Idaho bans transgender person from athletics or changing gender of birth certificates

[Heyo]

There is no reason a MtF who had an estrogenic puberty shluld not be allowed to compete as they would have nine of the advantages of those who had an androgenic puberty.

You are divisive by distinguishing trans people into those who transitioned before and after puberty!

No, seriously, the topic is complex and a very fine grained solution is necessary and the different sports organizations are working on it. No need for the government to interfere.
I've learned about the details when I followed the controversy around the video Stephen Woodford (Rationality Rules) made. At the moment there isn't even a scientific consensus about the finer details. The rules may change according to newer insights. That is much too fast for the legislative to handle.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are divisive by distinguishing trans people into those who transitioned before and after puberty!

It's a biologucal fact though that those who undergo a puberty guided by the hormones of the identified sex will have a body shape of that sex, unlike those who went through the puberty of their birth sex, then started on the hormones of their identified sex. And those who had a male puberty for the most part will have an unfair advantage.

 

[Revoltingest]

What are you talking about? I didn’t schedule when this legislation was passed. I posted it when it happened. Are you suggesting we can’t talk about anything else but coronavirus now? Seriously?

You're relatively new here.
Let me explain how it works.
If I like a law, then it's good.
If I dislike a law, then it shouldn't be considered cuz
there are more important things to address first.

As for the law, I'd eliminate gender from
birth certificates. It's not needed.
Sports...no separate gender categories.
Let women compete on men's football teams,
& men compete in women's Jello wrestling.

Under my system, being trans wouldn't be an issue.
And it eliminates all the Title Nine bureaucracy.

 

[Heyo]

It's a biologucal fact though that those who undergo a puberty guided by the hormones of the identified sex will have a body shape of that sex, unlike those who went through the puberty of their birth sex, then started on the hormones of their identified sex. And those who had a male puberty for the most part will have an unfair advantage.

True in the broadest form but what are the exact limits for testosterone levels acceptable? During puberty, during training and during the competition?
Do they have to be the same for all sports? Is a "male" body shape as advantageous in chess as it is in MMA?
That's why it is important to look at the details and each spots organization has to look separate and listen to newer insights from the scientific community and change rules accordingly and timely. A task the legislative isn't really capable of and not meant for.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do they have to be the same for all sports? Is a "male" body shape as advantageous in chess as it is in MMA?

Obviously not as chess is a game about mental ability, which has nothing to do with athletic ability.

 

[Heyo]

Obviously not as chess is a game about mental ability, which has nothing to do with athletic ability.

So M2F trans people should be able to compete in womens chess even if they transitioned after puberty. Or shouldn't they? Men play on a higher level than women, on average and especially at the top. We assume it has nothing to do with body shape but we really don't know. More study is required.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not that I agree with the state's involvement, because I don't, I hope you're not suggesting that governmental entities should come to a stand still just because there's one issue that dominates all others. Life and governance does go on.

Now, that said, while I go along with preventing trans-females from competing against regular females, for what I think should be obvious reasons, I don't see any reason such prohibition or control needs to come from the government. I would think the governing athletic agencies involved in overseeing a sport/sports, such as the Amateur Athletic Union, or those of individual states, like the Indiana High School Athletic Association,‎ ‎would be quite capable of handling the matter. Making it a state law is ridiculous beyond belief.

.

No one said government should come to a standstill but I expect them to focus on what's important. This is horrible in normal times but it's even more of a spit in the face now.

Whether trans women should be allowed to compete against cis women in sports should be taken on a case by case basis, decided by doctors and science, not the government or blanket rulings.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So M2F trans people should be able to compete in womens chess even if they transitioned after puberty. Or shouldn't they? Men play on a higher level than women, on average and especially at the top. We assume it has nothing to do with body shape but we really don't know. More study is required.

Men also tend to have more free time for stuff like that. Also men and women, in the broadest and most general sense (such as saying men are generally taller and larger), tend to play different games. And this goes into nueropsychogy, where men and women tend to have different brains. When a bidy amd brain have mismatched genders, this is what causes someone to be transgender. Thus, in chess, a MtF who had a male phberty will still have a brain that looks more female, and we know this due to analyzing the brains of such people, both those who did and did not receive hormone therapy in life. So it would be an even and fair competition, unlike a MtF in weight lifting or FtM in gymnastics.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sports...no separate gender categories.
Let women compete on men's football teams,
& men compete in women's Jello wrestling.

Even I have to admit that just wouldn't be fair in numerous compititions. The only ones I can think where it might not really make a difference are those that go by weight class, such as wrestling or boxing. And of course ones like bowling I really dont think it makes a difference

 

[Revoltingest]

Even I have to admit that just wouldn't be fair in numerous compititions. The only ones I can think where it might not really make a difference are those that go by weight class, such as wrestling or boxing. And of course ones like bowling I really dont think it makes a difference

Weight classes makes sense.
Example....
Instead of separate men's & women's basketball teams,
there'd be a bruiser class & a pee wee class.

Caution:
I'm not saying that my proposal is better for sports.
It would be unfair.
(Sports is already unfair to the weak, lazy, talentless, & fragile.)
But it would fix all the gender based wrangling.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If a MtF doesnt undergo an androgenic puberty they do noy have those advantages, as their skeletons developed under the influence of estrogen instead of testosterone.

I never heard that before. Where did you get that information?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Weight classes makes sense.
Example....
Instead of separate men's & women's basketball teams,
there'd be a bruiser class & a pee wee class.

Caution:
I'm not saying that my proposal is better for sports.
It would be unfair.
(Sports is already unfair to the weak, lazy, talentless, & fragile.)
But it would fix all the gender based wrangling.

Or we just downplay the hell out of basketball because its a simple game played by kids, and thus collectively realize and accept the foolishness of athlete worship. They're just games being played by people.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Obviously not as chess is a game about mental ability, which has nothing to do with athletic ability.

Well there's always golf.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I never heard that before. Where did you get that information?

Basic biology and a few case studies into those who transitioned before puberty, and physically developed more like the cis-gender of their identified sex.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well there's always golf.

Truly, I have no idea of what sort of whatevers give you whatever advantages in golf. It being outdoors, sometimes on scenic courses, is the only real interesting thing about, and its entertaining when you fantasize about someone like Happy Gilmore on the course.

 

[Revoltingest]

Or we just downplay the hell out of basketball because its a simple game played by kids, and thus collectively realize and accept the foolishness of athlete worship. They're just games being played by people.

Yeah...that won't happen.
Neurotypicals love their pro sports.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yeah...that won't happen.
Neurotypicals love their pro sports.

Yeah. So much that even rolling balls, hitting them with a stick into a hole, and turning left a bunch of times are considered sports. It's weird. Such as guys who very insecure to the point of homophobia, but think guys jumping on top of each other and slappi g each other and the *** and spending time with eachother naked in the shower is the apex of manliness.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah. So much that even rolling balls, hitting them with a stick into a hole, and turning left a bunch of times are considered sports. It's weird. Such as guys who very insecure to the point of homophobia, but think guys jumping on top of each other and slappi g each other and the *** and spending time with eachother naked in the shower is the apex of manliness.

I hear @columbus breathing heavily now.

 

[Heyo]

Thus, in chess, a MtF who had a male phberty will still have a brain that looks more female, and we know this due to analyzing the brains of such people, both those who did and did not receive hormone therapy in life.

I wasn't aware that neuropsychology was that advanced. I knew that that was a hypothesis but not that it has been confirmed. You don't happen to have a link to a relevant study?

 

[columbus]

I hear @columbus breathing heavily now.

Ironic, isn't it?
I couldn't care less about sports, especially not TV shows about sports like the Superbowl coverage.

But dudes will spend hours on the couch watching muscular guys cavorting on the TV, sweating and jumping into piles and such, but think I'm the queer.

Tom