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World Ceasefire- the beginning of the end of War?

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
In recent developments due to the corona virus, world leaders are on the verge of calling for a world ceasefire. So that monies can be spent on the health and well being of people.

Is this virus leading us and the world to establish world peace and rid the world finally of the curse and expense of war?


I believe peace is inevitable but I never imagined such a tiny virus to be the catalyst to push the world towards peace. With funding and economies strained and stressed it makes all the sense in the world that governments can no longer afford wars and an arms race when their populations are stricken with illness and they need monies for medicines and the well being of people.


Amanpour and Company | UN Secretary-General Calls for Global Ceasefire | Season 2020

World unity and peace - the beginning?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The era we're living in has been called the "long peace" because of the relative lack of destructive wars. Of course in absolute terms we're still seeing fighting, but the level of killing due to war is much less than it was in the past. The glorification of war on the part of many nations does not exist any longer in spite of fanatics promoting it.

A single political voice, however noble and well-intentioned can't move the world but I do agree that the pandemic's effects will help in that direction.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
War and Peace

upload_2020-4-15_19-19-52.png
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The era we're living in has been called the "long peace" because of the relative lack of destructive wars. Of course in absolute terms we're still seeing fighting, but the level of killing due to war is much less than it was in the past. The glorification of war on the part of many nations does not exist any longer in spite of fanatics promoting it.

A single political voice, however noble and well-intentioned can't move the world but I do agree that the pandemic's effects will help in that direction.

My understanding is not just war here but the massive expense of upkeep of military budgets is stretching economies especially now they need humanitarian and medical supplies. An end to war and preparation for war would see massive amounts of resources being able to be dedicated to people’s well being instead.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member

it’s not just about the deaths but especially at this time - the expense and burden on economies even rich democracies of having to heal their people as well as upkeep their arms race and military in preparation for a future war.

Thr virus is making war too much of a financial burden to continue. Not real world peace but there may be no other choice as peace is much, much cheaper.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
My understanding is not just war here but the massive expense of upkeep of military budgets is stretching economies especially now they need humanitarian and medical supplies. An end to war and preparation for war would see massive amounts of resources being able to be dedicated to people’s well being instead.
That's true especially for the major nations like the USA.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
In recent developments due to the corona virus, world leaders are on the verge of calling for a world ceasefire. So that monies can be spent on the health and well being of people.

Is this virus leading us and the world to establish world peace and rid the world finally of the curse and expense of war?


I believe peace is inevitable but I never imagined such a tiny virus to be the catalyst to push the world towards peace. With funding and economies strained and stressed it makes all the sense in the world that governments can no longer afford wars and an arms race when their populations are stricken with illness and they need monies for medicines and the well being of people.


Amanpour and Company | UN Secretary-General Calls for Global Ceasefire | Season 2020

World unity and peace - the beginning?

The Bible indicates that there will be an international cry of "Peace and Security" just before the foretold end of the present world order....

So I do not believe that any man-made ceasefire is going to stop what is coming.

The apostle Paul warned...1 Thessalonians 5:1-6....
"Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. 4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves, 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.

6 So, then, let us not sleep on as the rest do, but let us stay awake and keep our senses."


We expect an empty and hollow announcement of "peace and security" but it will be followed by utter chaos as the greatest tribulation in mankind's history grips the world. (Matthew 24:21) This was foretold in Daniel 12:1. (some 500 years before Jesus was born) Jesus also warned that his return would see a situation, "just like the days of Noah" when wickedness and immorality abounded before God stepped in an rectified the situation with a global flood.
Noah preached righteousness to the people and warned them of God's intentions, but nobody listened. (Matthew 24:37-39)

We are not to be fooled by any human efforts to bring about 'peace and security' to this fallen world. God's Kingdom will "come" without any human intervention. Jesus and his angelic forces will dispatch all who fail to 'do the will of the Father". (Matthew 7:21-23) Then a "new heaven" (ruling authority) and a "new earth" (new earthly society of obedient ones) will inherit everlasting life as God purposed in the beginning...right here on earth. (2 Peter 3:13)

That is how I understand the scriptures.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
it’s not just about the deaths but especially at this time - the expense and burden on economies even rich democracies of having to heal their people as well as upkeep their arms race and military in preparation for a future war.

Thr virus is making war too much of a financial burden to continue. Not real world peace but there may be no other choice as peace is much, much cheaper.

upload_2020-4-15_20-2-50.png
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The Bible indicates that there will be an international cry of "Peace and Security" just before the foretold end of the present world order....

So I do not believe that any man-made ceasefire is going to stop what is coming.

The apostle Paul warned...1 Thessalonians 5:1-6....
"Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. 4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves, 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.

6 So, then, let us not sleep on as the rest do, but let us stay awake and keep our senses."


We expect an empty and hollow announcement of "peace and security" but it will be followed by utter chaos as the greatest tribulation in mankind's history grips the world. (Matthew 24:21) This was foretold in Daniel 12:1. (some 500 years before Jesus was born) Jesus also warned that his return would see a situation, "just like the days of Noah" when wickedness and immorality abounded before God stepped in an rectified the situation with a global flood.
Noah preached righteousness to the people and warned them of God's intentions, but nobody listened. (Matthew 24:37-39)

We are not to be fooled by any human efforts to bring about 'peace and security' to this fallen world. God's Kingdom will "come" without any human intervention. Jesus and his angelic forces will dispatch all who fail to 'do the will of the Father". (Matthew 7:21-23) Then a "new heaven" (ruling authority) and a "new earth" (new earthly society of obedient ones) will inherit everlasting life as God purposed in the beginning...right here on earth. (2 Peter 3:13)

That is how I understand the scriptures.

The flood came after Noah not before. Christ already has come I believe in the Glory of the Father, Baha’u’llah. Now after the world has turned a blind eye to Him comes the flood as in the days of Noah.

Where Christians have made a major miscalculation I believe is that they have misinterpreted ‘everything eye shall see Him’ to mean physical eyesight whereas Christ counselled His followers to ‘watch and pray ‘. There would be no need to ‘watch’ if He was to physically appear on the clouds in the sky for everyone would see Him- unless He meant spiritual insight.

Christ often spoke in symbols. When He said ‘Let the dead bury the dead’ He didn’t mean that dead bodies should bury the deceased but that those who are dead in faith should do so. Otherwise the passage has no meaning.

With the Second Coming I believe it is the same. While Christians continue to believe He will descend on physical clouds from the physical sky He will never return for them because it will never happen. He said to watch which in my understanding is to watch for the appearance of a great spiritual being with great wisdom and great knowledge and that would be the Father, the return of Jesus. Which I believe to be Baha’u’llah.


We believe there will be two kinds of peace one will be the peace established by people, a political peace and then there will be the most great peace which will be a peace which unites the hearts and minds of men in belief in God.

I believe what we are witnessing now is the beginning of the flood as in the days of Noah because the return of Christ, Baha’u’llah, has been rejected by the masses.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The graph can be very misleading as it shows a drop but in real $ I think over.a number of years world wide it amounts to $trillions and $trillions of $ which would be enough to set up a Medicare system worldwide as well as free universal education and likely world employment.


There would even be sufficient funds I believe to clean the oceans. That is just my opinion but the monies spent on war collectively would change our world for the better.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The flood came after Noah not before. Christ already has come I believe in the Glory of the Father, Baha’u’llah. Now after the world has turned a blind eye to Him comes the flood as in the days of Noah.

That is not how the Bible tells it. Nor is anyone with an unpronounceable name prophesied to be "Christ returned". It beggars belief to me that anyone can acknowledge a prophet just on his say so. Baha’u’llah is no one to anyone but Baha'i's. He in no way scripturally represents the second coming of the Messiah for many reasons.

1) He had no credentials....nothing to demonstrate his claims. He didn't perform miracles nor did he institute the blessings of the Kingdom as Jesus promised he would on his return. (Revelation 21:2-4)

2) The wicked are still with us, death still takes lives and human suffering has not ceased... and Jesus said he was going to dispatch the wicked along with his angelic forces at the end of this age. (Matthew 13:36-43) Nothing Jesus predicted with his return has seen fulfillment with Baha’u’llah....most people have no idea how to even pronounce his name. (including me)

3) Baha’u’llah died of disease. Jesus Christ was a perfect human who would never have succumbed to illness or death by natural causes. He was not the son of humans but the Son of God, whose life was miraculously produced so that he would not inherit the sin of Adam. If you understand the ransom as it is explained in the Bible, you will see how absurd it is to think of a sinful human as the returned Christ....no matter how wise his words may seem.

4) Baha’u’llah was hailed as a prophet by men because they believed him and when he died they gave him an ornate burial tomb.....where is Jesus' burial tomb?

5) None of the prophesies concerning Messiah's return have been fulfilled in all these years after Baha’u’llah's death.....in fact the world has gotten progressively worse.

Where Christians have made a major miscalculation I believe is that they have misinterpreted ‘everything eye shall see Him’ to mean physical eyesight whereas Christ counselled His followers to ‘watch and pray ‘. There would be no need to ‘watch’ if He was to physically appear on the clouds in the sky for everyone would see Him- unless He meant spiritual insight.

Spiritual insight is essential to discern the return of Christ....Jesus gave a "sign" of his "presence" NOT of his "coming".
Christ's return was to be heralded by the world events that he foretold at Matthew 24:3-14. It was a time period in which all of the signs would be seen within a generation. We have seen them all.

First...there was to be unprecedented warfare, like we saw in 1914 with the outbreak of the world's first global conflict, in which all nations were forced through their alliances to participate. It came about when no one was expecting it. The assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand in Sarajevo came to be called "the shot that was heard around the world" because of the ramifications of that one act of violence. It triggered a domino effect that plunged the whole world into war that nobody saw coming.

Then there were food shortages caused by the war, and the outbreak of a pandemic called "the Spanish Flu" that took more lives than the war did. There were great earthquakes and people claiming to be the returned Christ, but were false prophets.

There was to be an increase in lawlessness and as a consequence, the love that people once practiced for their neighbors and towards one another, was to disappear along with trust.....there are so many scammers and liars about that you really can't trust anyone anymore. Institutions that people once trusted have now been exposed as ripping us off for decades. The underbelly of this world is a cess pit of corruption. God promised to expose it at the time of the end. (2 Peter 3:10)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Continued...
Christ often spoke in symbols. When He said ‘Let the dead bury the dead’ He didn’t mean that dead bodies should bury the deceased but that those who are dead in faith should do so. Otherwise the passage has no meaning.

Agreed. Those who are spiritually dead can bury their own. But we should be careful about how we apply other symbolisms...like e.g. the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, claimed by some to prove the existence of heaven and hell.....it was no such thing. It had nothing to do with the existence of heaven and hell. It was a contrast between the Pharisees and their position and the "lost sheep" to whom Jesus was sent. They changed places with those who accepted Christ now in the favored position with God.

With the Second Coming I believe it is the same. While Christians continue to believe He will descend on physical clouds from the physical sky He will never return for them because it will never happen. He said to watch which in my understanding is to watch for the appearance of a great spiritual being with great wisdom and great knowledge and that would be the Father, the return of Jesus. Which I believe to be Baha’u’llah.

For me as a serious Bible student, Baha’u’llah is just another claimed prophet like Joseph Smith.....according to the Bible, God's last prophet was Jesus Christ.....there was no one to come after him and the one who was to return said that 'the world would see him no more'....meaning that he would never be seen as a human again. This is where Baha’u’llah fails big time IMO. There is no way in my understanding of scripture, that he could be Christ returned.

I believe that this passage of scripture is very misinterpreted by Baha'i's.....
John 14:15-20....
"If you love me, you will observe my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you. 18 I will not leave you bereaved. I am coming to you. 19 In a little while the world will see me no more, but you will see me, because I live and you will live. 20 In that day you will know that I am in union with my Father and you are in union with me and I am in union with you."

The "spirit of the truth" was God's holy spirit, not a human, as it says in verse 25-26...
"I have spoken these things to you while I am still with you. 26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you."

We believe there will be two kinds of peace one will be the peace established by people, a political peace and then there will be the most great peace which will be a peace which unites the hearts and minds of men in belief in God.

Political power is what humans assume to control their various portions of the world....but the old saying is true..."Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Man's rule has never succeeded and will never succeed. Man is designed to be ruled by his Creator and once Christ establishes his kingdom over this earth, there will never be political nations again. We are designed to be one race (the human race) and the planet was never meant to be divided up for humans to fight over. This is God's earth and he designed us to be its caretakers. We have done a lousy job because we thought we could do better on our own. Look at the mess we have made!

I believe what we are witnessing now is the beginning of the flood as in the days of Noah because the return of Christ, Baha’u’llah, has been rejected by the masses.

Baha’u’llah was a mere mortal, subject to the vagaries that all of us sinful humans display every day. Jesus was not a mere mortal but a perfect human specimen, without sin and not subject to sickness or death. He was 33 years old at his death, but if he had gone on living, he would not have aged, succumbed to sickness, or died. This was the prospect set before all humans in the garden of Eden. The "tree of life" was there in the garden to guarantee that mortals would live forever. (Genesis 3:22-24) There was no 'natural' cause of death in the beginning and this is the reason why it is so hard to accept....we are simply not programmed for it.
This is why we still treat death as an feared enemy.....if it took us all to heaven, as some Christians believe, it would be our friend. Grieving would be replaced by rejoicing.....but it never is.

This is how I understand my scripture and why Baha’u’llah means nothing to me....
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
He in no way scripturally represents the second coming of the Messiah for many reasons.
Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the prophecies for the return of Christ and the coming of the Messiah promised in the Old Testament. Jesus cannot now come and re-fulfill them because it's already been done. Besides, Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. I have repeatedly asked Christians to post me any verses where Jesus (not Paul) says "I am going to return to earth" and not one such verse has ever been provided. Instead what we have are the following:

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Baha’u’llah was a mere mortal, subject to the vagaries that all of us sinful humans display every day. Jesus was not a mere mortal but a perfect human specimen, without sin and not subject to sickness or death. He was 33 years old at his death, but if he had gone on living, he would not have aged, succumbed to sickness, or died.
Do you have any proof of that or is it simply a belief?

As a Baha'i, I believe that Jesus and Baha'u'llah shared the same nature, both were divine and human, and both were Manifestations of God, neither one "better" than the other. Of course, this is just a belief and I can no more prove it is true than you can prove your belief is true. All we have is evidence so it is simply a matter of who has the best evidence.
 

Agent

Member
matt 24 [37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
World unity and peace - the beginning?
Putin laughs at the idea. If anyone around him has something he wants and they buy in to that, it'll probably end like Georgia during the Olympics. When it comes to sectarian conflicts, very edgy, maybe, maybe not, I can see many using it as opportunity for slaughter. Or traps and ambushes.
We are animals. Nothing more. Nothing less. An animal with a tendency for violence. It's a cute gesture, but the gestures to secure the necessary trust to actually do that is going to be a very difficult and very fragile thing to establish.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the prophecies for the return of Christ and the coming of the Messiah promised in the Old Testament. Jesus cannot now come and re-fulfill them because it's already been done. Besides, Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament.
Trailblazer, can you not write even one paragraph without contradictions? First you say that your Bahaollah fulfilled all the prophecies for the return of Jesus. But for Bahais, Bab was the returning Jesus. In the next sentence you say that Jesus never promised to return and you have checked it with many Christians. So, what prophecies did Bab or Bahaollah fulfill if there were no promises to return to start with? What did that 19th Century Iranian preacher tell his followers or how did his son and great grandson explain it? You yourself are confused and you make others confused.
Do you have any proof of that or is it simply a belief?
As a Baha'i, I believe that Jesus and Baha'u'llah shared the same nature, both were divine and human, and both were Manifestations of God, neither one "better" than the other. Of course, this is just a belief and I can no more prove it is true than you can prove your belief is true. All we have is evidence so it is simply a matter of who has the best evidence.
Can you prove it? Can Deeje prove it? No, no theist can prove anything, whether Trailblazer or Deeje. What you have are just your beliefs. What evidence are you talking about that Jesus does not have and Bahaollah has? The vision of the 'Maid of Heaven'?
 
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