The implications of God's existence or lack thereof

[Trailblazer]

How do you feel about ignosticism and apatheism, which turn out to be stances I take part in?

Well, as a Baha'i, I believe that God is beyond definition, other than that God is the Creator, a Supreme Being, All-Powerful, All-Knowing and All-Wise, and but that is about it... We can never know the Essence (intrinsic nature) of God.

Far as I can tell, attempts at using the god-concept a lot end up causing a lot more of confusion and misunderstanding that clarification, because "God" can mean such wildly diverging things for different people or even at different times. Belief, however, has significance, and brings with it considerable responsibility. While many people seem to think of it as a refuge of sorts, I think that is a very ill fit for the actual duties that it brings.

Ain't that the truth. However, if God exists, God is what God is, not what people believe God is. So to me it makes the most sense to try to figure out what God is, as much as we can know, which is very little.

Ain't that the truth. Most nonbelievers I converse with think believers believe in God as some kind of psychological pacifier, an escape from the real world... They do not understand the responsibility it entails to be answerable to a Supreme Being.

 

[Shaheen]

brother the word god means not created and i am sure that is the meaning of god

 

[Trailblazer]

brother the word god means not created and i am sure that is the meaning of god

Correct. God has always existed.

 

[sun rise]

No we don't.

I used the word "many" so you're disputing that "many"?

 

[LuisDantas]

Ain't that the truth. Most nonbelievers I converse with think believers believe in God as some kind of psychological pacifier, an escape from the real world... They do not understand the responsibility it entails to be answerable to a Supreme Being.

WIth all due respect, I am not sure it makes sense to conceive of a Supreme Being that would expect people to be answerable to it.

 

[shunyadragon]

I used the word "many" so you're disputing that "many"?

Even with "many" there is a problem with a loose simplistic generalization "Many believe" in your post.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Listening to non believers wax on and on about God is such a waste of time!! They just don't get it.

In a sense, that is by definition true.
The focus of an atheist is on the impact of belief versus non-belief, and of the impact of particular religions.
In short, I don't believe in God, but Catholicism (as an example) is an undeniable fact.

I can't 'get' God.
I would make the point, though, that whilst some believers may claim to 'get' God, they won't agree to what it is they 'get'.

In any case, re: @Trailblazer's original point....

Speaking as an outsider in a sense, I would say the following;

1) You'll get a great discussion on God, and the implications of belief/non-belief from some of the non-believers here. However, the natural skew on such a conversation will be more around belief vs non-belief, which might not be quite what you're after. There is also the risk of theists being commonly more exposed to Western religious concepts, and specifically Abrahamaic religious concepts.

SO

2) I'd speak to some of the posters more familiar with 'Eastern' religious concepts. I think that might lead to a more enlightening discussion, if I'm understanding your desire properly.

Just a hot-take though.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Absolutely not. No thinking atheist or agnostic believes the big bang happened for no reason. Their position is simply one of; we don't know the reason. Ignorance is not denial.

.

Personally, I don't know the reason, don't even know there was a Big Bang, and wonder why people keep trying to box me up in such a way. It's kinda weird.

 

[Trailblazer]

In any case, re: @Trailblazer's original point....

Speaking as an outsider in a sense, I would say the following;

1) You'll get a great discussion on God, and the implications of belief/non-belief from some of the non-believers here. However, the natural skew on such a conversation will be more around belief vs non-belief, which might not be quite what you're after. There is also the risk of theists being commonly more exposed to Western religious concepts, and specifically Abrahamaic religious concepts.

I like discussions with nonbelievers regarding belief vs non-belief. The forum I had been primarily posting on for four years was mostly nonbelievers but they were not nice like the nonbelievers here.

 

[Trailblazer]

Don't know what religion this is, but these two reasons do bring a couple of thoughts to mind.

1. Why would the creator, I assume god, care that you know him? What is to be gained by creating creatures to know you?​

God does not care if we know Him for His sake but He wants us to know Him for our own sake. God does not need anything from humans because God is self-sufficient.

2. Why does this god need to be worshiped. Psychologically, this isn't a healthy need: "I need creatures to worship me."

Again, God does not need our worship for His sake, it is for our sake that God wants us to worship Him.​

Don't know what your focusing on god consists of, but what is gained by doing so?
Is the time you spend on god actually cutting into your "many material world duties," or are you using the attention you give to god as a scapegoat to avoid attending to your worldly needs?
Only you can answer your wants.

It consists of being on forums more than I probably should. God is not getting the attention, people are getting the attention. I get things done but not as many things as I would get done otherwise, but I believe God is more important than those things. I did those things for decades and what did they get me? Well, they got me a lot of financial stability so now I can afford to pay people to do the things I do not know how to or want to do. But now I have to have time to find the people...

 

[Trailblazer]

Welcome to RF and thank you for raising the question of God in our lives.
I listened to a debate recently between Richard Dawkins and atheist and John Lennox a Christian.
I was struck by how much I could learn from the insights of both atheists and Christians.

Yes, I have been conversing on other forums mostly with atheists for four years, and a few Christians and Jews and Buddhists. I have learned a lot from them.

My own personal journey is having grown up with Christianity and agnosticism, I became a Baha'i after a 5 year search at age 26. That was nearly 28 years ago. During that time I explored Buddhism and Hinduism as well as the Christian Faith.

I grew up with no religion at all, I never even thought about God or opened a Bible. I ran into Baha'i when I was 17 and became a Baha'i two weeks later. Everyone in my nuclear family also became Baha'is. I fell away from the Faith for decades and only decided to come back about five years ago. I never had what I would call a relationship with God so that is kind of what I am working on.

In regards my spiritual life the practices are simple. A short obligatory prayer recited once a day, reciting from sacred writings morning and evening, saying the greatest name of God, studying the writings of my religion and trying each day to put it into practice, sharing the little I know with others, and assisting in the life of my community through my work, family, and faith community.

That sounds like a lot. I do not do half of that but then I have very little time because I have lots of material world responsibilities and I spend the rest of my time on forums. Also, I am an introvert and do not enjoy socializing in person so I do not get out to activities, not that I have any time anyway.

Great to have you here.

Thanks. Great to be here and see some fellow Baha'is.

 

[Trailblazer]

I would be very happy to engage in such a discussion. We will first have to define god/God/gods to examine the hypothetical consequences that a belief or lack thereof entails.

I am happy to use my definition, but would prefer if we worked with the same definition. So if you would like to suggest one, I will give you that opportunity. Otherwise, I can suggest my definition and we can work from there.

I am open to talking about anything you want to talk about. I am very open.

 

[dfnj]

Atheists believe the big bang just happened for no reason. Many theists believe that the big bang happened because of God.

The Big Bang was the result of a star collapsing to black hole in another previously existing space-time dimension. Black holes create white holes.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jumi said... Quite a complex question that probably depends on "what is God" and if your God is same as mine.
I believe there is only One God, the God who created the universe, the God that revealed all the major religions through His Messengers (Prophets).

Belief alone is not much. It doesn't get one to heaven. It's very human.
I am not concerned about getting to heaven. I just want to do what is right.

You'd be surprised that theists and atheists often feel the same as you do, but use different words for it. It would be accurate to say this is something more felt by introverts.
Thanks, I would never know unless someone told me how they feel, which is one reason I post these threads.

Do good, meditate, pray. It's better than rituals.
I try to do good, I pray a little, but I do not meditate. I have no rituals.

Balance is not easy to achieve. Back when I was an atheist I had a hobby that took maybe 8+ hours of my daily time, felt like everything else was a distraction and people were complaining about my use of time. I ended up dumping the hobby and being a bit happier already.
Forums have become my hobby and I have found it difficult to dump them... I have so many other things I need to do though, most of which I do not want to do.

 

[Trailblazer]

It doesn't matter when you really think about things. Belief and its implications are just that. It really doesn't alter the timeline or the universe and the way it works. Things go as they go.

Thanks. I like Buddhist philosophy. I live solely in the present moment. I rarely think about the future. Whatever will happen will happen.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you found eternal life and knowing how you will transfer into, you know the implacation of Gods existence already.

The lack of God is our Will to find him. Minds are unaware if God already exists to them. Who will seek for something they havn't lost? Or, who will see God's importance if God's presence wasnt able to withdraw God from them?

Believe matters because its the hope to find God (again). Every scripture, are more or less, a framework to find God. We humans are gifted to think of something which isnt here. E.g.: If love is truth only can be found out from the beloved. But how do they know there are be loved if it hasnt been taken away?

I think I know some of the implications of God's existence but of course I do not know all of them. That is why I threw this out for ideas. You raise a very good point that I had not thought of. It is the lack of God in our life that causes us to go looking for God. I guess that is where I am at. God is a concept, God is a word, God is part of my belief, but I feel no personal connection to God, not most of the time anyway. People say to pray and meditate but that does not help much.

 

[Trailblazer]

WIth all due respect, I am not sure it makes sense to conceive of a Supreme Being that would expect people to be answerable to it.

Answerable was the wrong word. Accountable is better, only because we need to be accountable to something greater than ourselves. Otherwise, anything goes for most people. Of course, there are a lot of nonbelievers who hold themselves accountable without a God.

 

[Curious George]

First definition everyone can agree on - God is a three letter word.

Second definition - The 'Source' of all of existence some call God(s). Most Theists and Deists would agree.

Unfortunately, I can't agree on the second. While I don't mind using that definition if that is what we would like to pursue, it does not encapsulate many of what we would consider gods.

Take for instance gods of the Greek pantheon. These gods could be born and were obviously not the source of all that existed as something existed before them.

 

[Curious George]

I am open to talking about anything you want to talk about. I am very open.

Very well. As I have posted before, this is my definition of a god:

A god = an intelligent, immortal entity that has a degree of control over all things in the universe and more control over at least one specific aspect of the universe than any mortal thing.

Would you object to that definition at all? Do you agree with that definition?

 

[Skwim]

God does not care if we know Him for His sake but He wants us to know Him for our own sake. God does not need anything from humans because God is self-sufficient.​

​

But if he never created us there would be no need for us to know him. Your position is like saying that it's good we invented gas engines so we would have a reason to drill for oil.

Again, God does not need our worship for His sake, it is for our sake that God wants us to worship Him.

So what begging need does worshiping a supernatural being fulfill?

It consists of being on forums more than I probably should.

And this is what is gained?

.