Activist atheism

[leov]

Lately I've been studying viewpoints of various atheists, and am disturbed at many of their radical agendas for society. They want to abolish religions, including home school and religious schools. Basically, they consider non-atheists as people not deserving of participation in society, because of viewpoints so obviously incorrect and untrue.

But considering that atheism merely assumes materialism and physicalism, explaining everything in terms of these, their hatred of spiritual beliefs seems unwarranted.

Ignoring atrocities by both atheists and religious, I don't see evidence that improvements to our world are all the result of atheism, and that religion holds us back.

There organizations that are active debunkers , e. g. https://americanhumanist.org/paths/atheism/

 

[leov]

Humanism ! = atheism. That link actually makes it rather clear. You should read it. It's an information dump about atheism, nothing more.

I think you just googled for "atheism" and "organization" and copied the first link you found. It's not actually supportive of OP or even your point about debunking.

/E: I googled "atheism organization" and that link was the fourth one down.

I have about 20 years of experience talking to those people. It was fun.

 

[Darkstorn]

I have about 20 years of experience talking to those people. It was fun.

Who are "those people?"

 

[leov]

Who are "those people?"

Atheists from humanist societies.

 

[Darkstorn]

Atheists from humanist societies.

Oh. Well, humanists *really* want for equal rights for all humans, and it extends to things like opportunity or means. Individual humanists often have negative feelings of religion, but their world view still includes religious people too being cared for equally. Atheists are sometimes NOT humanists. Some are. But i've also seen religious humanists.

So a much more positive message than the one portrayed in the OP.

 

[leov]

Oh. Well, humanists *really* want for equal rights for all humans, and it extends to things like opportunity or means. Individual humanists often have negative feelings of religion, but their world view still includes religious people too being cared for equally. Atheists are sometimes NOT humanists. Some are. But i've also seen religious humanists.

So a much more positive message than the one portrayed in the OP.

I do not have much positive or negative to say about them, a lot of them fake and a lot of them very smart folk I met a few seekers too.

 

[Neutral Name]

Lately I've been studying viewpoints of various atheists, and am disturbed at many of their radical agendas for society. They want to abolish religions, including home school and religious schools. Basically, they consider non-atheists as people not deserving of participation in society, because of viewpoints so obviously incorrect and untrue.

But considering that atheism merely assumes materialism and physicalism, explaining everything in terms of these, their hatred of spiritual beliefs seems unwarranted.

Ignoring atrocities by both atheists and religious, I don't see evidence that improvements to our world are all the result of atheism, and that religion holds us back.

My question would be, would you stick up for Wiccans, Muslims, tribal religions or other non-Christian religions to the extent that you want for you and your family? I know that a Wiccan woman was forced out of the small city I live in by "Chrisitans". I also have heard a lot of derogatory statements about Muslims and I know that many "Christians" consider tribal religions as heathen and something which needs to be changed to Christians. In the past, many people were killed by "Christians" or had their cultures removed so that the good "Christians" could force Jesus on people to save their souls. The interesting thing is that the Bible says to gently evangelize people. I get a little tired of the poor Christians who have every advantage in this country complaining about how horribly they are being treated when they don't even treat others as Jesus said to do. They don't even follow Jesus.

 

[Windwalker]

And like every ideological movement, the radicals are not the dominant voice.

But it is the radicals who are the most vociferous. It's always some outrageous thing that gets all the attention. When someone doesn't know what the other side of the aisle is actually like, the face they see is that of the radicals.

 

[Neutral Name]

My experience what really they truly hate is the allowed moron factor in the church.

Now we do have the total freedom to be a moron and as such the moron factor holds it true as a constitutional right to be a moron. Atheists do allow being a moron constitutional rightn is true, but they balk at the idea that moron is natural or has anything much to or say at all about nature. I mean if nature did allow for moron to be true then there would be no atheists. They then would be believers..

In that case personally i would be an issolated recluse never to be seen again and for moron reality i would be big foot and i would make crop circles for entertainment purposes.

Is jesus a moron? I dont think atheists generally even go there they dont care. They really are more annoyed by morons than anything.

I agree with you with the exception that "Christians" try to control others. They always have down through the centuries. They are afraid that maybe they might have to give that up. It is amazing how much they control in this country yet how much they complain that they are being treated unfairly. They don't care about the rights of atheists to live freely even though they speak about free will for all men. They want to enforce their agenda on everyone-atheists, people of other religions, scientists, you name it. And the biggest secret is that they don't even agree with or like each other. They have tens of thousands of denominations and speak ill of each other. There is much more but that's enough for now.

 

[Windwalker]

Look into the role of religion in Tibet prior to
the good folks from Beijing doing something
about it. Say, that was atheists v goddies!

Am I misreading what you are saying here, but are you seriously claiming that the Chinese government liberated the poor people of Tibet by persecuting its religious leadership? Please tell me you aren't. Do you believe the people of Tibet are happy, as they self-immolate one after the other in the streets in protest?

 

[tayla]

Uh... are you talking about anyone who actually exists?

It doesn't look like you are.

Yes. They are common.

 

[Audie]

Am I misreading what you are saying here, but are you seriously claiming that the Chinese government liberated the poor people of Tibet by persecuting its religious leadership? Please tell me you aren't. Do you believe the people of Tibet are happy, as they self-immolate one after the other in the streets in protest?

Nothing about China is simple. What do you know of
the cultures, languages , and provinces that make up
China? I dont know. So how much must I explain?

A map animated over time would be quite lively!
(Note that in the whole world there are no undisputed
borders, "nations" come and go! See Mexico, Texas,
and USA!)

So what is or is not China? You Americans send
troops to enforce internal cultural differences.

Americans are safe from invasion. One little revolution,
one little civil war. (Simultaneous in China, ten times the
casulaties in a civil war) Invssions, foreign interventions,
revolutions and chaos! Who can tolerate it if they
have a choice.


So, from a strictly practical, amoral pov, China is
determined to achieve security and order.

USA extends its geopolitical military occupation
right to China's borders. China extends to its own
borders. Alas, some do suicide bombs, some burn
themselves alive in these border zones.

Xinjiang and Tibet are of great geopolitical
importance, and they must be under Beijing's
control.

Do you know all of this? This is super simplified.

That the 90% of Tinetns were in terrible poverty
under the grinding heel of a feudal theocracy makes
handy window dressing for an extension of PRC
power into this critical region, but it is, has been, a
province of China and will be treated as such.

Monks self immobolated in Vietnam, too. I doubt
it meant they were commies, wanted Uncle Ho in
charge.

Why did they kill themselves? Do you know?
Why only monks?

No doubt the Tibetan monks want the Han to
go away. What do they want after that?
Do they have the faintest imagination that
Beijing will change anyrhing because of their
sacrifice?

I think Tibet is overall better off.

What do you see differently, why?

 

[Audie]

Yes. They are common.

Like like chupacabra! Everywhere but super hard to
actually photograph.

 

[Quintessence]

But it is the radicals who are the most vociferous. It's always some outrageous thing that gets all the attention. When someone doesn't know what the other side of the aisle is actually like, the face they see is that of the radicals.

Yes, that is a most unfortunate problem.

 

[David T]

I agree with you with the exception that "Christians" try to control others. They always have down through the centuries. They are afraid that maybe they might have to give that up. It is amazing how much they control in this country yet how much they complain that they are being treated unfairly. They don't care about the rights of atheists to live freely even though they speak about free will for all men. They want to enforce their agenda on everyone-atheists, people of other religions, scientists, you name it. And the biggest secret is that they don't even agree with or like each other. They have tens of thousands of denominations and speak ill of each other. There is much more but that's enough for now.

Well church is rapidly fading. With politics, work, pop culture, pro sports, movies, internet, and a passel of distractions what else do we need! And really who has time for it anyway anymore. It is fading into irelevancy with the horse and buggy.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Lately I've been studying viewpoints of various atheists, and am disturbed at many of their radical agendas for society. They want to abolish religions, including home school and religious schools. Basically, they consider non-atheists as people not deserving of participation in society, because of viewpoints so obviously incorrect and untrue.

But considering that atheism merely assumes materialism and physicalism, explaining everything in terms of these, their hatred of spiritual beliefs seems unwarranted.

Ignoring atrocities by both atheists and religious, I don't see evidence that improvements to our world are all the result of atheism, and that religion holds us back.

That's putting a lot into something that is merely, "One without God's".

It seems more of a product of your opinion based on your personal perceptions of who and what an atheist is.

 

[David T]

I agree with you with the exception that "Christians" try to control others. They always have down through the centuries. They are afraid that maybe they might have to give that up. It is amazing how much they control in this country yet how much they complain that they are being treated unfairly. They don't care about the rights of atheists to live freely even though they speak about free will for all men. They want to enforce their agenda on everyone-atheists, people of other religions, scientists, you name it. And the biggest secret is that they don't even agree with or like each other. They have tens of thousands of denominations and speak ill of each other. There is much more but that's enough for now.

Cant disagree. They have managed to heap a whole lot of abuse on three letters and people. I think like anything you have to take folks one at a time.
My degree is theology. I dont believe in God.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Lately I've been studying viewpoints of various atheists, and am disturbed at many of their radical agendas for society. They want to abolish religions, including home school and religious schools. Basically, they consider non-atheists as people not deserving of participation in society, because of viewpoints so obviously incorrect and untrue.

But considering that atheism merely assumes materialism and physicalism, explaining everything in terms of these, their hatred of spiritual beliefs seems unwarranted.

Ignoring atrocities by both atheists and religious, I don't see evidence that improvements to our world are all the result of atheism, and that religion holds us back.

I'm an atheist, and I am pretty sure I don't fit any of your description above. I have no desire to abolish any religion. I would certainly like it if religions could admit the known facts about the world that contradict their dogma, and incorporate those facts so as to be more authentic. Nothing can be "true" that decides to exclude reality. I went to a school run by Quakers, and was very happy there. Even today, I'd recommend it to anyone, and home schooling can work very well, with sufficiently dutiful parents, especially where a child may have special needs that make fitting in harder.

As a humanist, I don't consider anyone, of any religion, not deserving of participation in society. I am like every other human alive...I have beliefs that may not be true, though if I were given evidence they aren't true, I hope that I would look at it carefully. That's what a thoughtful person does, isn't it?

The fact that I am convinced that materialism is essentially true does not mean that I don't accept the need for a non-material, entirely philosophical (or if you'd prefer, spiritual) approach to many questions. I am the first to say that science without a philosophical (in which I include religious or other belief systems) approach to moral and ethical questions is far too dangerous.

So I'm guessing you were addressing atheists other than me...​

 

[Audie]

I'm an atheist, and I am pretty sure I don't fit any of your description above. I have no desire to abolish any religion. I would certainly like it if religions could admit the known facts about the world that contradict their dogma, and incorporate those facts so as to be more authentic. Nothing can be "true" that decides to exclude reality. I went to a school run by Quakers, and was very happy there. Even today, I'd recommend it to anyone, and home schooling can work very well, with sufficiently dutiful parents, especially where a child may have special needs that make fitting in harder.

As a humanist, I don't consider anyone, of any religion, not deserving of participation in society. I am like every other human alive...I have beliefs that may not be true, though if I were given evidence they aren't true, I hope that I would look at it carefully. That's what a thoughtful person does, isn't it?

The fact that I am convinced that materialism is essentially true does not mean that I don't accept the need for a non-material, entirely philosophical (or if you'd prefer, spiritual) approach to many questions. I am the first to say that science without a philosophical (in which I include religious or other belief systems) approach to moral and ethical questions is far too dangerous.

So I'm guessing you were addressing atheists other than me...​

Or, appsrently any other

 

[PruePhillip]

Lately I've been studying viewpoints of various atheists, and am disturbed at many of their radical agendas for society. They want to abolish religions, including home school and religious schools. Basically, they consider non-atheists as people not deserving of participation in society, because of viewpoints so obviously incorrect and untrue.

But considering that atheism merely assumes materialism and physicalism, explaining everything in terms of these, their hatred of spiritual beliefs seems unwarranted.

Ignoring atrocities by both atheists and religious, I don't see evidence that improvements to our world are all the result of atheism, and that religion holds us back.

Did anyone read of the new laws in Germany concerning 12 years old engaging in pack rape?
Read my profile below.
If we are engaging in social engineering (ie banning religion) then we must demonstrate it's for
the Greater Good. Like to see someone try that. And I would like to see someone tell Muslims
they can't worship - they'll sort out the activists.