Science cannot solve the final mystery

[Milton Platt]

re·li·gion
/rəˈlijən/
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noun

1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Do you have another definition? Can you name a religion that does in fact not include a god or higher power?

There ate a number of religions that do not have a god. Non-theistic Buddhism for one.

 

[charlie sc]

Do you have another definition? Can you name a religion that does in fact not include a god or higher power?

Buddhism does not have a god and many Buddhists consider themselves atheists...

 

[ecco]

I believe reality is like an onion and we've barely even scratched its skin. Each layer is more subtle and more difficult to see or understand.

Woo.

 

[cladking]

We "know" them because we formulate them.



Laws of universal form must be distinguished from generalizations, such as “All chairs in this office are gray,” which appear to be accidental. Generalizations, for example, cannot support counterfactual conditional statements such as “If this chair had been in my office, it would be gray” nor subjunctive conditionals such as “If this chair were put in my office, it would be gray.” On the other hand, the statement “All planetary objects move in nearly elliptical paths about their stars” does provide this support. All scientific laws appear to give similar results. The class of universal statements that can be candidates for the status of laws, however, is determined at any time in history by the theories of sciencethen current.

We can "formulate" any "law" we choose but it doesn't make them in any way true. “All chairs in this office are gray,” are mere words and they are words which any two individuals might take differently. A "chair" has no hard and fast definition. Look it up and you'll see how many possible meanings the statement actually has. Indeed, look up the definition of each word in the definition as well and keep this up until you have read the entire dictionary. Of course, you'll need a thesaurus to truly understand the meanings of each word and maybe a few book on engineering to understand "chairs" and psychology to understand the connotations of the words. Indeed, don't stop there because without all human knowledge you won't know a single word. "This" in "this office" is another humdinger. Where does "this" start and where does it end? It's the little words that really make statements impossible including "all", "in", "this", and "are". Is a chair covered in paint that changes color under different light conditions really "grey" or is it off-grey at the moment? What exactly is "grey"? Are we viewing "this" office in old black and white film? Do two individuals see the same grey or does one see red but learned to call it "grey"?

Modern language is a mess and no statement can ever be true outside of its context, axioms, and definitions. Even with clear definitions the complexity of reality can not be reduced so simply as you believe. This can be clearly seen in the nonsense; “All planetary objects move in nearly elliptical paths about their stars”. Defining these words is difficult enough but the definitions strip the reality right out of the essentially true statement. All objects in orbit are actually in orbit with another object. In this case you probably mean to suggest "planets" like Mars or Saturn. Mars and Saturn hardly "orbit" one another even though in reality they each have an effect on the other. But each are in a dance with the sun. The sun also moves in an elliptical orbit "about" Mars (and Saturn). Even little Phobos dances with the sun. This movement of the sun itself is relatively slight and from some perspective is always elliptical but from a fixed perspective such as we use for communication (confused language) this path is beyond infinitely complex because it is affected by every object in the universe and every object is affected by everything which has ever occurred. Every tiny little molecular, atomic, or photonic collision that ever happened is currently reflected in this dance of the sun which isn't obeying any law at all but rather is dancing with reality following a logic which we still don't begin to comprehend and have yet to even begin creating a format so we can understand it. We don't even know or understand the nature of what locks Mars in an unknown orbit with the sun. We don't understand the very nature of gravity yet we think we do because we can measure some of its properties.

 

[cladking]

"I believe reality is like an onion and we've barely even scratched its skin. Each layer is more subtle and more difficult to see or understand."

Woo.

Ancient Language had a word for "reality" that we mistranslate as a specific "God". The "name" of this "God" translates as "the hidden". Just as the inside of an onion with a scratched skin is hidden from us so to is reality itself. We merely "think" we understand reality because we each experience reality in terms of our beliefs. We "see" a scratched onion skin and believe we know what's inside.

The reality is "woo" is the idea we understand "God's laws" or the "laws of nature". The reality is that just like the onion our ignorance has layer upon layer.

 

[Maximilian]

Neither have I, yet I turned out gay. How mighty curious that is. I also never chose to be gay. I mean, who in their right mind would intentionally choose a path filled with abuse and hate? If I could choose I would be straight because it's much easier than being gay.

Since you bring it up, have you ever been physically or emotionally abused?

 

[Maximilian]

Just more evidence for the abuse the JW cult causes.

In your opinion.

 

[Maximilian]

So, the conclusion is that those with ADS are more logical and thereby aren't as inclined to superstition? Or did you mean something else by that?

Feel free to perlustrate the study I linked and see for yourself It's quite fascinating!

 

[Maximilian]

And why do you think that there is no way to convince someone logical that there is a God? Why would an 'extreme processing style' mean someone is unable to correctly explore the evidence?

Because, fundamentally, they can't understand it like they can't understand metaphors or another person's suffering.

 

[Maximilian]

Do you also understand that it is rather rude to suggest people have such a condition merely because they disagree with you? How about giving *logical* reasons for your conclusions instead of suggesting someone else is mentally deficient?

And if they disagree with me not on the basis of evidence or the lack thereof but because their ASD simply prevents them from accepting all of the clear evidence for a transcendent, beginningless, timeless, spaceless, immaterial, unchanging, omnipotent, personal and good being as the efficient cause for our universe's existence, i.e., God Almighty?

 

[Skreeper]

Since you bring it up, have you ever been physically or emotionally abused?

After coming out, yes. School wasn't very easy as the only gay kid.

 

[gnostic]

A religion without a god is just a philosophy on life. I know of no philosophy on life that provides answers to all mysteries.

True, philosophies don’t provide answers to everything, as you can see there are history of many philosophies, each offering their own perspectives of how people view the world, whether it be natural or supernatural, logical or not.

And many of these philosophies don’t agree with other.

And that sound like religions to, because they have their own belief, their own teachings and dogma, and often they caused frictions of not only against other religions, but also each other’s like different sects.

I actually agree with you that there are no single philosophy that has answers to “everything”.

BUT NEITHER DOES ANY SINGLE RELIGION.

In term of the nature, religions, particularly in their scriptures, don’t understand a damn thing about nature, since these so-called holy books rely on belief and faith of supernatural divine beings and on magic which they called “miracles”.

The ancient Greeks kickstarted natural philosophy, which was the precursor to natural science, in the attempt to understand nature with as little superstitions as possible.

Of course, there were few successes and many that were incorrect, but it was a step in the right direction.

And the Natural Philosophy’s collective track records (not only by the Greeks, but to all that followed, eg the Romans, the golden age of Islam, the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, the Age of Enlightenment, the achievements of Natural Philosophy in India and China) were far better than any religious scriptures.

Science is where they were the successes and failures of men and women, who dared to understand nature and to share their knowledge.

God or gods provided no such understanding or knowledge about nature.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Atheists claim to be moral yet they're the ones who push for morally abhorrent acts such as abortion or the marriage of men with boys.

Roe v. Wade is very much the creation of Christian justices appointed predominantly by Republicans. The 1973 decision was 7-2, all seven of the majority being Christians, with five nominated by Republican presidents (Blackmun, Burger, and Powell were all Nixon appointees, a Republican, and Brennan and Stewart were appointed by Republican President Dwight Eisenhower).

Also, it's Christian girls and women ordering up most of the abortions: 70% of Women Who Get Abortions Identify as Christians, Survey Finds

And theists are also responsible for the 5-4 same-sex marriage ruling of 2015 (Obergefell), albeit none were Protestant Christians. Kennedy and Sotomayor are Catholic, and Ginsburg, Breyer, and Kagan Jews

Justice Anthony Kennedy authored the majority opinion and was joined by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, and Elena Kagan are all Jews. Not an atheist in the bunch. Atheists had nothing to do with it, but feel free to smear them anyway. What else do you have but calumny?

Regarding men with boys, another smear, if pedophilia is a burden to you, you might want to redirect your attention to the Christian church. It's famous for it. We a religious scandals playing out locally now here in Mexico near Guadalajara. A Protestant clergyman that heads a huge, international mega-church headquartered in Mexico, but with outreach to other nations, was arrested in Los Angeles for pedophilia.

Don't point your finger our way with your church's lies and slanders. Clean up your own house.

 

[charlie sc]

"I believe reality is like an onion and we've barely even scratched its skin. Each layer is more subtle and more difficult to see or understand."



Ancient Language had a word for "reality" that we mistranslate as a specific "God". The "name" of this "God" translates as "the hidden". Just as the inside of an onion with a scratched skin is hidden from us so to is reality itself. We merely "think" we understand reality because we each experience reality in terms of our beliefs. We "see" a scratched onion skin and believe we know what's inside.

The reality is "woo" is the idea we understand "God's laws" or the "laws of nature". The reality is that just like the onion our ignorance has layer upon layer.

You're comparing, "reality itself," to an onion.

 

[Maximilian]

They do. But the question is one of cause and effect. Can your demonstrate that there is a causal link there? Or did the abuse merely contribute to a condition that already existed? And, do you claim that ALL those with gender dysphoria or homosexual attractions are survivors of sexual abuse? If so, can you document that?

From personal experience I know that my brother became homosexual after he was raped by a man when he was a teen. That said, I also recognize that there are a variety of factors responsible result in someone choosing a homosexual lifestyle from hormonal imbalances to abuse to their rearing so it certainly isn't my claim that everyone sexually abused by someone of their same sex will inevitably become homosexual.

It is also a well documented fact that mental illness is treatable which explains why those suffering from Gender Dysphoria, Sexual Orientation Disorders and the like have successfully become cisgender and/or transitioned to heterosexuality.

 

[Maximilian]

Roe v. Wade is very much the creation of Christian justices appointed predominantly by Republicans. The 1973 decision was 7-2, all seven of the majority being Christians, with five nominated by Republican presidents (Blackmun, Burger, and Powell were all Nixon appointees, a Republican, and Brennan and Stewart were appointed by Republican President Dwight Eisenhower).

Also, it's Christian girls and women ordering up most of the abortions: 70% of Women Who Get Abortions Identify as Christians, Survey Finds

And theists are also responsible for the 5-4 same-sex marriage ruling of 2015 (Obergefell), albeit none were Protestant Christians. Kennedy and Sotomayor are Catholic, and Ginsburg, Breyer, and Kagan Jews

Justice Anthony Kennedy authored the majority opinion and was joined by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, and Elena Kagan are all Jews. Not an atheist in the bunch. Atheists had nothing to do with it, but feel free to smear them anyway. What else do you have but calumny?

Regarding men with boys, another smear, if pedophilia is a burden to you, you might want to redirect your attention to the Christian church. It's famous for it. We a religious scandals playing out locally now here in Mexico near Guadalajara. A Protestant clergyman that heads a huge, international mega-church headquartered in Mexico, but with outreach to other nations, was arrested in Los Angeles for pedophilia.

Don't point your finger our way with your church's lies and slanders. Clean up your own house.

It seems you would like me to believe that those who oppose Christ's teachings are actually Christian. How am I supposed to do that?

 

[Maximilian]

Nope. One homosexual encounter doesn't make one a homosexual any more than trying oysters means that someone prefers to eat them.

And being violently raped by a homosexual pedophile most certainly does result in certain victims becoming homosexual as evinced by my own brother's personal tragedy.

Adversus solem ne loquitor.

 

[Maximilian]

Well, you could restrain yourself from connecting ADS to a mental disorder and suggesting that makes someone unable to follow a logical argument.

Autism is not a neurological disorder? Since when?

 

[Maximilian]

It deals with your diversion about abortion and homosexuality while you continue to avoid my simple straightforward query, which, you'll recall, is, do you believe that only those who believe in God (or, a god) can be moral?

It appears you're not willing to afford me the courtesy of furnishing a straight-forward response to my straight-forward question and yet insist that I satisfy yours. How am I supposed to do that?

 

[Skreeper]

Autism is not a neurological disorder? Since when?

You make it sound like that there are no Christians with ADS which obviously isn't true.