"Donald Trump Says Transgender People Won’t Be Allowed To Serve In Military"

[Jeremiahcp]

Wow. Just.... wow.

That this kind of callous attitude still exists is why it is so important to protect the rights of minority groups.

It is just a matter of time until people with views like his are in that 1%.

 

[esmith]

I have only one thing to say.
The military should not be used as a petri dish for social engineering.

 

[Quintessence]

It is just a matter of time until people with views like his are in that 1%.

If only I could be that optimistic. After our last farce of an election, and its aftermath, I just can't.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I have only one thing to say.
The military should not be used as a petri dish for social engineering.

Good grief, the same recycled arguments over and over. They said that about integrating blacks and whites, they said that about gays, they said that about women. Yet the military has yet to implode on itself, so if that is the one and only thing you have to say, guess what? It has been said and proven wrong time and time again.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

If only I could be that optimistic. After our last farce of an election, and its aftermath, I just can't.

There are ups and downs, but if you look close enough at American history you can see there is strong progression forward.

 

[esmith]

Good grief, the same recycled arguments over and over. They said that about integrating blacks and whites, they said about gays, they said that about women. Yet the military has yet to implode on itself, so if that is the one and only thing you have to say, guess what? It has been said and proven wrong time and time again.

No I had a few more things to say but decided against it.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

No I had a few more things to say but decided against it.

Well I am sure they were equally worthless.

 

[suncowiam]

I have only one thing to say.
The military should not be used as a petri dish for social engineering.

Luckily, you're a white straight male, so good for you for making such a biased statement.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You don't want to bunk up with Mary who used to be Matt, and that makes you a bigot?

Since we are discussing the military, it make you insubordinate.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You don't want to bunk up with Mary who used to be Matt, and that makes you a bigot?

Pretty much ...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I have only one thing to say.
The military should not be used as a petri dish for social engineering.

Or as a refuge for disgusting bigotry.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I don't know, as views have changed a lot over the last 20 years, people are far more accepting these days.

However, the American Way of Life (or the American Spirit, or American Dream, whatever you want to call it) is more than what is the popular view is; it is goal yet to be achieved. At its core the American essences is to better than we are today. I have spent a lot of time studying the culture I was born into trying to understand what the American Way of Life is and I can only conclude, by looking at our history, that it is to be better than we currently are and it is goal to be achieved.

The essences of America, at its core has a strong favor for equality. Something we don't have yet, but something we have been working towards, and the military, as the protectors of our way of life, should reflect this.

I'm a history buff, and whilst I'd admit American history is not exactly my strong suit, I think it would be fair to say the American Dream has always been a little fuzzy, and more attainable for some within American society than others.
The idea of 'equality' is also pretty interesting. It was 1957 before all Native Americans were allowed to vote, for example.

I don't say this to belittle America. Far from it. It is basically exactly the same in my country.

I get what you mean about the American Dream being something to strive for, rather than something already attained. I just think you should be careful overstating what a utopian America looks like for it's various citizens, and make any assumptions of commonality apart from the usual motherhood statements about freedom and prosperity, and a 'fair go' or similar.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Trump can't just say things and they happen. It's a process, and if anything - in this regard - Mattis would have more say. And Mattis has gone on record as saying he doesn't care, so long as they can do their job (i.e. he has no problem with transpeople in the military.)

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I'm a history buff, and whilst I'd admit American history is not exactly my strong suit, I think it would be fair to say the American Dream has always been a little fuzzy, and more attainable for some within American society than others.
The idea of 'equality' is also pretty interesting. It was 1957 before all Native Americans were allowed to vote, for example.

I don't say this to belittle America. Far from it. It is basically exactly the same in my country.

I get what you mean about the American Dream being something to strive for, rather than something already attained. I just think you should be careful overstating what a utopian America looks like for it's various citizens, and make any assumptions of commonality apart from the usual motherhood statements about freedom and prosperity, and a 'fair go' or similar.

"I just think you should be careful overstating what a utopian America"

There is no such thing as a "utopia America", and why should I be careful saying transgender people deserve equality in America? Because bigots exist? Is that your argument? Sounds like a backwards point; I am not going to "be careful overstating" that all Americans deserve fair and equal treatment from our government and our laws.

"for it's various citizens"

I am not stating it for "various citizen", I am saying that is the American Spirit, and I don't care if there are people out there somewhere that may disagree with me. I don't validate my ethical beliefs in such a silly manner.

"make any assumptions of commonality"

I did not make any such assumption. You seem to think the American Dream is solely defined by popular view. I disagree with that notion, and claim no knowledge of how supportive the masses are of transgender equality. I have not looked at those numbers and I do not know what they are.

I pull my conclusion from actually being an American, from studying American culture, and studying American history. For the express purpose of answering this question, it is a question that has been on my mind since I was young. Now maybe someday I will decide to write something on it, but it is not going to be here is the limits of a forum debate. Now you may disagree with my point of view all you like, and that that fine, I claim nothing factual about this perception, as it cannot be established factually. However, I think the notion that the American Spirit is only dictated by "commonality" is naive.

 

[DavidFirth]

I don't have a problem with it if any citizen wants to serve in the Armed Forces, as a matter of fact I am happy people are willing to do so. But if their service is a hindrance then that does need to be taken into consideration. Anyway, I don't think a person should be banned from the military based on sexual preference. Physical impairments, yes, sexual preference, no.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why don't we let the furries and vampires in too?

I just googled this and apparently there are plenty of "furries" in the military. Like any fetish, kept private the military doesn't give a ****.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't mean to sound glib, but how many Americans would argue that keeping transgenders out is actually more in line with 'protecting the American way of life' than letting them in?

A lot of Americans are out of touch, misguided, ignorant, etc. (as evidenced by the recent presidential election). The values and virtues that America is supposed to represent are rights, liberty, equality, and justice.

 

[Akivah]

It is just a matter of time until people with views like his are in that 1%.

Thankfully people with views like yours are currently 1%.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Thankfully people with views like yours are currently 1%.

What views are those?

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm a history buff, and whilst I'd admit American history is not exactly my strong suit, I think it would be fair to say the American Dream has always been a little fuzzy, and more attainable for some within American society than others.
The idea of 'equality' is also pretty interesting. It was 1957 before all Native Americans were allowed to vote, for example.

I don't say this to belittle America. Far from it. It is basically exactly the same in my country.

I get what you mean about the American Dream being something to strive for, rather than something already attained. I just think you should be careful overstating what a utopian America looks like for it's various citizens, and make any assumptions of commonality apart from the usual motherhood statements about freedom and prosperity, and a 'fair go' or similar.

Well, there's definitely still a considerable difference between what America currently is and what America is supposed to be.