The irony in the Baha'i faith

[Sirona]

What has surprised me coming onto RF is the extent to which some Hindus become fixated on the Baha’i Faith and feel a need to criticise. However the majority of Hindus on RF reflect the peaceful and tolerant values of their faith.

I have to tread carefully because I am a convert and no hero on philosophy but I think but I think that Baha'i faith and Hinduism roughly concur

- in the idea of continuous descent of re-establishers of the dharma

- from an extremely tolerant Hindu POV "all religions lead to the same goal"

Baha'i faith and Hinduism strongly disagree

- on the nature of those re-establishers of dharma, which, for the Hindus are usually Gods or forms of God (avatars)

- on the one size fits all approach to religions; followers of "earlier" incarnations are not required/supposed/expected to give up their devotion to those "earlier" avatars

For persons who rarely studied other religions, devotion to Baha'ullah can be an incentive to do so, but from a Hindu POV devotion to Baha'ullah/ his successors/the Universal House of Justice it is not at all prerequisite for studying other religions. Evidently, you don't even have to identify as a Hindu to study the religions of the world, but for the sake of discussion I'll call it "the Hindu approach".

It is irrelevant whether Baha'i do it out of a misunderstanding or on purpose, but by attaching what looks a lot like "the Hindu approach" to their teachings, Baha'i's exploit the positive image religions like Hinduism or Buddhism often have in the minds of "alternative", "tolerant", "open-minded" Western people. If Baha'i's were truthful and wrote "Baha'ullah" on their can of worms instead, then I guess it would be a very slow seller.

And despite my intent of foregoing anecdotal evidence, I've met some Bahai's during my time at university. Of course, they weren't "bad people", but I found them secretive about the true nature of their religion, and inconsistent. For example, IMHO they are not allowed to engage in political controversies while at the same time pushing the political buttons in what at the time were mostly left-wing individuals. Which self-respecting leftie would be against "tolerance in religion" and "equality for men and women"?

On the book they gave me, there was a quote from Baha'ullah — 'The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens'. Without background knowledge, it sounded like a dreamland promise. With a little perspective, I'd say it it could be as well be interpreted as a (very unlikely but basically possible) threat. Countries where ideologies are imposed by (state) authorities tend not to be the happiest places.

At that time, I had nothing against the Baha'i religion, although during a municipal “week of tolerance”, I witnessed a bunch of left-wing, probably self-identifying "tolerant" Christians becoming defensive about their religion in a town hall at a Baha'i lecture which had been officially been announced as an “informational event” under the patronage of the university city. I guess you all can imagine how the “informational event” took place. I forgot about that episode but while permanently reading postings which often sound like copy-and-paste from a database and which are always just a hair's breadth below the radar of proselytizing, I'd say critics should have their right to five minutes of attention as well.

BTW, the following event to attract seekers would have been a chocolate tasting. But sometimes there is truth in the old saying of not taking candy from strangers.

 

[Dawnofhope]

First, thanks for being a classy poster. What is religion when it reduces people to animosity? My sentiments are still pro-Baha'i and I primarily agree with your three points above.
This is the point in which I feel many modern western Baha'i converts are not in full understanding as a few things about the Baha'i Faith have been de-emphasized to make the Baha'i Faith more smoothly palatable to good quality liberal-minded westerners.

Here is the point de-emphasized and in many cases completely missed by well-meaning western Baha'is: The Bahai Faith is to be the One predominant Faith of the New World Order. There will never be forced conversion but such overwhelming world-wide conversion that Baha'i administrative institutions will even replace the governments of the world's countries. We will have a Baha'i Commonwealth ushering in the Golden Age of mankind. Major religions of the past will be fulfilled and advanced through acceptance of the Baha'i covenant and people will be all united under the one independent world religion, the Baha'i Faith.

By this is meant that all nations and kindreds will be gathered together under the shadow of this Divine Banner, which is no other than the Lordly Branch itself, and will become a single nation.

All men will adhere to one religion, will have one common faith, will be blended into one race and become a single people.

Shoghi Effendi (Source Document from which quotes are taken)

Thanks for your positive response @George-ananda

Its certainly useful to consider what Shoghi Effendi has to say in 1936 and I commend a much more recent document ‘One Common Faith’ published in 2003 which elaborates on this theme. I include a link in your interested. Its about 40 or so pages long but essential reading for any Baha’i who is serious about Interfaith dialogue and it should be helpful to clarify what is meant by one common faith and how that fits with Bahá’u’lláh’s Revelation.

One Common Faith | Bahá’í Reference Library

Briefly one common faith does not mean everyone should have the same religion anymore than being part of one human race means we should all be the same skin colour. Its simply an acknowledgement of the continuity of Divine Revelation. In that sense Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam are all part of God’s unfolding purpose and guidance for humanity. So recognition of this simple truth is at the heart of the principle of oneness of religion.

The overriding principle of the Baha’i Faith is unity in diversity, not unity in conformity. So the analogy Shoghi Effendi makes reference to is a verse from Isaiah that reads:

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together...

The animals are different, not the same but coexisting in harmony.

In reference to one common faith it is written:

With the revelation of the Qur’án, the theme of the succession of the Messengers of God becomes central: “We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismā‘īl, Isaac, Jacob … and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord.…”44

For a sympathetic and objective reader of such passages what emerges is a recognition of the essential oneness of religion. So it is that the term “Islám” (literally “submission” to God) designates not merely the particular dispensation of Providence inaugurated by Muḥammad but, as the words of the Qur’án make unmistakably clear, religion itself. While it is true to speak of the unity of all religions, understanding of the context is vital. At the deepest level, as Bahá’u’lláh emphasizes, there is but one religion. Religion is religion, as science is science.

I would hope that dispels any notion that one common faith means everyone becomes a Baha’i. It doesn’t. It does require a profound shift of thinking where religion is viewed as one and we abandon religious tribalism exemplified by some Hindus, Christians and Muslims who clearly envisage their own religious worldview as vastly superior to everyone else’s.

The one world government is a another issue that I may deal with later.

Thanks again for being part of this thread and your valuable contributions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I have to break it up. Since the questions weren't question/answer, this will be all over the place.

The main purpose and principle around which all the teachings of Baha’u’llah revolve is the oneness of humanity. That all races, nationalities and religions and peoples are equal and none is superior to the other. That includes both believers and non believers. That all prejudices need to be eliminated.

The concept of the oneness of mankind has far reaching implications legally, politically, socially and spiritually for when humanity’s interests are put above vested and national interests a lot of problems can be solved together as one family. It also implies a world commonwealth giving birth to a world civilisation with a world metropolis and world language while at the same time the diversity of the human race being preserved.

Humanity has evolved from the family, tribe, city state to nation and nation building has come to an end. The next stage Baha’is believe is the unity of humankind. Technology and wars causing refugees has shrunk the world into a global neighbourhood where the different races, religions and nationalities have been thrown together in a kind of melting pot but without the necessary tools to deal with the situation.

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah was sent by God to guide us into the next stage of our evolution which is the eventual establishment of a flourishing world civilisation living in peace, prosperity and happiness and so He taught things like ‘the earth is but one country and mankind it’s citizens’ because the us and them paradigm has only led to endless wars for thousands of years.

Baha’is believe that the establishment of the oneness of mankind is the urgent need of our age because it rejects, by its very nature for any one race, nation or religion to dominate the world which would be catastrophic and throw us into unimaginable horrors.

That's definitely a good belief. Many religions do share this as well. All is good.

Does Baha'i religion replace older religions (in order to achieve this goal)?

The oneness of mankind would involve replacing other religions in order for them to evolve into one that promotes oneness (so, disregarding teachings of that time period that teaches the opposite)?

Shaping religions in order to promote oneness bahai religion defines?

For instance racism has the power to destroy America internally without it ever having to go to war, terrorism can turn the east and west against each other and cause grave consequences. Only viewing all humanity as equal fellow human beings do we stand any chance of living in peace.

We agree with the oneness of humanity. We disagree with the religious part, though, not the humanity part.

So Baha’u’llah’s teaching of the oneness of humanity is what Baha’is believe is needed for our time. But we don’t worship Baha’u’llah or our religion.we worship only God. And we are exhorted to consort with the followers of all religions in friendship and fellowship so we visit and pray and meditate at other religions temples, mosques, synagogues and churches as we believe all religions teach truths such has love, virtues and good character.

That's good for many religions. I know other religions that do this too; that, not the focus, though. We're talking about the religion part of bahai (god, manifestations, etc) rather than charity and humanity.

Does Baha'i believe that Hindus, Christians, Muslims, Buddhist, believe in the same abrahamic god?

So the oneness of humanity is the major teaching round which the Baha’i Faith revolves.

Yes. The issue isn't the oneness of humanity. It's the religious part.

God: Are all religions under one abrahamic god?
Manifestations:
a. Do manifestations replace "old" teachings in place of new ones (that relate to oneness)?
b. Are other religions (Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Christian) wrong because they hold on to old beliefs that do not help humanity in today's period?

Years ago, one Bahai mentioned that scriptures were distorted. I can't quote verbatim.

Scriptures: Do bahai change the scriptures (Suttas, Bible, Quran) to its original in order to promote oneness of humanity rather than division?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I’m going to provide you with my personal perspective of the Baha’i Faith that I hope and pray is based on the Baha’i writings. There are others here who can correct me if I err.

Takes a good amount of trust in yourself that what you say doesn't need to be verbatim to speak what god guides you to. Work in progress (not sarcastic)?

Before answering the questions if we’re going to be frank I don’t believe any answer from any Baha’i will satisfy some of the participants on this thread. There are at least four critics of the Baha’i Faith on this thread who have been talking to the Baha’is for nearly three years on this forum, in two instances longer. I can’t imagine that anything that’s said by the Baha’is will make too much difference for these individuals to be completely frank. I’m always open to discussion and really like each one a great deal but OTOH I have little interest when we seem to talk past each other, go round in circles or keep rehashing the same stuff ad nauseam.

Unfortunately. I guess I'm a peace maker at heart "and" we just we have different means of coming to that peace.

The Baha’i Faith will not replace any religion. How could we? However the Baha’i Faith does present a renewed version of both Christianity and Islam. It does to a lesser extent do the same with both Buddhism and Hinduism.

Thank you. The context is:

So, for a short example, if Hindu believe in the same god Abrahamic does in order to promote oneness of humanity, that is a replacement or upgrade. It's saying "at the moment, Hindus are still working to build oneness, but when they know everyone comes from the same god (or agree to it) we can come to oneless of humanity.

It's saying "the old did not work, so let's together to form a new perspective."

I don't know how else to flip it so it won't sound negative.

Is this the case with Bahai views?

Christians and Muslims believe in the God of Abraham. Most Buddhists and Hindus simply don’t think in terms of the God of Abraham. They may share many of the values and morals as their Abrahamic cousins but the whole narrative is quite different.

This leads me to my former question, though. They don't think in terms of... does that mean they believe in god but their perspective is different or do they not believe in god of abraham (no perspectives/colors)?

Baha’is don’t believe Jesus literally rose from the dead. How Christians see Jesus is their business but clearly we disagree He rose from the dead. You’ll find similar examples in other religions. Reincarnation in Hinduism is a example of a core difference with the Baha’i Faith.

Thank you. I'm trying to find what other differences bahai have with other faiths without it being perspectives of the same foundation.

Do you think that's possible or does bahai not teach that?

The Quran is seen as the authenticated repository of the Word of God. The New Testament and Hebrew Scriptures are seen as more or less authentic. We can not say for certain to what extent the Buddhist and Hindu scriptures are authentic and that will be a matter for scholars to unravel.

True. They are totally separate religions so it would be unwise to compare them outside academic purposes.

The Baha’i Faith has a great deal to say about both Christian and Islamic Scriptures that we would see as being based on God’s Revelation through Bahá’u’lláh. Some of that will contradict what Muslims and Christians believe about their scriptures. Obviously the Baha’i Writings takes precedence for Baha’is.

Of course. I'm more getting towards old vs new and how bahai sees the new at the expense of the old.

The Baha’i Writings have little to say in regards Buddhism and Hinduism but we acknowledge there are nonetheless Baha’i beliefs that contradict some views that are cherished by many Hindus and Buddhists.

True. I think the main problem (I think main?) people have with the three is its build on one foundation.

The differences are drastic, yes. Different colors. But you got to recognize different sources.

Do they believe that other religions have different sources?

Thanks for answering.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Baha’i Writings are true for me and I accept they are not true for you.

The basics are fine, almost. It's the fine print stuff. What is not true to a Hindu, or a Jew, or a Christian or some other person from some other religion. It's always in the details of what the Baha'i really believe.

Yeah, you have no chance of convincing me, but perhaps I have a chance to save someone from untruth.

Unfortunately, the greatest "untruth" the Baha'is have brought is that they believe in the "oneness" of religion. Do they believe in your Hindu beliefs? I don't think so. So for a Baha'i, your religion is not "one" with theirs. Is that fixable? Can they find away to accept your beliefs and fit it into a revised way of seeing how religions have progressed?

Now about the "basics" of the Baha'i beliefs. Already with their beliefs in "one" God and that he sent a continuous stream of special messengers to bring an ever progressive message, it don't fit with all the other religions. They have to convince a Hindu that there is only one God and not many. For you, they'd have to convince you that there is a God. They'd have to convince other Hindus that messengers are not incarnations. And, that soul/spirit does not come back into a different bodies.

What are their arguments? That people distorted the original message or they misinterpreted it? So in other words... what you say you believe is wrong. That is not "oneness". That is not respecting nor accepting of what other people believe. It is changing the other religions' beliefs to fit into the Baha'i beliefs.

 

[George-ananda]

Thanks for your positive response @George-ananda

Its certainly useful to consider what Shoghi Effendi has to say in 1936 and I commend a much more recent document ‘One Common Faith’ published in 2003 which elaborates on this theme. I include a link in your interested. Its about 40 or so pages long but essential reading for any Baha’i who is serious about Interfaith dialogue and it should be helpful to clarify what is meant by one common faith and how that fits with Bahá’u’lláh’s Revelation.

One Common Faith | Bahá’í Reference Library

Briefly one common faith does not mean everyone should have the same religion anymore than being part of one human race means we should all be the same skin colour. Its simply an acknowledgement of the continuity of Divine Revelation. In that sense Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam are all part of God’s unfolding purpose and guidance for humanity. So recognition of this simple truth is at the heart of the principle of oneness of religion.

The overriding principle of the Baha’i Faith is unity in diversity, not unity in conformity. So the analogy Shoghi Effendi makes reference to is a verse from Isaiah that reads:

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together...

The animals are different, not the same but coexisting in harmony.

In reference to one common faith it is written:

With the revelation of the Qur’án, the theme of the succession of the Messengers of God becomes central: “We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismā‘īl, Isaac, Jacob … and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord.…”44

For a sympathetic and objective reader of such passages what emerges is a recognition of the essential oneness of religion. So it is that the term “Islám” (literally “submission” to God) designates not merely the particular dispensation of Providence inaugurated by Muḥammad but, as the words of the Qur’án make unmistakably clear, religion itself. While it is true to speak of the unity of all religions, understanding of the context is vital. At the deepest level, as Bahá’u’lláh emphasizes, there is but one religion. Religion is religion, as science is science.

I would hope that dispels any notion that one common faith means everyone becomes a Baha’i. It doesn’t. It does require a profound shift of thinking where religion is viewed as one and we abandon religious tribalism exemplified by some Hindus, Christians and Muslims who clearly envisage their own religious worldview as vastly superior to everyone else’s.

The one world government is a another issue that I may deal with later.

Thanks again for being part of this thread and your valuable contributions.

OK, but I think you are presenting the modern liberal thinking western palatable version.

What I honestly see is that the words of the Guardian (the official interpreter) not really being understood and given a palatable interpretation.

Per Shoghi Effendi the Baha’i Faith (under the banner ‘Baha’i) is to be the overwhelming one religion and one administrative order replacing the religions and governmental organizations of the earlier dispensations.

I knew people in the 1980’s with an encyclopedic knowledge of the faith and these things I say were not in question.

 

[CG Didymus]

Each person is entitled to their perspective and make constructive criticism.

The constructive criticism is speak from the heart. You ain't going to out debate people.

CG. This is why a lot of us prefer to use quotes because we can’t possibly compete with the Pen of Baha’u’llah. Often in my words I find that I might convey the truth but not the exact spirit which Baha’u’llah imparted so for now I might try more to find a quote because my answers are just not as accurate as the Word itself.

I know people don’t like long quotes but to abandon them completely was a bad mistake which now has us being criticised for the way we post. We mean exactly what Baha’u’llah or Abdul-Baha says but in our own words it sounds watered down a lot and doesn’t truly reflect what the Faith really stands for.

You don't have to quote the Baha'i writings to be a friend. Like the advise people give to some kid when he likes a girl. They tell him to ask her what she is into, and don't go spending all the time talking about yourself. The bad news is... after you find out what she's into, maybe you find out you really don't think all that much about her.

And that could be a problem here. Baha'is should listen to and respect people in other religions. But then, what do we got? One Hindu doesn't believe in God and the other doesn't believe in Krishna? You still going to like them for what they are? Hell no, you're going to tell them how wrong they are and show them proof of why there is a God and how God sends divine messengers. Maybe a nice, long, flowery quote that you love and means so much to you and they.... don't read it.

So oops, let's try that again. What do you have in common with them? Peace, love, family, one big all-inclusive human family, and puppy dogs. Even someone like Old Badger. What do you have in common? 'Cause you ain't going to win fighting him. Badgers don't quit... especially old ones.

 

[Vinayaka]

The constructive criticism is speak from the heart. You ain't going to out debate people.
You don't have to quote the Baha'i writings to be a friend. Like the advise people give to some kid when he likes a girl. They tell him to ask her what she is into, and don't go spending all the time talking about yourself. The bad news is... after you find out what she's into, maybe you find out you really don't think all that much about her.

And that could be a problem here. Baha'is should listen to and respect people in other religions. But then, what do we got? One Hindu doesn't believe in God and the other doesn't believe in Krishna? You still going to like them for what they are? Hell no, you're going to tell them how wrong they are and show them proof of why there is a God and how God sends divine messengers. Maybe a nice, long, flowery quote that you love and means so much to you and they.... don't read it.

So oops, let's try that again. What do you have in common with them? Peace, love, family, one big all-inclusive human family, and puppy dogs. Even someone like Old Badger. What do you have in common? 'Cause you ain't going to win fighting him. Badgers don't quit... especially old ones.

In my childhood I actually was witness to a brutal badger fight. My uncle had coyote hounds ... just a really brutal sport. Bred to fight. One day two of them (Their names were Nip and Tuck) got into it with a badger. Don't tell my deceased relatives, but I was secretly hoping for the badger.

As for the friendly bit, it does happen some, but it takes real concentration on both sides to stay away from the faith aspect. I think I'll start a thread on the Aussie heat at the moment.

As for being curious about another's faith, it makes it more difficult when folks (like me) really don't want to share much. I have been told that in the future I'll be asked some, but it hasn't happened yet. For that matter, I know very little about you.

 

[oldbadger]

And then I see a classy guy like @adrian009 and feel a little bad about anything that might be a discouraging word.

I don't discuss individuals, George.
If I mention anything, it is about Bahai.
But many Bahais have felt the need to make very strange suggestions about me.


On the side, class, wealth and social status don't cut with me. If, for instance a Bahai should boast about their work, wealth and size of home, or show pictures of their success in various ways, it would put them down in my estimation.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I have to tread carefully because I am a convert and no hero on philosophy but I think but I think that Baha'i faith and Hinduism roughly concur

- in the idea of continuous descent of re-establishers of the dharma

- from an extremely tolerant Hindu POV "all religions lead to the same goal"

Baha'i faith and Hinduism strongly disagree

- on the nature of those re-establishers of dharma, which, for the Hindus are usually Gods or forms of God (avatars)

- on the one size fits all approach to religions; followers of "earlier" incarnations are not required/supposed/expected to give up their devotion to those "earlier" avatars

BTW, the following event to attract seekers would have been a chocolate tasting. But sometimes there is truth in the old saying of not taking candy from strangers.

There is wisdom in avoiding stepping into the arena of comparative religion unless you have a sound grasp of both Faiths you wish to discuss AND your intent is to build bridges across the two religions. As you have little grasp of the Baha’i Faith and your intent is clearly antagonistic there seems little purpose in us talking further for now. All the best.

 

[Vinayaka]

On the side, class, wealth and social status don't cut with me. If, for instance a Bahai should boast about their work, wealth and size of home, or show pictures of their success in various ways, it would put them down in my estimation.

But isn't that just anybody? Stuff like that from anyone doesn't impress me. The temple I go to has a few Mercedes in the parking lot. So what? I go with what our priest said ... "once they cross the sanctum line, they're all equal in the eyes of God." Just as they sometimes call death the great equaliser, so too we should view people as equals, based on character, and not much else.

 

[night912]

I would hope that dispels any notion that one common faith means everyone becomes a Baha’i. It doesn’t. It does require a profound shift of thinking where religion is viewed as one and we abandon religious tribalism exemplified by some Hindus, Christians and Muslims who clearly envisage their own religious worldview as vastly superior to everyone else’s.

To me, religion is one of, if not the most, convoluted topic resulting in debates being so controversial. The reason is because the word, "religion" has no clear definition that can be agreed on. What you said above is a good example of what I'm talking about. This is the reason why I care more about "ideas" than the "titles" of any particular religion, therefore, making me focus on the ideas while engaging in a discussion. The names of each "religion" are nothing more than labels we use to identify the ideas of that group.

That being said, from what think the context of the above quote, I disagree with what you said. First of all, you are wrong about the diversity of religions because you are making an error when separating the individual religions, which is, by simply doing it by just the names of each religion. Next, you said that we must abandon religious tribalism in order to achieve one common faith. That is impossible in regards to religion because religion itself is tribalism of ideas. You suggest that not everyone are required to be a Baha’i. And that they can remain as Hindus, Christians, Muslims, etc. Those are nothing more than labels for the those religions, and not the religion themselves. Suppose that people who once belonged to those "older" religions did what you said and changed just like you propose and to achieve a common faith. They can continue to call themselves that, but in actuality, they have converted, and now follows the Baha’i religion.

A clear and simple example is Judaism/Jews and Christianity/Christians. When the Jesus emerge and started his teachings, he taught it to the Jews. His early followers still see themselves as Jews, but they are no longer practicing the religion called Judaism, instead, they converted to a new religion. The one that we recognised today as Christianity. You can also see that in Christianity itself with all the different denominations.

In conclusion, the "new" religion has replaced, and not just renew, the "old" one. It's the collective ideas that determine what a particular religion is, and not just the name that's been given to it. As mentioned in my example. There's no denying that Christianity is not Judaism and vice versa.

 

[shmogie]

This is the most misunderstanding concept. I quote from Bahai Writings:

"Let no one, however, mistake my purpose. The Revelation, of which Bahá’u’lláh is the source and center, abrogates none of the religions that have preceded it, nor does it attempt, in the slightest degree, to distort their features or to belittle their value. It disclaims any intention of dwarfing any of the Prophets of the past, or of whittling down the eternal verity of their teachings. It can, in no wise, conflict with the spirit that animates their claims, nor does it seek to undermine the basis of any man’s allegiance to their cause. Its declared, its primary purpose is to enable every adherent of these Faiths to obtain a fuller understanding of the religion with which he stands identified, and to acquire a clearer apprehension of its purpose. It is neither eclectic in the presentation of its truths, nor arrogant in the affirmation of its claims. Its teachings revolve around the fundamental principle that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is progressive, not final. Unequivocally and without the least reservation it proclaims all established religions to be divine in origin, identical in their aims, complementary in their functions, continuous in their purpose, indispensable in their value to mankind."

Bahá'í Reference Library - The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 57-60


Essentially, Baha'I Faith claims, Religion of God needs to be renewed in every Age.
Thus Bahai Faith is the renewed Christ Faith. It is the renewed Hinduism. It is the renewed Islam. As much as even as Christ and other Messengers have said, the Religion would get distorted by false teachers, thus all Religions promised a Person to appear at the end, to renewe Religion and teach the original Faith. Bahais believe, this promise is fulfilled by the person of Bahaullah, and He is the One all previous Foumders of Religions had promised to come.

No

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@adrian009 and @loverofhumanity

Short distinct questions (repeat):

How do we (through manifestations) bring together all Hindus (and other revealed religions) to the oneness of god?

(Unfortunately, it's hard to find answers in bahaullah's words because they don't mirror your words since you're not bahaullah.)

Do we one day need to believe in the same thing (same nature of god for example) in order for humanity to be at peace?

If we are colors of one rainbow we are, by definition, under one god. So, differences aren't by foundation but by trait. In order to be aligned with other religions, it needs to be shared by foundation not by colors.

How do you see or your perspective of individuals who do not agree they are colors of one rainbow?

We have differences, yes. But the core of this is "in the future" according to bahai, we will not. Everything is under one god.

So, see this from the future perspective rather than present.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And you may want to stop using the title "Christ", there's only been and only ever will be one, the same who was crucified, entombed, and resurrected, and who ascended into heaven and later appeared to Paul, but did not come back as Baha'u'llah.

I am more than Happy to see Christ is the First and the Last, The Beginning and the End, The Alpha and Omega. To be that, I am happy to see that Christ is all the Messengers and that they One and All are from our one God.

I have no desire or need to tell you you have to see in in any other way than you choose.

I am also happy @Jim knows what his heart is telling Him and I am happy for Jim to post how he sees He should and I see that Jim needs absolutely no help from me.

For a Baha'i it is all about learning how to give what is from God, how God has asked us to do it. It takes time to understand how that should be and most of the time we all make mistakes.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's it? No recanting your false claim? Cool. One more for my "ignore" list.

Thank you. That is the best thing for you to do. Your soul will benefit.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And what have you learned?

I'd think that a Baha'i should show respect for people of other religions... And know that those people are going to have different beliefs. But, instead of finding the commonalities, many Baha'is seem happy to push people from other religions away. That is not what they are supposed to be doing, so it can't be good for them.

I see people push themselves away by their own actions and responses.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If we have to do all things, what is the need to have an Allah and scores of his manifestations?What, if the words that you live by themselves are untruth?

They give us life in this world. This life is for us to grow spiritually, which takes free will. Thus a reality is created where we can use our God given free will to grow our spiritual limbs, or we can also choose not to.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony, maybe we should all leave this forum as it’s abundantly clear we are not wanted here?

That may be a very wise choice David, I see you are most likely correct.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

The constructive criticism is speak from the heart. You ain't going to out debate people.
You don't have to quote the Baha'i writings to be a friend. Like the advise people give to some kid when he likes a girl. They tell him to ask her what she is into, and don't go spending all the time talking about yourself. The bad news is... after you find out what she's into, maybe you find out you really don't think all that much about her.

And that could be a problem here. Baha'is should listen to and respect people in other religions. But then, what do we got? One Hindu doesn't believe in God and the other doesn't believe in Krishna? You still going to like them for what they are? Hell no, you're going to tell them how wrong they are and show them proof of why there is a God and how God sends divine messengers. Maybe a nice, long, flowery quote that you love and means so much to you and they.... don't read it.

So oops, let's try that again. What do you have in common with them? Peace, love, family, one big all-inclusive human family, and puppy dogs. Even someone like Old Badger. What do you have in common? 'Cause you ain't going to win fighting him. Badgers don't quit... especially old ones.

We can always celebrate our diversity. I think variety adds to beauty. Imagine eating just the same food everyday. I like all the different foods what about you?