World Ceasefire- the beginning of the end of War?

[Trailblazer]

New That too is no mystery, since there is no God or Allah.

Maybe or maybe not.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I think with communications and international travel that a new age has dawned where world peace and world unity have become possible because I believe Christ has already returned, as one of the signs was that knowledge would be increased dramatically which it has. I think with communications and international travel that a new age has dawned where world peace and world unity have physically become possible because I believe Christ has already returned in the Glory of the Father with of course His New Name as promised to His followers in the Book of Revelation.

A quick read of Revelation shows dozens of things that haven't yet preceded Jesus's Return, though...

 

[Trailblazer]

A quick read of Revelation shows dozens of things that haven't yet preceded Jesus's Return, though...

That presumes that you have interpreted Revelation correctly....
Just sayin' ......

 

[loverofhumanity]

A quick read of Revelation shows dozens of things that haven't yet preceded Jesus's Return, though...

There are many mysteries in Revelation which most cannot unravel but when Christ returned and I absolutely believe He did, He unravelled many of the most abstruse ones. did you know that one of the chapters of the book of revelation talks about Islam and the history of Islam and even mentions Muhammad, the 12 Imams and the Caliphs?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Overly optimistic and naive???????

I wouldn't rush to judgement on this matter but instead suggest waiting and seeing what happens.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The problem is that God over-promised. The wolf will lay down with a lamb? Yeah, and eat it. Revelation paints a rosy picture of a New Jerusalem and all is good and holy. It talks of Satan bring bound for a thousand years then released and then done away with. Most Christians believe Satan is real. Baha's don't. Christians believe bad things happen and just when it doesn't seem like anybody is going to be able to survive the terrible calamities, then... Jesus returns.

Baha'is say "Jesus" has already come and gone and left a blueprint of how people can set up a peaceful and unified world. Will people be perfect? No, and since in a Baha'i world there will still be police and a military to put down anybody that rises up to threaten the peace, I don't think Baha'is expect that the world is going to be in a perfect peace. Baha'is say the world government will be secular. Then for sure, it won't be perfect. Why would they follow the guidelines of one of the world's religions? The Baha'i Faith? Why would they follow the rules of any religion? Or, if the Baha'i Faith is the truth, and it becomes apparent to all, why wouldn't the people of the world all join and allow the Baha'i Faith to make the Baha'i laws the laws of the land... and give them the power to enforce them?

Me and Old Badger have a lot of questions about that. Will greed disappear? Will there be different levels of wealth and poverty? Yes, Baha'is say that the extremes of wealth and poverty should be done away with. But, then the new level of wealth, and the new level of poverty, becomes the new extreme. Will the rich be happy with what they have? Or, will they want more? Will the new poor be happy with what they have, or will they want more? Will the rich turn to "white-collar" crime and the poor to robbing and stealing to get a little more than what they can get by working?

Will drugs, alcohol, and pornography vanish? Not if there is money to be made and people that still want those things. In the Christian model, all the evil people and cast into a lake of fire along with the devil. In a Baha'i world what? The unholy, lustful, greedy people all of a sudden get spiritual? How will that happen? Will it become so obvious that God is real that no one will want to break his rules? Then why didn't God do that in the first place?

Some Baha'is, and probably Christians too, say that God gave people freewill so that they'd come to God on their own. Yeah, lots of people have come to God and religions... and they all believe and teach different things. So people, according to the Baha'is, couldn't keep the "pure", "original" message right. They corrupted it and added their own ideas in. So people, with their own study and evaluating, come to conclusions about what is the truth about God and religion... and most all believe that theirs is true and all others are wrong... even Baha'is don't believe in any of the other religions as being absolute true, because Baha'is say they have those added in man-made beliefs, plus, they have misinterpreted their own Scriptures. Again, why did God not make his Scriptures more clear? Why did he trust people to preserve them? But the Jews say they did preserve them. That they made sure they were copied precisely. Yet, the Baha's say that they changed the story about Abraham and which son he took to get sacrificed.

So why should anyone trust religions? Why should anyone trust the leaders of any religion? Yet now, the people of the world are expected to trust that God sent a new messenger and we can all trust him. Trust him when he says that you can't believe what the Bible says. But, to trust him when he tells us what the Bible really meant. Sure, you might be right and Deeje might be right. Or, maybe some other religion... or none of them. We'll just keep going with vague religious beliefs that will always fit in to what is happening at the moment and make it seem like the end is near. And more prophets will come and tell us what we should be doing and how we got it wrong.

Hi CG. I don't know and can't say how things are going to turn out. it really depends upon how much mankind spiritually evolves and how slow or quick it evolves. the prophets and prophecies all they promise is that one day we will reach the maturity where a lot of these beautiful things will happen but ultimately it is up to us to make them happen.

if we want to see all religions with the eye of oneness we will and if we want to make friends with the lamb and the wolf -the previously hostile countries and races and religions - then we will - but if we don't we won't.

God sends Messengers and shares certain ideas and concepts with us that are progressive and for our age but then it is up to us if we decide to adopt these teachings and use them in our life or not. There is no compulsion in religion for us to obey God if we don't want to. We also don't have to use His ideas or His teachings if we choose not to. But if we find our world in a mess and nothing else works then maybe we should give these teachings a go to see if they work or not and if they don't we can always go back to our fighting and killing ways?

I personally think that it's up to the world to choose its own destiny. All we can do but is offer Baha'u'llah's guidance but the world must go its own way and make its own choices.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Loverofhumanity In today's world of course it sounds like fantasy. That why there's so many atheists. But... that is what the Bible says happened. It is not made up by the churches out of thin air. It was what the disciples of Jesus say happened.

What the Baha'i Faith says makes much more sense for us today. That Jesus died and his spirit rose. But how is that special? Baha'is believe everybody's spirit rises. The problem I have with the Baha'i interpretation, that of Abdul Baha, is that it makes the report of four gospels writers a work of fiction. Baha'is then come back and say that no... it is true but in a symbolic sense. Then I say why did the writers make it sound like it was a true, historical event? I do not blame Christians for believing what their Scriptures clearly and plainly say. If it is not true, then I blame God for "inspiring" misinformation.

Everybody has a different understanding and that is because we all think differently. We believe in the Gospels too.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Doesn't matter what you believe. It's a fact that humans are animals.

Doesn't matter what you believe. We'll lie amd cheat, fear prompts reactions of violence, and just look at all the selfish people ignoring the health risks and neglecting all semblance of social responsibility to the point of acting anti-social. We are a product of largely our genes, and our environment. People really aren't born as anything other than human. From there, genes and the world and its people shape and mold the individual.

What about all the people putting their lives on the line to help those who are sick,? There are many heroes in this world.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, you believe that YHWH, the God of Israel, changed his name to Baha’u’llah... Why?

Yes that is correct. That Christ will appear with a new name is mentioned twice in the Book of Revelation. Baha'u'llah means 'Glory of God' in English.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm sure someone has already mentioned it, but other plagues didn't put a stop to war. Even in the U.S. we have mini war zones in the "bad" sides of town. Guns, drugs, prostitution rings being run by gangs. Then rival gangs shoot each other. The "radical" right is preparing for war. Even the police have had some of its people go too far and shoot innocent people. Then we have cyber-criminals and corrupt politicians and other "white" collar criminals.

So part of the solution has to address all these other problems in society too. I know the Baha'i Peace statement goes into some of those things. But, until those "small" problems are dealt with, I don't think peace between nations is going to happen. Drug lords have guns. Corrupt leaders have guns. Radicals on the left and right have guns. Young kids in gangs have guns. "Good" citizens have guns in order to protect themselves from all the bad people. What do the Baha'is say about fixing those problems? 'Cause, as soon as the virus is over, all those things and the "big" wars will keep going.

My understanding is that we mature spiritually very slowly and gradually and that it will take many centuries and hard work by many individuals and institutions to lift humanity to a higher level. It won't happen overnight or by any magic. Only people who really accept that it is hard work and a long term project will carry it out so it's very slow progress because it involves hard work not instant formulas and many today expect that some sort of magic will happen and the world will become a paradise.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Of course Baha'is have to tie in, "fulfill" the prophecies of the other religions too, but... which verses in the Bible are Baha'is using to say that The Christ will return as the Father?

Yes you are comparing Baha'u'llah to Jesus, but, since they believe Muhammad and The Bab were also "Christs" then they have to be shown how they fulfilled prophecies also. Prophecies that would point to there being three "returns" since Jesus.

For Baha'u'llah they use Daniel's prophecies that when William Miller calculated them out they came out to 1844. They use Revelation to show how the return would happen in year 1260 of the Muslim calendar which is 1844. But, 1844 is not Baha'u'llah. It is when The Bab announced he was a messenger from God and the forerunner of a promised one to come later. Which would be like if Daniel predicted the day that Jesus would come, but instead it was the day that John the Baptist came.

But, even with the problems I can see with these prophecies, they are the strongest ones I've seen them give. And I'm yet to hear a Christian say why William Miller's calculations that lead up to 1844 are wrong. So if they are right, what happened? Why didn't Jesus come back? Or, is the Baha'i Faith that promised return? Other problems I've seen is that they use the "Three Woes" in Revelation as being Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. In context of the verses, I don't see it. Besides, the Woes seem to be terrible judgements against the people on the Earth. I don't see how the Baha'is can say how these Woes are returns of Christ.

Another questionable interpretation for me is how they make the Beasts and dragon of Revelation the Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties of Islam. Another is how they say that it was Ishmael, not Isaac, that Abraham took to be sacrificed. Since JW's have studied the Bible as much or more than most other Christians, does any of this make any since to you?

Just my view but to me the Person and teachings and Words and Life of Baha'u'llah are the real proof of His Spiritual Mission and station along with the fact that I believe He's brought the right teachings we need for our age. The prophecies to me are just added icing on the cake so to speak but the main proof to me is Baha'u'llah Himself and His Words and our need in this age for peace and unity seeing their fulfilment in His Cause.

 

[Trailblazer]

Baha'u'llah means 'Glory of God' in English.

But that does not mean Baha'u'llah was God. Baha'u'llah denied being God just as Jesus did. He considered Himself a Servant if God and a Messenger of God, even the Voice of God, but not God.

“Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 228