirit rose. But how is that special? Baha'is believe everybody's spirit rises. The problem I have with the Baha'i interpretation, that of Abdul Baha, is that it makes the report of four gospels writers a work of fiction. Baha'is then come back and say that no... it is true but in a symbolic sense. Then I say why did the writers make it sound like it was a true, historical event? I do not blame Christians for believing what their Scriptures clearly and plainly say. If it is not true, then I blame God for "inspiring" misinformation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Read Buddha's 'Kesamutti Sukta' (Kalama Sutta, the original Ocham's razor) here: Kesamutti Sutta - Wikipedia
There is no primary or direct source. All information should be checked.

Which is problematic because then how can we verify that is what the primary source.

 

[CG Didymus]

According to Daniel's prophesies, the Kingdom of God is a theocratic government that will overthrow all corrupt earthly kingdoms and crush them out of existence......the kingdom of God will then replace failed human rulership with God's rulership over this earth as he intended all along. (Daniel 2:44) Not only will he accomplish that but I believe that the events on earth at present are indicating that this event is not far away. This is the final part of the last days of this present system of things. Jesus taught us to pray for this Kingdom to "come" so that God's will can be "done on earth as it is in heaven".

the very same thing is the Christ has always been going to return after the first of all he was going to return the second or well while he was going to return the tsunami the financial crisis and World trade Centre all the time the church is just keep saying he's going to return his going to return and I'll keep saying he's going to return forever because they don't want to lose their followers when he does return because when he doesn't turn there's every indication that he's going to set up his own kingdom and not appoint the people who have received his faith now

The problem is that God over-promised. The wolf will lay down with a lamb? Yeah, and eat it. Revelation paints a rosy picture of a New Jerusalem and all is good and holy. It talks of Satan bring bound for a thousand years then released and then done away with. Most Christians believe Satan is real. Baha's don't. Christians believe bad things happen and just when it doesn't seem like anybody is going to be able to survive the terrible calamities, then... Jesus returns.

Baha'is say "Jesus" has already come and gone and left a blueprint of how people can set up a peaceful and unified world. Will people be perfect? No, and since in a Baha'i world there will still be police and a military to put down anybody that rises up to threaten the peace, I don't think Baha'is expect that the world is going to be in a perfect peace. Baha'is say the world government will be secular. Then for sure, it won't be perfect. Why would they follow the guidelines of one of the world's religions? The Baha'i Faith? Why would they follow the rules of any religion? Or, if the Baha'i Faith is the truth, and it becomes apparent to all, why wouldn't the people of the world all join and allow the Baha'i Faith to make the Baha'i laws the laws of the land... and give them the power to enforce them?

Me and Old Badger have a lot of questions about that. Will greed disappear? Will there be different levels of wealth and poverty? Yes, Baha'is say that the extremes of wealth and poverty should be done away with. But, then the new level of wealth, and the new level of poverty, becomes the new extreme. Will the rich be happy with what they have? Or, will they want more? Will the new poor be happy with what they have, or will they want more? Will the rich turn to "white-collar" crime and the poor to robbing and stealing to get a little more than what they can get by working?

Will drugs, alcohol, and pornography vanish? Not if there is money to be made and people that still want those things. In the Christian model, all the evil people and cast into a lake of fire along with the devil. In a Baha'i world what? The unholy, lustful, greedy people all of a sudden get spiritual? How will that happen? Will it become so obvious that God is real that no one will want to break his rules? Then why didn't God do that in the first place?

Some Baha'is, and probably Christians too, say that God gave people freewill so that they'd come to God on their own. Yeah, lots of people have come to God and religions... and they all believe and teach different things. So people, according to the Baha'is, couldn't keep the "pure", "original" message right. They corrupted it and added their own ideas in. So people, with their own study and evaluating, come to conclusions about what is the truth about God and religion... and most all believe that theirs is true and all others are wrong... even Baha'is don't believe in any of the other religions as being absolute true, because Baha'is say they have those added in man-made beliefs, plus, they have misinterpreted their own Scriptures. Again, why did God not make his Scriptures more clear? Why did he trust people to preserve them? But the Jews say they did preserve them. That they made sure they were copied precisely. Yet, the Baha's say that they changed the story about Abraham and which son he took to get sacrificed.

So why should anyone trust religions? Why should anyone trust the leaders of any religion? Yet now, the people of the world are expected to trust that God sent a new messenger and we can all trust him. Trust him when he says that you can't believe what the Bible says. But, to trust him when he tells us what the Bible really meant. Sure, you might be right and Deeje might be right. Or, maybe some other religion... or none of them. We'll just keep going with vague religious beliefs that will always fit in to what is happening at the moment and make it seem like the end is near. And more prophets will come and tell us what we should be doing and how we got it wrong.

 

[CG Didymus]

There is no place such as hell in the Baha'i Faith. Hell is simply being distant from God, so a soul who is far removed from God can be in hell in this life as well as in the afterlife.

Bahaollah said "Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing!" I am far removed from any God or Allah, but that is no terrible punishing. I am perfectly happy the way I am. If your Allah's punishing is so terrible; there must be a place where it will be done, there must be his agents who would do the job at Allah's behest (or does he do it himself?), and there must be instruments with which Allah will punish me. What did your 19th Century Iranian preacher say about that?

Far from God? The Christian hell is far from God too. Is it hot there? Is everyone else at the swimming hole or the beach, but the bad kids had to stay home in the heat and do chores? If hell is not real, then again, "God's" word is misleading and was probably written by religious leaders to scare the people into doing good and to listen to and obey "God's" rules. Why trust what this new message from God is, if he can't even keep his story straight?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Which is problematic because then how can we verify that is what the primary source.

Whether primary or secondary, check all information (from whatever source).

Why trust what this new message from God is, if he can't even keep his story straight?

Tell me a straight story.

 

[Trailblazer]

Bahaollah said "Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing!" I am far removed from any God or Allah, but that is no terrible punishing. I am perfectly happy the way I am. If your Allah's punishing is so terrible; there must be a place where it will be done, there must be his agents who would do the job at Allah's behest (or does he do it himself?), and there must be instruments with which Allah will punish me. What did your 19th Century Iranian preacher say about that?

I am happy you are happy, it sounds like you are on the right track.
I am not very close to Allah either, so I do not know where I will end up

What you said makes sense. If God is terrible at punishing, there has to be a way to punish people, but Baha'u'llah did not say anything specific about that. He left it to our imagination. He did say one thing though, indicating we would not want to know what hell is like, and He said that is one reason why He did not reveal more about the afterlife:

“Know thou that every hearing ear, if kept pure and undefiled, must, at all times and from every direction, hearken to the voice that uttereth these holy words: “Verily, we are God’s, and to Him shall we return.” The mysteries of man’s physical death and of his return have not been divulged, and still remain unread. By the righteousness of God! Were they to be revealed, they would evoke such fear and sorrow that some would perish, while others would be so filled with gladness as to wish for death, and beseech, with unceasing longing, the one true God—exalted be His glory—to hasten their end.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 345

 

[Trailblazer]

Me and Old Badger have a lot of questions about that. Will greed disappear? Will there be different levels of wealth and poverty? Yes, Baha'is say that the extremes of wealth and poverty should be done away with. But, then the new level of wealth, and the new level of poverty, becomes the new extreme. Will the rich be happy with what they have? Or, will they want more? Will the new poor be happy with what they have, or will they want more? Will the rich turn to "white-collar" crime and the poor to robbing and stealing to get a little more than what they can get by working?

Why think about the future? The future is not here yet. Only God knows the future, the Baha'is do not know it.
We simply have the predictions of Baha'u'llah and a vision. How it will unfold we do not know.

 

[Trailblazer]

Far from God? The Christian hell is far from God too. Is it hot there? Is everyone else at the swimming hole or the beach, but the bad kids had to stay home in the heat and do chores? If hell is not real, then again, "God's" word is misleading and was probably written by religious leaders to scare the people into doing good and to listen to and obey "God's" rules. Why trust what this new message from God is, if he can't even keep his story straight?

I do believe that what was written in the Bible about hell was written to scare people, and what Baha'u'llah wrote might have that same intention, but it is for our own good because most people won't give up all their worldly desires unless they think they have to, or else.

 

[Milton Platt]

In recent developments due to the corona virus, world leaders are on the verge of calling for a world ceasefire. So that monies can be spent on the health and well being of people.

Is this virus leading us and the world to establish world peace and rid the world finally of the curse and expense of war?


I believe peace is inevitable but I never imagined such a tiny virus to be the catalyst to push the world towards peace. With funding and economies strained and stressed it makes all the sense in the world that governments can no longer afford wars and an arms race when their populations are stricken with illness and they need monies for medicines and the well being of people.


Amanpour and Company | UN Secretary-General Calls for Global Ceasefire | Season 2020

World unity and peace - the beginning?

Overly optimistic and naive???????

 

[Deeje]

The problem is that God over-promised. The wolf will lay down with a lamb? Yeah, and eat it. Revelation paints a rosy picture of a New Jerusalem and all is good and holy. It talks of Satan bring bound for a thousand years then released and then done away with. Most Christians believe Satan is real. Baha's don't. Christians believe bad things happen and just when it doesn't seem like anybody is going to be able to survive the terrible calamities, then... Jesus returns.

Baha'is say "Jesus" has already come and gone and left a blueprint of how people can set up a peaceful and unified world. Will people be perfect? No, and since in a Baha'i world there will still be police and a military to put down anybody that rises up to threaten the peace, I don't think Baha'is expect that the world is going to be in a perfect peace. Baha'is say the world government will be secular. Then for sure, it won't be perfect. Why would they follow the guidelines of one of the world's religions? The Baha'i Faith? Why would they follow the rules of any religion? Or, if the Baha'i Faith is the truth, and it becomes apparent to all, why wouldn't the people of the world all join and allow the Baha'i Faith to make the Baha'i laws the laws of the land... and give them the power to enforce them?

Me and Old Badger have a lot of questions about that. Will greed disappear? Will there be different levels of wealth and poverty? Yes, Baha'is say that the extremes of wealth and poverty should be done away with. But, then the new level of wealth, and the new level of poverty, becomes the new extreme. Will the rich be happy with what they have? Or, will they want more? Will the new poor be happy with what they have, or will they want more? Will the rich turn to "white-collar" crime and the poor to robbing and stealing to get a little more than what they can get by working?

Will drugs, alcohol, and pornography vanish? Not if there is money to be made and people that still want those things. In the Christian model, all the evil people and cast into a lake of fire along with the devil. In a Baha'i world what? The unholy, lustful, greedy people all of a sudden get spiritual? How will that happen? Will it become so obvious that God is real that no one will want to break his rules? Then why didn't God do that in the first place?

Some Baha'is, and probably Christians too, say that God gave people freewill so that they'd come to God on their own. Yeah, lots of people have come to God and religions... and they all believe and teach different things. So people, according to the Baha'is, couldn't keep the "pure", "original" message right. They corrupted it and added their own ideas in. So people, with their own study and evaluating, come to conclusions about what is the truth about God and religion... and most all believe that theirs is true and all others are wrong... even Baha'is don't believe in any of the other religions as being absolute true, because Baha'is say they have those added in man-made beliefs, plus, they have misinterpreted their own Scriptures. Again, why did God not make his Scriptures more clear? Why did he trust people to preserve them? But the Jews say they did preserve them. That they made sure they were copied precisely. Yet, the Baha's say that they changed the story about Abraham and which son he took to get sacrificed.

So why should anyone trust religions? Why should anyone trust the leaders of any religion? Yet now, the people of the world are expected to trust that God sent a new messenger and we can all trust him. Trust him when he says that you can't believe what the Bible says. But, to trust him when he tells us what the Bible really meant. Sure, you might be right and Deeje might be right. Or, maybe some other religion... or none of them. We'll just keep going with vague religious beliefs that will always fit in to what is happening at the moment and make it seem like the end is near. And more prophets will come and tell us what we should be doing and how we got it wrong.

You raise some very valid points here.....the track record of humans is not inspiring any of us with confidence, if humanity remains the same.....that will simply mean more of the same conduct that created our history. And if "control" is necessary then you have nothing more than totalitarian rulership. How is that something to look forward to?

The Bible is my guide so my belief in it is absolute. I believe that its author is the Creator of all things who did not leave us in the dark as to his intentions or the reasons for his past actions.

There are a couple of scriptures that help explain things.....

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12....
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

This to me says that God allows us all to exercise our free will to choose who or what we will believe, based on what is in our hearts. If our beliefs are our own (satanically inspired) and not from God, he will allow the delusion that these ones have chosen because they have no love for the truth.....they want to invent their own. God will not stop them from making their own decisions.

Acts 14:
"In past generations he permitted all the nations to go on in their ways, 17 although he did not leave himself without witness in that he did good, giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying you with food and filling your hearts with gladness."

He has not brought the wicked to an accounting as yet because it is not the time. He has permitted humanity to "fill the earth" as he mandated in the beginning, and in doing so he has allowed all humans to make their own decisions and in turn to make a name for themselves with God (or not).

The "book of life" began to be written with Abel, and everyone whose name is in it will be given life after God brings this wicked world to an accounting. Even those who did not get to know God in the past will be raised to life and given opportunity to get to know him. (John 5:28-29)

The object lesson began after humans decided to obey a pretender who had to lie to them to get them offside with their God. Once he separated them from their Creator, they were his to do with as he wished, but God was always overseeing things.

The issues raised in the garden of Eden about God's Sovereignty had to be settled once and for all time, so they could never be raised again. With lessons learned, destinies determined, and precedents set, all will then return to God's original purpose for this earth and for humans upon it. Free will is retained as the gift God meant it to be...and God's will is "done on earth as it is in heaven".

That is how we see things....

 

[Aupmanyav]

The mysteries of man’s physical death and of his return have not been divulged, and still remain unread. By the righteousness of God! Were they to be revealed, they would evoke such fear and sorrow that some would perish, while others would be so filled with gladness as to wish for death, and beseech, with unceasing longing, the one true God - exalted be His glory - to hasten their end.”

What balderdash! There are no mysteries involved in physical death of a human being. Bahaollah was creature of his time and place - Iran in 19th Century under the Qajar rulers. He knew nothing of modern biology (other than what may have percolated in his time to his level).

Naser al-Din Shah Qajar, Zell'ollah (Shadow of God - on earth), Qebleh-ye 'ālam (Pivot of the Universe), Islampanah (Refuge of Islam), Shah of Persia (1831 – 1896)
He was the longest ruling Qajar Emperor.

 

[Trailblazer]

What balderdash! There are no mysteries involved in physical death of a human being.

That is true, physical death is no mystery, but the return to God is a mystery.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That too is no mystery, since there is no God or Allah. Superstitions.