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I believe Jesus count Mary Magdalen as a leader!
20"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." And Mary was the one who saw risen Christ first.Throughout the entire Bible. Who were the leaders over the nation of Israel? Men. Who were the apostles, the governing body, etc....? Men.
thanks for the reply, but a simple ... nope Deborah judge all Israel, including male and females.Throughout the entire Bible. Who were the leaders over the nation of Israel? Men. Who were the apostles, the governing body, etc....? Men.
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With that said, "Can holy women/females in Christ be pastors, bishops, and overseers in the body, the Church that he the Lord Jesus built?". if one have a view, or comment, pro, or con, let them be posted with supportive scripture to establish the claim....
20"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." And Mary was the one who saw risen Christ first.
But it is. A new consciousness must emerge.And that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
But it is. A new consciousness must emerge.
OT rules is not what God's idea of acceptable terms of admitting souls in Heaven. Good consciousness is. So referring of male domination in OT times is something that new consciousness would not accommodate. That is what makes that verse from Matthew very relevant.And that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
OT rules is not what God's idea of acceptable terms of admitting souls in Heaven. Good consciousness is. So referring of male domination in OT times is something that new consciousness would not accommodate. That is what makes that verse from Matthew very relevant.
You have right to have an opinion, correct or not, you have right to have it...You're still ranting about the irrelevant.
I agree with almost all of this.I believe that this pertains only to those given an invitation to rule with Christ in his Kingdom. These become spirit creatures who have a specific role. As spirit 'kings and priests' in heaven, gender plays no role. (Revelation 20:6)
In the earthly realm of God's Kingdom, in Israel there were never any female priests or teachers.
Ephesians 4:7-8...
"But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it says,
“When He ascended on high,
He led captive a host of captives,
And He gave gifts to men.” (NASB)
Paul is here quoting Psalm 68:18
In the qualifications for elders in the Christian congregation 1 Timothy 3:says...
"It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."
No mention of women in this role.
Jeremiah 3:15...
"Then I will give you shepherds after My own heart, who will feed you on knowledge and understanding."
Shepherds of the flock in Bible times were always men, both in Israel and in Christianity. It wasn't that women could not teach because they were instructors of their own children (Proverbs 1:8) and any others who wanted to learn about God....but teaching in the congregation was reserved for males only.
Ephesians 5:22-24...
"Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything."
This "subjection" does not sit well with today's women who see equality as their right....but God is the one who designed the sexes to be complimentary.....not competitive. This was not condoning dictatorship because it was based on Christ's treatment of his disciples.....always loving.
In Genesis 2:18 it says...
"Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”
The role of a wife was to be the support crew....the "helper". The husband is head of his wife like Christ is the head of the congregation. God has never changed that arrangement.
When 1 Corinthians was written, Paul also wrote this.....
1Timothy 2:11-13...
" A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve."
So Paul acknowledged God's creation of woman as a support partner. She was not permitted to exercise authority over a man as this was not God arrangement.
1 Corinthians 11:3; 8-9.....
"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ......For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; 9 for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake."
Again, this would not sit well with many of today's women but it was God's arrangement from the beginning. Gender roles were set by our Creator. The thing to note however is that Christ is subject to God....the man is subject to Christ. There is order in God's arrangement.
Those are my scriptural reasons for women keeping to their God assigned role. No women Pastors.
Yes! Mary Magdalen was a leader and she married Jesus! Just because yall don't accept it doesn't make it nott rue.Nope
First thanks for the reply. but we must disagree with your assessment about women not teaching. women can teach, for a bishop is a teacher, "apt to teach". and women as bishops have been establish. but was not the Lord Jesus himself a prophet, and did he not teach? and women are prophets. another woman teacher.I agree with almost all of this.
However, I believe men and women are equal, with different roles to play in the Church, and in the home.
How do we measure equality ? In my view, it is the value God gives to all people of both sexes. Three is no difference.
Teaching is one of a Pastors most important roles, as quoted above, women are not to be teachers, they have other responsibilities.
If both sexes, by the Spirit, accept and perform their responsibilities, the home, and the church functions properly, and are blessed.
( Dejee, I am working on your list of verses we discussed)
Well... I don't know about the others you mentioned. But here's an example that denies the stereotype: Rabbi Meir's wife... she's considered a Sage in the Talmud.Throughout the entire Bible. Who were the leaders over the nation of Israel? Men. Who were the apostles, the governing body, etc....? Men.
Yes! Mary Magdalen was a leader and she married Jesus! Just because yall don't accept it doesn't make it nott rue.
I'm sorry I missed this quote, may we can address it now. we made reference to it but now will address it directly. the qualification as said was directed at men who was married and with a "DESIRE" to obtain the office. if these qualification for a Pastor/Bishop, was only for men, (males), then we have a question. Paul the Apostle, who also was a Bishop/Pastor was not Married, and he was in that office/work. so what's the exception?
I agree with almost all of this.
However, I believe men and women are equal, with different roles to play in the Church, and in the home.
How do we measure equality ? In my view, it is the value God gives to all people of both sexes. Three is no difference.
Teaching is one of a Pastors most important roles, as quoted above, women are not to be teachers, they have other responsibilities.
If both sexes, by the Spirit, accept and perform their responsibilities, the home, and the church functions properly, and are blessed.
( Dejee, I am working on your list of verses we discussed)
Agreed, now you hit the nail on the head there.What I think is getting lost in this discussion is the roles played by the various positions in the original Christian arrangement. There seems to be a disparity between what those roles entailed back then and what they came to mean in an apostate church system in later centuries....when they became positions of rank and authority.
again agreed, for even the apostle Peter was and "ELDER". 1 Peter 5:1 "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:"Peter wrote his words at 1 Peter 5:1 to the “older men.” The Greek word Peter used for “older men” was pre·sby·teʹrous, from which the word “priest” is derived. In Christendom “bishops” are now considered superior to “priests.” But when the apostle Paul “sent to Ephesus and called for the older men [pre·sby·teʹrous] of the congregation,” he said to them, among other things: “Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers [e·pi·skoʹpous].” (Acts 20:17, 28)
she taught Israel, Judges 5:7 "The inhabitants of the villages ceased, they ceased in Israel, until that I Deborah arose, that I arose a mother in Israel."It is true that there were prophetesses in Israel but these were not teachers in the congregations. No one with teaching roles in either Judaism or Christianity were females. The gender roles were clearly identified and women had their own special place in God's arrangement. The roles were never competitive.