DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Yes. Everything Jesus said and did was 100% God's will. Jesus said that doing His Father's will was His food and drink. The only reason He came was to do His Father's will, to fulfill all righteousness.
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Jesus did not crucify himself.Yes. Everything Jesus said and did was 100% God's will. Jesus said that doing His Father's will was His food and drink. The only reason He came was to do His Father's will, to fulfill all righteousness.
Jesus did not crucify himself.
Did you give up thinking?So? What's your point?
Did Jesus crucify himself, according to your superior whatever?Yes. Everything Jesus said and did was 100% God's will. Jesus said that doing His Father's will was His food and drink. The only reason He came was to do His Father's will, to fulfill all righteousness.
Did you give up thinking?
You said
Did Jesus crucify himself, according to your superior whatever?
God actually inserted a trick law into the Mosaic Law for the sake of this. This was, as Paul explains, so that Christ could be cursed in our steads. The law which had no function at all except targeting the killing of Messiah stated that anyone hung on wood would be cursed. In that way, even a sinless, perfect human being could be cursed.This question is for Christians. It was brought to my attention that some Christians don't believe God wanted Christ to be crucified.
I just don't know how a person could make the argument that God didn't want it.
Didn't Jesus make it clear that that was part of his Ministry to be a sacrificial lamb and suffer and die for sin to be atoned? When it was time for him to die, he said "now has the time come for the son of man to be glorified". He spoke about it like it was a good thing. In the end it glorified him.
If you don't believe God wanted Christ to be crucified, please give your reason and explanation. Thank you.
Did Jesus make the Romans crucify him?If you have read the Gospels then you know what I think. I think it happened just as it is written.
This question is for Christians. It was brought to my attention that some Christians don't believe God wanted Christ to be crucified.
I just don't know how a person could make the argument that God didn't want it.
Didn't Jesus make it clear that that was part of his Ministry to be a sacrificial lamb and suffer and die for sin to be atoned? When it was time for him to die, he said "now has the time come for the son of man to be glorified". He spoke about it like it was a good thing. In the end it glorified him.
If you don't believe God wanted Christ to be crucified, please give your reason and explanation. Thank you.
If God's will was for Jesus to be crucified then the ones doing the deed were doing God's will and it was THEY who crucified Jesus.
Did Jesus make the Romans crucify him?
Did Jesus make the Romans crucify him?
YOU said, "Jesus always did the will of God". Did you not say that?Jesus also didn't tempt Himself but it was God's will that Satan tempt Him. You're not making much sense. Just because someone else nailed Jesus to the cross does not mean God's will was not fulfilled.
Not sure of a specific reference to crucified in the texts, Isaiah 53, etc; yet 'put to death with the wicked' is quite clear...
'It pleased God to crush him'... Is again a very bold statement that it was predetermined...
Yet the context of what happens because of it tho, is far more complex, and thus proves its validity by its preciseness.
In my opinion.
To say God broke the 6th commandment isn't viable; thus we've got to question, what other contexts apply, according to the prophecies in the Tanakh, it was the leaders of the people who paid the small price (Zechariah 11) divorcing themselves, and causing their own destruction (Daniel 9).
Also saying the employed Roman executioners committed the crime is silly.
Psalms 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.
Personally find it like a riddle with a clear answer, yet most want a simple solution to a complex puzzle.
God actually inserted a trick law into the Mosaic Law for the sake of this. This was, as Paul explains, so that Christ could be cursed in our steads. The law which had no function at all except targeting the killing of Messiah stated that anyone hung on wood would be cursed. In that way, even a sinless, perfect human being could be cursed.
In my opinion that is the dumbest argument ever:Except that the suffering servant in 53 is the Hebrew people.
Why I should even bother answer an anti-Christian - is my error this time. Such as you ignore what the Christian teachings are, and I frankly don't care. Still, here is what the Christian scriptures say:That is taken out of context. Read the text from the top. We have how to handle murdered people, and how to handle criminals condemned to death, don't leave them up to be a blasphemy to God, and rotting corpses obviously defile the land.
22 If a man commits a sin for which he is sentenced to death, and he is put to death, you shall [then] hang him on a pole.
23 But you shall not leave his body on the pole overnight. Rather, you shall bury him on that [same] day, for a hanging [human corpse] is a blasphemy of God, and you shall not defile your land, which the Lord, your God, is giving you as an inheritance.
Devarim - Deuteronomy - Chapter 21 (Parshah Shoftim and Ki Teitzei)
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In my opinion that is the dumbest argument ever:
If we just ignore all contexts of the chapter, then maybe we could make it fit in my opinion.
- They did not fulfill Isaiah 53:1 which links with Isiah 28:9-19 (rumor to rumor), and the 'arm of the lord' in Isaiah 52:10 (Yeshuat Eloeinhu) + Psalms 98
- They were seen as a majestic nation, which was desired by many; they still are presented as a chosen people, which is desired by many.
- They are not in a depressed state, and not disliked by people; that is a self loathing statement, people like the Jews.
- They have not carried anyone's suffering or sins; they have been cursed, yet not that anyone acknowledges that, and sees them as accursed.
- They have not been pierced for anyone's sins, they've not been crushed/put to death/tortured as a sin offering for anyone else.
- They have not had everyone's sins put on them; tho they might have helped confused all the sheep, yet they're not directly responsible.
- They have not been silent as they were slaughtered, neither was it done in the form of a sin offering.
- The disobedience of the 'people' is the Hebrew people; yet then they can't be the person who is cut off from the land of the living for their sins.
- They were not put to death with the wicked or rich, and are clearly not free of violence or deceit.
- They were put to death for part of the plan, yet not as a sin offering.
- They haven't carried anyone's sins, their knowledge has not lead many to righteousness, neither have they arrived at the light from their actions of being put to death.
- They haven't got an inheritance to share with the strong, they've not continued teaching the things of God until death, and then acted as an intercessor for people's sins.
Why I should even bother answer an anti-Christian - is my error this time. Such as you ignore what the Christian teachings are, and I frankly don't care. Still, here is what the Christian scriptures say:
Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.Also, from the OT - different translations
Deuteronomy 21: 23 His body shall not remain upon the tree, but shall be buried the same day: for he is accursed of God that hangeth on a tree: and thou shalt not defile thy land, which the Lord thy God shall give thee in possession. (DRC)In this then, we have two witnesses to my statement, one from the OT and one from Paul. That your translation doesn't say this directly, while the DRC and others state this clearly and also corroborate Paul's interpretation of this, is enough to prove my point. Even modern English translations contain this:
ESV: 23 his body shall not remain all night on the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is cursed by God. You shall not defile your land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance.Here the man hung on a tree it says clearly, followed by "or a hanged man is cursed by God." So, a man hung on a tree is cursed; but, I don't expect you to agree. And, I don't care. Let the reader read, let the reader meditate on the scriptures and see if what I quote is according to scripture, all scripture.
Isaiah 52:1-9 is a different timeline, as no longer shall uncircumcised enter Jerusalem, only those clean shall enter, so that is Messianic age time.Read it in context. Look at 52.
Isaiah 52:10 has Yeshua Elohim at the end of it (salvation from our God), so it is specifically stating that Yeshua is the servant listed, not Israel.(See Isa 52:9-13.)
This is where sheep have been led astray; that says Jacob is his servant; not the generations to come, it is the promise made to Jacob that shall be upheld... The people are under a curse; not some chosen vessel anymore.Isa 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob
Paul was educated at the feet of a Pharisee. His writing teach us more than any of the other apostles. You speak of a translation site for Jews. I say, 2000 years ago, I think they knew more than they do today having rejected Messiah.That is the JEWISH translation from a JEWISH site, of their OWN text.
And I might add, - did you miss that it starts with If a man commit a sin for which he is condemned to death...?
Was Jesus out there committing sin? Was Jesus condemned to death for SINS he commited??? NOPE!
Not about Jesus!
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