How many White Nationalists are on RF?

[Revoltingest]

Sign language has some localized elements. American sign language is different than English sign language, for example. But not so different that it wouldn't be more like a dialect thing. Mexican sign language is entirely different from Spanish sign language, though. The latter of which having more similarities with Portugese sign language.

Why don't all these mute people just speak English!

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Why don't all these mute people just speak English!

Usually the sign languages are developed by deaf communities since it's a more common factor than muteness, and most living in the US and England do read and write in English. Some can speak it too, but being unable to hear yourself talk often makes it slurred a little.
Both use a signed alphabet that is English to cover names, some locations without an, independent sign, or for words people don't know the correct sign for.
But different countries have different alphabets, though.

(Haw, turned your humorous aside into further information dumping!)

 

[Revoltingest]

Usually the sign languages are developed by deaf communities since it's a more common factor than muteness, and most living in the US and England do read and write in English. Some can speak it too, but being unable to hear yourself talk often makes it slurred a little.
Both use a signed alphabet that is English to cover names, some locations without an, independent sign, or for words people don't know the correct sign for.
But different countries have different alphabets, though.

(Haw, turned your humorous aside into further information dumping!)

Curses!
Foiled again!

 

[Laika]

I remember watching Native Americans perform at cultural events and how proud they were in sharing their culture with everyone else, also many people of African descent wearing colorful clothing talking about their Heritage and sharing items used by their ancestors, it made me think, with some envy wishing I was them, caused me to ask myself what do I as a white person, have to show for my heritage and background that I can be proud of and share?

That I can understand given that we've lost our own culture to global capitalism and consumerism, only to become alien to one another. There isn't the sense of "togetherness" as everyone is just an "individual" and isn't part of a whole. The sense of "White Guilt" has led to a destructive assault on many of "western" (or "white") achievements rather than a process of healing and new positive identities. There is something deeply reactionary and regressive in that built on self-loathing and self-hatred rather than self-affirmation.

There are some elements of White Nationalism I can understand if you take the racism out of it as globalisation has so drastically redrawn the meaning of national identity and the role of the nation state. the ruling class couldn't just re-draw the map as if all the cultural and historical traditions didn't exist, so a "revolt" was perhaps inevitable as people reasserted a national identity. they tried drawing arbitrary lines for borders in the Middle East and we probably still dealing with some of the ethnic tensions left over now.

I hope there is a way to express that outside of White Nationalism of course, but everything I've said above is still partly just a repetition of the neo-nazi talking points. its hard to separate the real grievances from the imagined ones.

 

[Mister Emu]

Being a nationalist, I would of course sympathise with some arguments; but I mostly despise white nationalist movements and their statements.

 

[Nous]

I actually heard something similar. An older Baptist fellow made the statement, "If the King James Bible was good enough for the Apostle Paul, then its good enough for me."

Perhaps what you heard is correct. My post seems to be erroneous in more than one way. Miriam Ferguson, the first female Governor of Texas (1925-1927 and 1933-1935):

. . . is often credited with a quote allegedly spoken in reference to bilingualism in Texas schools: “If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it ought to be good enough for the children of Texas.”[7] However, variations of this going back to 1881 were often used to ridicule the claimed backwardness of various unnamed Christians, which supports the argument that the attribution to Ferguson is false.[8]​

Miriam A. Ferguson - Wikipedia

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I remember watching Native Americans perform at cultural events and how proud they were in sharing their culture with everyone else, also many people of African descent wearing colorful clothing talking about their Heritage and sharing items used by their ancestors, it made me think, with some envy wishing I was them, caused me to ask myself what do I as a white person, have to show for my heritage and background that I can be proud of and share?

My family is from Norway. There's still a lot of culture to celebrate.

That I can understand given that we've lost our own culture to global capitalism and consumerism, only to become alien to one another. There isn't the sense of "togetherness" as everyone is just an "individual" and isn't part of a whole. The sense of "White Guilt" has led to a destructive assault on many of "western" (or "white") achievements rather than a process of healing and new positive identities. There is something deeply reactionary and regressive in that built on self-loathing and self-hatred rather than self-affirmation.

There are some elements of White Nationalism I can understand if you take the racism out of it as globalisation has so drastically redrawn the meaning of national identity and the role of the nation state. the ruling class couldn't just re-draw the map as if all the cultural and historical traditions didn't exist, so a "revolt" was perhaps inevitable as people reasserted a national identity. they tried drawing arbitrary lines for borders in the Middle East and we probably still dealing with some of the ethnic tensions left over now.

I hope there is a way to express that outside of White Nationalism of course, but everything I've said above is still partly just a repetition of the neo-nazi talking points. its hard to separate the real grievances from the imagined ones.

What do you think about the idea of a future of such globalization that race (such as it is) no longer becomes a factor and everyone can simply enjoy whatever culture they are drawn to?
Is it positive because it opens doors that were previously closed by cultural appropriation and the history of colonialism and their impact on racial minorities? Or is it a negative thing because of the loss of individual attachment to cultural identities by bloodlines?
Or both or neither?

 

[WalterTrull]

Isn't it a shame that in order to bond, to feel a sense of community, we seem to need to hate/fear those other people.

 

[George-ananda]

Blaming the media?

I am saying cable and internet news focus a disproportionate amount of attention on these groups and people fanning emotions all over the place that almost predictably spill over into provoking some extremists to violence.

So if the media isn't directly to blame I think they are at least causative of the perceived degradation in national racial harmony in the past two to three years.

 

[Twilight Hue]

My family is from Norway. There's still a lot of culture to celebrate.

What do you think about the idea of a future of such globalization that race (such as it is) no longer becomes a factor and everyone can simply enjoy whatever culture they are drawn to?
Is it positive because it opens doors that were previously closed by cultural appropriation and the history of colonialism and their impact on racial minorities? Or is it a negative thing because of the loss of individual attachment to cultural identities by bloodlines?
Or both or neither?

That's a hard call. A homogenized people would seem to hold a key for a progressive society not held back by prejudices and cultural superiority but in doing so, can prove detrimental in expressing out the many differences and uniqueness that is inherent, and arguably essential for every individual to be, and stay healthy.

I've always felt a proper balance is needed here.

Not going too far in one direction or another where it ends up in the extremes and results disasterous.

 

[Nous]

I remember watching Native Americans perform at cultural events and how proud they were in sharing their culture with everyone else, also many people of African descent wearing colorful clothing talking about their Heritage and sharing items used by their ancestors, it made me think, with some envy wishing I was them, caused me to ask myself what do I as a white person, have to show for my heritage and background that I can be proud of and share?

That I can understand given that we've lost our own culture to global capitalism and consumerism, only to become alien to one another. There isn't the sense of "togetherness" as everyone is just an "individual" and isn't part of a whole.

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! Capitalism, consumerism, alienation--that is white culture! Stop knocking it!

 

[jonathan180iq]

Sign language has some localized elements. American sign language is different than English sign language, for example. But not so different that it wouldn't be more like a dialect thing. Mexican sign language is entirely different from Spanish sign language, though. The latter of which having more similarities with Portugese sign language.

That's a fair retort.

 

[Laika]

What do you think about the idea of a future of such globalization that race (such as it is) no longer becomes a factor and everyone can simply enjoy whatever culture they are drawn to?

The idea that "everyone can simply enjoy whatever culture they are drawn to" is probably still part of the capitalist-individualist culture in which nationality is a choice. Nationality is something we are born into and are organically part of because we grow up in a specific place with all the customs and norms of that society. I think certain people can move around the globe, but for the majority they can't choose which nation they are part of. I think nationality is something you live with. it doesn't have to be a big part of who you are, but I will still be a Brit whether I'm in America or China. my first language is English and even if I learn a second language, I'm still going to be an English speaker in a way.

Is it positive because it opens doors that were previously closed by cultural appropriation and the history of colonialism and their impact on racial minorities? Or is it a negative thing because of the loss of individual attachment to cultural identities by bloodlines?
Or both or neither?

I think there are positives to a nationalist resurgence are that we can push back against the way globalisation simply destroys the uniqueness of a culture. Where ever you go, McDonalds will be the same (with perhaps a few changes in the menu). I live in a rural area so travel is pretty difficult and I've made something of an adventure of it. But the strange thing was that as I went through each town on the bus and stopped their for maybe an hour, I would find the highstreets have the same shops, and I'd be going to a different branch of Waterstones, but still looking at roughly the same selection of books in a near identical shop layout. I haven't travelled very much, but I can imagine that being played out across whole countries, and it would seem to represent a loss of diversity amongst corporate conformity. diversity isn't something you buy in a shop, it should be part of the fabric of our everyday lives if it is to be really authentic.

For what it is worth, as someone who would deeply want to believe in social equality, I have found that I still harbour a great man racial predjucies. I am part of an environment that has simply tried to "hide" racism by putting it out of view, but the reality is still there under the surface. I have become sceptical of political correctness as a way to deal with the symptoms and hide the problems, rather than begin to look at solutions. In this sense, I do agree with the "alt-right" but rather as a "leftist" who supports the goals of political correctness but recognises new methods need to be tried. If nothing else, the success of the far right means it clearly is not working.

Nationalism works both ways. You have countries who used Nationalism as a means to assert their sovereignty and independence as part of decolonisation. The problem with the Nationalism of the "West" was it was so closely tied with dominating other countries through war, conquest and colonisation. this is the really big negative coming out of it as racism and racial superiority start to rear their heads again. I want to believe there is another way because we are all part of the human race even if we still have different national groupings. there is no reason why nations should automatically want to go to war with one another if we can work together to benefit each other. I'd support a form of globalisation (I'd even support world government or a "United States of Europe" on paper) but it has to draw from the bottom-up as a source of strength. you cannot impose integration from the top-down.

This is admittedly an issue I'm new to as before Brexit, I had never really questioned whether nationalism could also be "progressive". I'm confused and a bit shocked by what is going on but still hopeful. we are not born to hate one another even if we may live in a vast world of strangers we may never know.

 

[Nous]

I am saying cable and internet news focus a disproportionate amount of attention on these groups and people fanning emotions all over the place that almost predictably spill over into provoking some extremists to violence.

So if the media isn't directly to blame I think they are at least causative of the perceived degradation in national racial harmony in the past two to three years.

You're taking a page out of Trump's playbook here. Cable and intenet news outlets have 24 hours per day to fill with "news". They have to cover something. It wasn't news coverage of the demonstration that motivated someone to mow down a bunch of counterprotestors with his car.

And how has there been any greater "perceived degradation in national racial harmony in the past two or three years"? Claims that the President was born not in the US but in Africa began around the time the first man who looks like he might have a little African ancestry was elected President.

 

[Laika]

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! Capitalism, consumerism, alienation--that is white culture! Stop knocking it!

lol.

I believe that any culture could have produced the industrial revolution, so its not just white culture. it was a question of scientific knowledge, technology and economics rather than race. In an alternate reality, China might have been the engine of the world, colonised the Americas and plundered its riches. Or the Aztecs could have used free trade to export tomatoes, potatoes and get the world addicted to chocolate. Or Africans started an Atlantic Slave Trade of White Europeans to fuel their colonies in the Americas. Or the Islamic Golden Age could have continued so that the Middle East had such scientific and technological superiority that it conquered Europe and turned us all into Muslims under a caliphate.

ok... now I sound like a White Nationalist.

 

[Laika]

@ADigitalArtist In case it doesn't come up again, I'd want to share the Wikipedia page on "left-wing nationalism". It tries to combine social equality and national sovereignty whilst rejecting the "ethnic nationalism" of the right/far right. This is new territory for me but it does exist and there are historical precedents for it with people like Gandhi and Nelson Mandela in there (along with some negative ones as well). There is still something of an opportunity in these strange times if people are open to it.

 

[Nous]

lol.

I believe that any culture could have produced the industrial revolution, so its not just white culture. it was a question of scientific knowledge, technology and economics rather than race. In an alternate reality, China might have been the engine of the world, colonised the Americas and plundered its riches. Or the Aztecs could have used free trade to export tomatoes, potatoes and get the world addicted to chocolate. Or Africans started an Atlantic Slave Trade of White Europeans to fuel their colonies in the Americas. Or the Islamic Golden Age could have continued so that the Middle East had such scientific and technological superiority that it conquered Europe and turned us all into Muslims under a caliphate.

ok... now I sound like a White Nationalist.

There seems to me to be a degree of paradox (or paradoxes) on the issue of "races," cultures and technological development. IQ tests may mean little, but Asians consistently score higher on them than "white" people do the world over. Yet, right now, at the moment the majority of Asians do not live in the most technologically advanced societies. Also no one can deny the scientific knowledge of the early Islamic culture--what happened there?

 

[Laika]

There seems to me to be a degree of paradox (or paradoxes) on the issue of "races," cultures and technological development. IQ tests may mean little, but Asians consistently score higher on them than "white" people do the world over. Yet, right now, at the moment the majority of Asians do not live in the most technologically advanced societies. Also no one can deny the scientific knowledge of the early Islamic culture--what happened there?

I don't know. But I'm willing to go with a non-racial answer given that any person who claims that race determines intellect or moral qualities is on very shaky ground both scientifically and morally. I think the recent breakthroughs in DNA have also shown that "race" itself is something of a myth based only on physical appearance as the genetic links are everywhere and nations are nowhere near as homogeneous as they would appear.

 

[Nous]

I don't know. But I'm willing to go with a non-racial answer given that any person who claims that race determines intellect or moral qualities is on very shaky ground both scientifically and morally. I think the recent breakthroughs in DNA have also shown that "race" itself is something of a myth based only on physical appearance as the genetic links are everywhere and nations are nowhere near as homogeneous as they would appear.

I agree totally.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So far, no white nationalists. There really isn't much diversity of views in this site.