Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
The fact that we have to have debate on and pass laws to ensure transgenders the same rights the rest of the population already has speaks volumes about society. It should just be a given.
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Agreed; however, we do have folk like those at FOCUS on the FAMILY who see things quite differently, and say:The fact that we have to have debate on and pass laws to ensure transgenders the same rights the rest of the population already has speaks volumes about society. It should just be a given.
It isn’t a “fact” that we need to. Perhaps you should recheck the definition of the word fact.The fact that we have to have debate on and pass laws to ensure transgenders the same rights the rest of the population already has speaks volumes about society. It should just be a given.
Before I can put transgenders in the equation of religion a philosophy, first, you must prove that "transgenders" are even a real thing.
Well, that's trivially easy.
A simple observation of just about any culture any of us live in will immediately turn up various social and cultural norms surrounding what sex and gender mean, as well as people who do not fit neatly within those norms. Those who do not fit within the social and cultural norms surrounding sex and gender are described with various terms including but not limited to transsexual or transgender. While it's true that social/cultural norms are constructs, they are very real things that have a very real impact on everyone living within those societies.
Without going too deep in the details, everything you said is subjective. Allow me to rephrase and clarify my post
Before I can put transgenders in the equation of religion a philosophy, first, you must prove that "transgenders" are even a real thing. Proving "transgenders" empirically with objective evidence. Prove a man can become a woman and vice versa. Also, why stop at men and women, why not trans species? trans age? yes, as brain damaged as those terms are, those are "real" things. I can ask more questions and add even more wrinkles that will only further complicate your answer but, i think you get where i am going with this.
Thanks
While it's true that social/cultural norms are constructs, they are very real things that have a very real impact on everyone living within those societies.
Well...we are also discussing barhrooms and facilities..
Which bathroom or locker room do you think I should use?
Ah, but that's the point my friend.
The reform to the GRA (already passed in other countries such as France, Argentina and Ireland etc.) would 'remove' the medical scrutiny phase as a requirement before registering oneself as having 'transitioned'. One would still be able to seek and access this medical service but as a choice.
Applicants for a Gender Recognition Certificate, at the moment, have to undergo intense scrutiny from a "life panel" about all manner of sensitive evidence and information, which can be incredibly invasive of privacy and also rather traumatic.
Its also very expensive, which unfairly restricts the ability of those on lower-incomes to partake of this medical service.
Locker rooms? None.
The church does often hate us. I have more than enough personal experience with them to know that many Christians, especially fundamentalists and evangelicals, are no friends of ours and opposed to our rights and campaign against us to the point they end up targeting amd going after gender non-conforming cis people.Moreover, they usually have decided the church hates them so they turn against the church.
Intersexed people will sometimes have one set but look like the other.based on either the xy chromosomes or xx
I really doubt youd equally apply such a standard to men amd womem who are infertile by birth or accident. And, you wouldn't because without them telling you there is no way to know. You'd just see a man or woman and go about your business.A transgender person, if taken to the limits of surgery and hormone treatment, cannot produce either gamete cell, is therefore neither male or female.
Perhaps then you should look up the facts of science and medicine.It isn’t a “fact” that we need to. Perhaps you should recheck the definition of the word fact.
Most places (many, at least) go by the WPATH standards of care so there is supervision, assessment, diagnosis, and a requirement of living full time as your identified sex for no less than one year, which must be accompanied by two letters of recommendation from psychologists qualifed amd trained in gender issues.In New Zealand we have an assessment by a psychiatrist (free) and then as assessment by an endocrinologist (free). If someone is going to undergo permanent changes through surgery as well as hormone treatments it seems irresponsible to have transitioning on demand without a thorough medical assessment first.
Which means I can't go to the swimming pool? I really love to swim ...how can I do?
I've already provided it to you.I wasn't asking you to get into a debate, I was asking because what you wrote about your transgender friends was intriguing and I wanted/want more info. I was raised knowing that those two words had the same meaning, but nowadays people have changed the meaning of gender. Okay, so what's an objective definition of gender?
But that's not remotely true, and definitely not objective.Very well. I'll update my definition: based on either the xy chromosomes or xx chromosomes, a male or female will naturally have certain looks depending on their biological definition.
GenderYou wrote something along "what the dictionary says". I'd appreciate you posting that definition here.